Or how their communications officer didn't know a word of Klingon...not like they're our biggest enemies. Seems like she should've picked up a word or two after working out there for 30 years.
5 Things Star Trek Fans Must Admit About The Film Franchise
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That's the single part of TUC that's basically unwatchable at this point.
Everything else about the movie carries you along, but that's a single scene for a single bad joke. Nick Meyer may have reined Shatner in, but somebody should have done the same to Meyer for that scene.
That's what you get when you try breeding THE HUNT FOR RED OCTOBER, THE MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE and STAR TREK.
The film had some moments, but that script needed another rewrite or several. And the film didn't have the budget required for the scope they were trying to go for. In the end, I didn't really feel the film was a nice cap to the adventures of the original crew.
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You're the best ship in the fleet for this - even though your CMO doesn't know a thing about Klingon anatomy, your communications officer doesn't know a word of Klingonese, your helmsman hasn't completed her background check, and a captain whose hatred of the Klingons has been a contentious issue for decades.
At the beginning of TUC, Sulu's Log entry states they have been cataloging gaseous anomalies or some such baloney but by the film ending the equipment being used to do those investigations have, despite the two ships never yet rendezvousing, been magically transferred to the Enterprise and is used to track gasses from the prototypes "tailpipe" in order to target the damn thing.
I still like the film, though. That was not his knees. Not everyone carries their genitals in the same place.
I still like the film, though. That was not his knees. Not everyone carries their genitals in the same place.
Perhaps.
Start of film, Sulu log:
End of film:
http://www.chakoteya.net/movies/movie6.html
I still gotta wonder why regular ships sensors cannot simply detect ionized gas, though.
Start of film, Sulu log:
End of film:
http://www.chakoteya.net/movies/movie6.html
I still gotta wonder why regular ships sensors cannot simply detect ionized gas, though.
If the budget can't be raised, I'd rather the filmmakers still attempt to be ambitious.
Yes, if they can analyse a planet's atmosphere from orbit....
Plot imposed ignorance and stupidity have long been a feature of the franchise.
Exactly. TFF's low budget wasn't the real problem. The idiotic script, godmoding Kirk and the absolutely despicable OOC treatment of the other characters were. I mean, Space! Evangelist shows up, says two words, and gets the entire ship to backstab the captain? Did they hate him so much? It wasn't mind-control because it didn't work on the main three, and it only didn't work on Bones and Spock because the actors refused to act out Shatner's original idea. Also, he wanted the Enterprise to literally meet God, iirc, and battle the actual devil. That's a headscratcher and a half. The script got a thousand re-writes and it still sucked horribly because a) Shatner went overboard with the Kirk-worship, and b) the entire premise made no sense at all.
I like some of the smaller character moments between the main three, but that's about it. This movie is ridiculous and should never have been made. These days I hate it more than I hate Insurrection and its in-your-face broken aesop, and that's saying a lot.
On a different note, I loved the trailer for Beyond simply because they don't just play Sabotage, but openly reference it, going "that's a great song, people, CAN YOU HEAR THE SONG"
. J.J., my man, you and I are both rabid Beastie Boys fans, aren't we? AWESOME. XD
This.
That, and they got too old too fast. In the Trek world, Kirk and crew are being put out to pasture at about the same age Picard was hitting his prime. Kirk was 60 in TUC. Picard was 59 when first given command of the Enterprise. I could never reconcile that in my mind, at least.
At the risk of turning this into another TFF thread... I don't know what you mean about "godmoding" Kirk, apart from managing to avoid getting zapped at the end of the movie. If anything, it was the opposite: his plan to rescue hostages went badly and he ended up prisoner on his own ship. I don't have a problem with the treatment of the other characters other than it was inappropriate to the drama; Doohan was always a brilliant comic actor, and the others frankly didn't deserve much better. Surok obviously WAS using mind control, and the big three managed to resist simply because they are so awesome.
The original plan was to have only Kirk resist because he's Just That Great, to have everyone backstab him and him having to rescue the universe or whatever by himself because only he could resist the brain-washing. We got a watered-down version of this in the actual movie, where literally everyone is convinced by Sybok's pain-taking antics inside of five minutes or so, and then Bones and Spock only change their minds again after Kirk gives Sybok his little speech. So it can't have been mind-control at all and it makes everyone else look really, really bad.
That's what I mean. It's insulting to every single character except Kirk - and Shatner's ego was driving the whole production.
I'm not telling anyone they can't like the movie - far be it from me. It is what it is, though. Do some research on the movie's production and all your illusions and rationalisations will be taken away. Trust me, I've been there. I used to like this shlock when I was a little kid. It's simply not a good film on any level, be it technical or narrative.
That's what I mean. It's insulting to every single character except Kirk - and Shatner's ego was driving the whole production.
I'm not telling anyone they can't like the movie - far be it from me. It is what it is, though. Do some research on the movie's production and all your illusions and rationalisations will be taken away. Trust me, I've been there. I used to like this shlock when I was a little kid. It's simply not a good film on any level, be it technical or narrative.
Well, that's not true. Have you forgotten Spock's speech?
"You are my brother, but you do not know me. I am not the outcast boy you left behind those many years ago. Since that time I found myself and my place and I know who I am. I cannot go with you."
TFF had great dialogue. Very worthy film. Some great scenes. The overall plot is fine and I'm liking how they thought outside of the box. Vulcans have powerful mind powers going on there and clearly the 'god-alien' used Sybok's as a conduit to bring them to were he was. As for the rebellious crew, Sulu wouldn't have interpreted his action as being malicious/disloyal against the captain but would've wanted to give him the faux peace that he benefitted from. And all the bigwigs stayed clearheaded -- although Shatner pushed hard for Spock to be disloyal which would've ruined the film. Nimoy refused that. I like the way Spock is completely flummoxed by this charismatic half-brother. What a contrast!
There's plenty of stupid scenes in this they didn't need to have OK but some powerful scenes makes the film very worthy overall.
There's plenty of stupid scenes in this they didn't need to have OK but some powerful scenes makes the film very worthy overall.
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If I remember correctly (and admittedly it's been a while), Sybok shows Spock his birth scene and Spock just stands there saying nothing. Then, after Kirk tells Sybok to take a hike, Sybok looks expectantly at Bones and Spock, and both refuse him, which is when Spock says that particular line.
Anyway, I don't like the movie for the reasons stated, but in the end, the validity and value of its narrative aspects are a pure matter of opinion. The technical side - the movie-making aspects, that is - is more objective and can, in this case, be safely panned (which its is - now, whether you care about the technical failings, that's another matter entirely). Everything about the production is plain terrible: cinematography, camera work, lighting, costumes, sets, effects, sound design etc. However, the story and characterisation are definitely a matter of taste and personal interpretation. You like it, awesome. You don't like it, well, that's just as valid. I actually think it's great when people see something good in a story that just made me angry. It encourages me to ponder whether my own opinion is malleable or not.
I don't think you can infer that, because Spock is silent, he agrees with Sybok until Kirk changes his mind.
Really?
I disagree. The whole "I need my pain" scene is visually beautiful and atmospheric. The costumes and sets are fine (Nimbus III is supposed to look like a shithole). I've never even noticed the sound design, so it can't be that bad. A lot of people list the soundtrack as one of their favourites.
The effects are famously problematic, particularly the ship shots. But there are actually a couple of nice shots in there (e.g. the Enterprise against the moon), and the effects do the job of telling the story. I mean, they are all at least on par with TOS, and there's nothing jarringly bad, e.g. mishandled perspective, shaking of picture elements, crude models.
Well, that's the thing - I like bits of it. TFF has huge problems, to do with inappropriate tone and plot holes, that mean it can't be called a "good" film. But when fans dislike the movie so much that they refuse to recognise any good elements, I feel I have to put the other point of view. This is the same reason some people have the impression I am a huge JJ fan.
EDIT: There's also the fondness one develops over time for loved ones who are flawed: relatives, friends, pets, scifi franchises.
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