5 Things Star Trek Fans Must Admit About The Film Franchise

[CommanderRaytas]

Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree. I think the production troubles this film faced showed glaringly (and sound design and soundtrack aren't the same thing) in the final product, but if you don't think so, you don't think so. I for one really like VOY and ENT, for example, even though I could list a million things deeply wrong with both shows off the top of my head. I think that the movie-making aspects of a production are important, but if a story entertains you despite technical flaws, then the film/show has done its job. TFF hasn't done that for me.

If you look at the J.J. Abrams films, you could make the opposite argument, as he is a very competent film-maker who knows all the tricks of the trade. Some people, however, dislike his movies on a purely emotional level because they couldn't connect with the story, which makes them more prone to see the mistakes in the films (and all movies make mistakes). I personally really like his style because he is an actor director and focusses much more on character and visceral emotional responses than plot. If that draws you in (and it does that to me), then the movie has done what it was supposed to. If it can't reach you on an emotional level, then all the film-making competence in the world (dynamic camera work, practical effects, hardly any shaky-cam in the action scenes, fast pacing, good cinematography and sound design, decent dialogue etc.) won't make you like it.

I guess that's why I don't forgive TFF's technical shortcomings, because it doesn't reach me on an emotional level. I could - from a film-making POV - tear the scene between the main three and Sybok apart, nitpick it to death and beyond, but that's not really the point (you can nitpick anything to death, even stuff you love). The point is that the issues the movie has matter to me because it doesn't affect my precious little feels, and therefore fails to entertain me. If a movie or show gives you any kind of entertainment value, then the little things it gets wrong don't matter as much. The effect they have on the final product are wholly dependent on your personal enjoyment as a viewer.

...and before someone accuses me of getting too off-topic: the Cracked article was stupid and the trailer for Beyond made me go all OH FUCK YEAH AWESOME SABOTAGE WOOOOOO! * clears throat *

 

[shapeshifter]

TFF has its flaws but I like it anyway, too.

One of my favorite episodes of Enterprise, "Fusion", (S1 Ep 7) serves up some tasty continuity porn with TFF by introducing other Vulcan's dabbling in dangerous, forbidden experiments with emotions.

Like Sybok, they too were cast out of society for believing emotions should be embraced, not purged. A fallacy Sybok eventually paid with his life for believing.

 

[Mudd]

TFF is not just a bad Trek movie. It's a bad movie.

 

[TRON JA307020]

I don't see a fundamental change between the Abrams films and The Original Series.

I see plenty of changes. The one big basic change is no more Kirk, Spock and McCoy as the centerpiece. Its not Kirk, Spock and Uhura. McCoy has become a side character. As the article states the producers decided to go with the love triangle between Kirk, Spock and Uhura. Its not nearly as interesting at the original trio.

 

[BillJ]

I see plenty of changes. The one big basic change is no more Kirk, Spock and McCoy as the centerpiece. Its not Kirk, Spock and Uhura. McCoy has become a side character. As the article states the producers decided to go with the love triangle between Kirk, Spock and Uhura. Its not nearly as interesting at the original trio.

You're right. They are no longer cramming McCoy onto the bridge and on missions that he has no reason for going. I like McCoy, but I don't mind the change. Bout time the three white guys didn't represent the Federation everywhere they went.

 

[JKM]

I see plenty of changes. The one big basic change is no more Kirk, Spock and McCoy as the centerpiece. Its not Kirk, Spock and Uhura. McCoy has become a side character. As the article states the producers decided to go with the love triangle between Kirk, Spock and Uhura. Its not nearly as interesting at the original trio.

Love triangle? Do you mean that in the Kirk wants Nyota sense or the Kirk wants Spock sense? I can see the former in 09 movie and latter in STID. I haven't really seen any triangle bits since the 09 film where Kirk was trying to figure out Nyota's name, but I always got the sense that was more of a game for him after their first meeting.
I'm hoping (foolishly I'm sure) that one of the things Lin is ignoring in beyond is the Spock/Nyota dynamic.
I'd love to see more McCoy, Karl plays such a great McCoy.

 

[TRON JA307020]

You're right. They are no longer cramming McCoy onto the bridge and on missions that he has no reason for going. I like McCoy, but I don't mind the change. Bout time the three white guys didn't represent the Federation everywhere they went.

Actually Spocks complexion is off a bit also in the films. His skin had more of a yellowish tint in TOS as opposed to white in the movies. Hes also a half Vulcan so at least he isn't fully human. I miss the Spock, Kirk and McCoy Dynamic. Uhura just doesn't do it for me. The big discussion all three had in STID was on the shuttle when Uhura was complaining about Spock not caring if he died. It was more of a lovers spat. It wasn't nearly as engaging as some of the conversations we got in TOS with the big three.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

I was content to lurk this thread until something better came along, but:

Actually Spocks complexion is off a bit also in the films. His skin had more of a yellowish tint in TOS as opposed to white in the movies.

I hadn't noticed that before. In fact, I am extremely grateful to you for actually pointing this out. I had almost allowed myself to forget how completely inane and nitpicky Star Trek fandom really was, but in those two sentences you have PERFECTLY encapsulated the animus of the Star Trek fan community at its absolute finest.

Screw it. I'm out. ALL THE WAY OUT, you understand?

 

[Malaika]

Crazy Eddie, I think Pubert was arguing (in reply to Billj) that Spock wasn't a white guy ^ Between them and Dales in the other thread I can't believe how clueless and oblivious some trek fans can SOUND..

As for the big 3, I love that tos Mccoy's xenophobic attacks on Spock have depth and are interesting by default and it's just him 'challenging Spock human side', yet Uhura (and Kirk) doing that in the reboot minus the racist part, and with the added context of her being someone who actually has a relationship with the guy (and also someone who knows that Spock does have feelings), is bad and useless.
I'm not surprised that people still don't get why the 'lovers spat' was written in the first place, and why it was important for Spock's character and for the continuity of the movies. I guess people would find it realistic for them to pretend that the Vulcan diaspora had never happened and that it has no effects on the psychology of one of the main characters (and by realistic consequence, on the person who is close to him the most).
------

As for the link, whiny article indeed. I wanted to stop to read when I got to 'The Reboots Have About As Much Understanding And Respect For Its Fans As The Star Wars Prequels'

there are indeed some similarities between the star wars fans who hate the prequel movies and the star trek fans that hate the reboot (and ANY trek that isn't tos) and entitlement is surely one of them.
Please define what it means 'respect' the fans because I get a feeling that 'respect the fans' for some means making a movie just for them and that panders to them, which is not only pretentious but quite surrealistic for hollywood. The reboot unlike the prequel movies isn't even a real prequel since it's set in another reality. Like it? ok. Don't like it? ok. No one forced trek fans to watch it and like it.
And a lot of trek fans actually love these movies so I'm really sick and tired of these articles talking on the behalf of the 'fans' universally and putting all of us in the same box of those who non stop complain about the new movies not being 'trek'.
I really don't get what some expected the reboot to be. A carbon copy of tos with more modern special effects? What is people's definition of remake or reboot?

as for the 'triangle', if you consider THAT a triangle please watch Lost (originally created by JJ and then handled - badly - by Lindelof) to get an idea of what an actual triangle and soap opera really is. The reboot essentially contradicted a number of tropes, the triangle thing being one (the fact the hero doesn't get the girl is another. The fact that the hero' sidekick friend and nerdy guy gets the girl instead is also another)

 

[Dales]

You're right. They are no longer cramming McCoy onto the bridge and on missions that he has no reason for going. I like McCoy, but I don't mind the change. Bout time the three white guys didn't represent the Federation everywhere they went.

I see plenty of changes. The one big basic change is no more Kirk, Spock and McCoy as the centerpiece. Its not Kirk, Spock and Uhura. McCoy has become a side character. As the article states the producers decided to go with the love triangle between Kirk, Spock and Uhura. Its not nearly as interesting at the original trio.

I never thought it was a love triangle since uhura showed no interest in kirk and kirk was in lust with her not ion love with her. Spock genuinely semed to care about her and her to him.
to me it just seems the writers are not experienced in handling an ensemble cast like the way joss whedon did in Avengers.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I never thought it was a love triangle since uhura showed no interest in kirk and kirk was in lust with her not ion love with her. Spock genuinely semed to care about her and her to him.
to me it just seems the writers are not experienced in handling an ensemble cast like the way joss whedon did in Avengers.

They've done a good job of giving the secondary characters bits to do. On the same level as Hawkeye or Black Widow in the Avengers films

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

They've done a good job of giving the secondary characters bits to do. On the same level as Hawkeye or Black Widow in the Avengers films

Exactly.

Sulu, Chekov, Scotty and Uhura have more to do in these last two movies than they ever did in any of the original TOS movies. More than that, they've had more moments to shine than in TOS or those 70s/80s/90s movies.

 

[fireproof78]

Exactly.

Sulu, Chekov, Scotty and Uhura have more to do in these last two movies than they ever did in any of the original TOS movies. More than that, they've had more moments to shine than in TOS or those 70s/80s/90s movies.

Yes. One of the reasons I enjoy both films so much is that each characters have their moments to shine, especially in 09, but STID had them too. They felt like characters and a part of the crew, contributing to the overall mission.

That's some good ensemble work, and I expect Lin to do an even better job.

 

[CommanderRaytas]

It's why I enjoy J.J. Abrams's type of film-making as a whole: he prioritises characterisation over plot, which is something I love. It's also the reason the not-so-great aspects of STID don't bother me, because the characterisation is good and compelling.

 

[shapeshifter]

Characterizations was one of the first things that grabbed me about TOS. At the time, I couldn't remember ever seeing anything like it before. These people popped off the screen, and it wasn't just because of all bright colors.

 

[TRON JA307020]

Characterizations was one of the first things that grabbed me about TOS. At the time, I couldn't remember ever seeing anything like it before. These people popped off the screen, and it wasn't just because of all bright colors.

Exactly. The show was made in the 1960s but several storylines could easily trump what we have seen in NutTrek. The stories had more depth.
Also it looks like in STB we are going to see the Enterprise get nearly destroyed for yet a third time or maybe fully destroyed. We have never seen the NuTrek Enterprise put up a good fight. At least in TWOK we saw what the Enterprise could do in a battle. So far all we have seen in NuTrek is the Enterprise getting its butt kicked.

 

[eyeresist]

The one big basic change is no more Kirk, Spock and McCoy as the centerpiece. Its not Kirk, Spock and Uhura. McCoy has become a side character. As the article states the producers decided to go with the love triangle between Kirk, Spock and Uhura. Its not nearly as interesting at the original trio.

The word is that Spock and McCoy will be teamed for much of the movie, so it looks like things may be moving in the direction you want.

I think that the movie-making aspects of a production are important, but if a story entertains you despite technical flaws, then the film/show has done its job. TFF hasn't done that for me.

I think TFF's fatal flaw is the smirking humour which constantly undercuts the drama. If I did a fan edit of it, I would remove almost every joke and every quizzical reaction shot that isn't essential to the story. The elevator shaft scene would be GONE. This would make the movie much more watchable (and possibly half its current length).

 

[BillJ]

At least in TWOK we saw what the Enterprise could do in a battle. So far all we have seen in NuTrek is the Enterprise getting its butt kicked.

Actually, I don't think we've ever saw the refit in battle without first getting beat up, except maybe towards the end of The Undiscovered Country? Even then, it only took a couple of Klingon torpedoes to knock her down several notches and she would've been cooked if the Excelsior hadn't shown up and bought Kirk time.

 

[TRON JA307020]

The word is that Spock and McCoy will be teamed for much of the movie, so it looks like things may be moving in the direction you want.



I think TFF's fatal flaw is the smirking humour which constantly undercuts the drama. If I did a fan edit of it, I would remove almost every joke and every quizzical reaction shot that isn't essential to the story. The elevator shaft scene would be GONE. This would make the movie much more watchable (and possibly half its current length).

Yeah hopefully the Spock/McCoy team up will be more than a few seconds.


TFF was the worst TOS movie in my opinion. The effects were poor for even 1989 and Shatner put way to much humor in it. The humor didn't flow and come naturally to the situations it was to forced. Thankfully the series ended with TUC which ended the run on a respectable note( I didn't like the Spock mind rape scene though. That was poorly done and completely out of character for spock.)

 

[BillJ]

The effects were poor for even 1989 and Shatner put way to much humor in it. The humor didn't flow and come naturally to the situations it was to forced.

I believe that came down from Paramount due to the crossover success of The Voyage Home.