In which episode did Kirk say that he was in charge of the lives of 430 crewmen?
430 crew?
- Thread starter Otto von Grunwa
- Start date
Good question for all you obsessive Trek geeks out there. (You know who you are.)
After "The Cage" (in which Capt. Pike says he's "tired of being responsible for 203 lives"), the ship's complement was canonically expanded to 430. In "The Squire of Gothos," Kirk says, "There are 400 men and women aboard that ship." He makes a reference to "over 400 guys" in "A Piece of the Action."
But was the number 430 specifically mentioned in any episode?
After "The Cage" (in which Capt. Pike says he's "tired of being responsible for 203 lives"), the ship's complement was canonically expanded to 430. In "The Squire of Gothos," Kirk says, "There are 400 men and women aboard that ship." He makes a reference to "over 400 guys" in "A Piece of the Action."
But was the number 430 specifically mentioned in any episode?
A crew of 2,000 seems more realistic. 
Here's a trick: Go to Google Advanced Search, enter your search term in the appropriate box, and where it says "Search within a site or domain," enter www.chakoteya.net/StarTrek/, which contains transcripts of every TOS and TAS episode. (Or leave out the part after the / to search the transcripts of all the series.) I find references to a crew complement of 430 in:
"Shore Leave"
"Tomorrow is Yesterday"
"Who Mourns for Adonais?"
"And the Children Shall Lead"
"The Mark of Gideon"
"The Lights of Zetar"
"The Ultimate Computer"
"The Counter-Clock Incident"
Plus numerous other references to "four hundred" or "over four hundred."
"Shore Leave"
"Tomorrow is Yesterday"
"Who Mourns for Adonais?"
"And the Children Shall Lead"
"The Mark of Gideon"
"The Lights of Zetar"
"The Ultimate Computer"
"The Counter-Clock Incident"
Plus numerous other references to "four hundred" or "over four hundred."
They really crammed them into those old Constitution-class ships, didn't they? 
They doubled the crew complement of the ship when they doubled the official size of the vessel. It was originally about 500 feet long.
Considering the size of the ship I don't think 430 is really that much. I think they made it look like a lot with those shots of busy corridors, but I suspect there would actually be a lot of room. Consider a modern carrier is about the same size overall and carries a crew of thousands. Modern destroyers and cruisers are smaller that the TOS E and their crews are in the hundreds if I'm not mistaken.They really crammed them into those old Constitution-class ships, didn't they?
Any naval experts around here to clarify this issue?
darkwing_duck1
Vice Admiral
Considering the size of the ship I don't think 430 is really that much. I think they made it look like a lot with those shots of busy corridors, but I suspect there would actually be a lot of room. Consider a modern carrier is about the same size overall and carries a crew of thousands. Modern destroyers and cruisers are smaller that the TOS E and their crews are in the hundreds if I'm not mistaken.They really crammed them into those old Constitution-class ships, didn't they?
Consider that you would need a significant amount of storage for a crew of that size for a 5 year mission (food, water, fuel, oxygen, etc).
I've always been of the opinion that Starfleet vessels generally has relatively low crew complements in case they are needed to transport much larger groups of people if necessary (such as during planetary evacuations or evacuations from another vessel of comparative size). Special missions might also require ships to take on additional crew personnel that might even have doubled or tripled its normal crew complement for limited periods of time as well, IMO.
Starfleet could have a policy that it's better to have extra space and not need it than to need extra space and not have it.
Starfleet could have a policy that it's better to have extra space and not need it than to need extra space and not have it.
If you can find it watch "Day of the Dove"! In that episode Scotty tells Kirk that 392 crew members are trapped below decks, leaving only 38 to fight the Klingons which numbered 38 survivors from Kang's ship.
James
James
IIRC, 504 feet, to be exact.
Admiral Shran was quoting a line from the DS9 ep “Trials and Tribble-ations.” But you knew that, right?Considering the size of the ship I don't think 430 is really that much. I think they made it look like a lot with those shots of busy corridors, but I suspect there would actually be a lot of room. Consider a modern carrier is about the same size overall and carries a crew of thousands. Modern destroyers and cruisers are smaller that the TOS E and their crews are in the hundreds if I'm not mistaken.They really crammed them into those old Constitution-class ships, didn't they?
Well, the TOS Enterprise SETS sure looked awfully spacious. The crew cabins (all redresses of Kirk's quarters) looked pretty roomy indeed, and the ship's passageways were at least twice as wide as they needed to be. Of course, the sets had to accommodate the practical necessities of TV film production.
Also consider that, although the Enterprise is roughly 1000 feet long (okay, canonically 947 feet), it's a dispersed structure and the twin nacelles contain propulsion machinery only. Has anyone actually calculated the combined volume of the saucer, neck pylon and secondary hull? I'm sure it's a small fraction of the space available for working, living, sleeping and storage on a modern carrier or even a smaller vessel like a destroyer or cruiser.
Anyway, Franz Joseph's blueprints managed to squeeze in accommodations for some number over the official 430 crewmembers, though I can't recall the exact figure.
Admiral Shran was quoting a line from the DS9 ep “Trials and Tribble-ations.” But you knew that, right?Considering the size of the ship I don't think 430 is really that much. I think they made it look like a lot with those shots of busy corridors, but I suspect there would actually be a lot of room. Consider a modern carrier is about the same size overall and carries a crew of thousands. Modern destroyers and cruisers are smaller that the TOS E and their crews are in the hundreds if I'm not mistaken.They really crammed them into those old Constitution-class ships, didn't they?
That I was
but I like where it led to.I like to think the ship wasn't all that crowded, but only appeared so based on what we've seen of the ship, which I would suspect is very little.
Crew of the USS Enterprise, CVN-65:
Complement:
5,828 (maximum)
Ship's company: 3,000 (2,700 Sailors, 150 Chiefs, 150 Officers)
Air wing: 1,800 (250 Pilots, and 1,550 Support personnel)
Once again, I highly recommend the PBS documentary miniseries Carrier * for those wanting an in-depth, multifaceted view of life on a USN aircraft carrier.
*Links to all 10 episodes online at Hulu.com.
Very interesting! You know, in the same proportions, the Enterprise would have only 22 officers and 22 chiefs. Allowing for 3 rotations, department heads, and the bridge crew, would anybody hazard a guess who those 22 officers might be?
They're all officers, according to Roddenberry.
Which kinda stands to reason. Future tech means more stuff is automated, so there's less need for people to do the grunt work. So at the very least, it seems the ratio of officers to enlisted would be higher.
There were certainly enlisted people in TOS, though -- plenty of characters called "Yeoman" or "Crewman" or "Specialist" or "Technician." I think Roddenberry's "They're all officers" idea was one of the many revisionist ideas he developed about Trek later in life.
There were certainly enlisted people in TOS, though -- plenty of characters called "Yeoman" or "Crewman" or "Specialist" or "Technician." I think Roddenberry's "They're all officers" idea was one of the many revisionist ideas he developed about Trek later in life.
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