24: No Iranian Bad guys on TV allowed?

[RobertScorpio]

24 has no problem showing ruthless Russian mobsters killing their sons. They also have no problem with showing Jack being a prisoner in China for a year or so; in essence, the Russians are bad...the Chinese are Bad. Or, at least, aspects of their governments can be bad. Ours too; how many times does 24 have some rigth wing nutjob as one of the bad guys. (John Voight from last season for example. Or bad VPs from the past.)

But never on this show, as long as I can remember, have any of the terrorist, or bad guys with 'middle east' appearences, ever been revealed to be....drum roll....Iranians. Not to say that Iranians are all bad people, they aren't. But no one can watch 24 and not come away with the perception that some of these plots over the years have been 'inspired' by Iranian issues/events.

Why couldn't the fictious country this season be...Iran? Why not have this new 'brave leader who is willing to meet us half way' be the President of Iran? This season we have Russian mobsters trading nuclear 'rods' back and forth, right here on our own soil, and this is more realistic than some moderate Iranian be portrayed?

Iranians just can't be the bad guys, either can the Taliban (again, I can think of no "bad guy" elements being revealed to be Taliban.) And yet, its okay to make stereotypical bad guys out of the Russians...the Chinese...the North Koreans...the Columbian Drug Lords. Yes, its just a show of fiction. But if thats the case, then why name Russians/Chinese straight up?

Rob

 

[Trekker4747]

Yeah, the show has always danced around Iranian, or other middle eastern, terrorists. I think in season four they were to as being from "Central Asia" or something silly like that.

Not sure why this is the case, I suppose the evil-Russian is more dug into pop-culture to the point of being such a stereotype no one buys it. But an evil-Iranian would just further solidfy a negative stereotype.

 

[RobertScorpio]

Yeah, the show has always danced around Iranian, or other middle eastern, terrorists. I think in season four they were to as being from "Central Asia" or something silly like that.

Not sure why this is the case, I suppose the evil-Russian is more dug into pop-culture to the point of being such a stereotype no one buys it. But an evil-Iranian would just further solidfy a negative stereotype.

I think its because of political pressure not to do so. This season's leader, with his moderate attempts at human rights, could have, and should have, been Iranian. I know he seems to be sliding backwards, but I think eventually, he might get back on the right track after 'soul searching."

I don't even think IRAN is a nation in 24's world, come to think of it. I don't think I have ever heard the nation even mentioned. I guess the people of India have taken over that part of the world in this universe. Huh?

Rob

 

[Trekker4747]

Yeah, the show has always danced around Iranian, or other middle eastern, terrorists. I think in season four they were to as being from "Central Asia" or something silly like that.

Not sure why this is the case, I suppose the evil-Russian is more dug into pop-culture to the point of being such a stereotype no one buys it. But an evil-Iranian would just further solidfy a negative stereotype.

I think its because of political pressure not to do so. This season's leader, with his moderate attempts at human rights, could have, and should have, been Iranian. I know he seems to be sliding backwards, but I think eventually, he might get back on the right track after 'soul searching."

I don't even think IRAN is a nation in 24's world, come to think of it. I don't think I have ever heard the nation even mentioned. I guess the people of India have taken over that part of the world in this universe. Huh?

Rob

In 2015 India has taken over the Middle East.

Geography... OF THE FUTURE!!!



I think it's just a matter of not offending the wrong people or not establishing negative stereotypes that are strongly believed by viewers.

 

[Ensign_Redshirt]

Reminds me a bit of the original "Mission: Impossible" from the 1960s.

Occassionally, real-life nations were referenced on the show. For example, it was explicitly mentioned in Nazi episodes that the bad guys originated from Germany. However, when a episode was set in a Communist country, they always used a fictional one like "Eastern European People's Republic" etc. I think the Soviet Union or Russia wasn't even mentioned once on the show.

Similar examples are the early James Bond movies, in which the Soviets from the novels were usually replaced by the SPECTRE organization for the movie adaptation.

There seems to be a rule that you can't use a current real-life "enemy"... at least not explicitly. During the 1960s, you could use Communists, but not Russians. Nowadays, you can use Islamists, but not Iranians.

 

[Hermiod]

This is nothing new - they were dancing around the issue in season two, referring to the unnamed trio of Middle Eastern countries who had supposedly sponsored the attempt to detonate a nuke on American soil.

Then they made up a fictional African country, Sangala, last season as well.

 

[Harvey]

Yeah, they had no problem making up a fictional African country last season. At least they finally named (even if it was a fictional name) the middle eastern country this season. I love season two, but the theatrics it goes through not to name the three countries the US is considering attacking is hilarious.

 

[RobertScorpio]

This is nothing new - they were dancing around the issue in season two, referring to the unnamed trio of Middle Eastern countries who had supposedly sponsored the attempt to detonate a nuke on American soil.

Then they made up a fictional African country, Sangala, last season as well.

and yet they have no problem 'naming' the Russians or Chinese as bad guys. Its comical.

Rob

 

[Aragorn]

It's no different than the producer who suggested that the Middle Eastern terrorists in a Vince Flynn novel be changed to Filipino for the movie.

Or the Muslim extremists completely removed from The Sum of All Fears movie in favor of the well-known and serious real-world threat of Neo-Nazis.

"This is Jack Bauer. I need to talk to the President now! Mormon terrorists have taken over Fort Knox!"

 

[Hermiod]

This is nothing new - they were dancing around the issue in season two, referring to the unnamed trio of Middle Eastern countries who had supposedly sponsored the attempt to detonate a nuke on American soil.

Then they made up a fictional African country, Sangala, last season as well.

and yet they have no problem 'naming' the Russians or Chinese as bad guys. Its comical.

Rob

The only actual, state sponsored villain in 24 was Cheng Zhi.

 

[Aragorn]

NCIS has no problems depicting Middle Eastern extremists or sleeper cells or mentioning bin Laden since their show reflects the present. Of course, their show also depicts NCIS being on the same playing field as the CIA or FBI or NSA, which would be like the coast guard having nuclear submarines and stealth bombers.

 

[Trekker4747]

This is nothing new - they were dancing around the issue in season two, referring to the unnamed trio of Middle Eastern countries who had supposedly sponsored the attempt to detonate a nuke on American soil.

Then they made up a fictional African country, Sangala, last season as well.

and yet they have no problem 'naming' the Russians or Chinese as bad guys. Its comical.

Rob

Because China and Russia are no longer our real world "bad guys" (at least not as much as they once were.) The extremity of potraying them a certain evil way is now so over-the-top that no possible "slander" can occur.

But, Mid-East nations are now our present bad guys so we have to tip-toe around potraying them a certain way or out-right naming their origins to prevent a "guilt by association" reaction.

As said up thread during the Cold War we danced around Russian potrayals for mostly the same reasons. Not painting the present bad guys with too broad a brush.

 

[Captaindemotion]

"This is Jack Bauer. I need to talk to the President now! Mormon terrorists have taken over Fort Knox!"

They need the gold to pay for all those multiple weddings.

 

[RobertScorpio]

This is nothing new - they were dancing around the issue in season two, referring to the unnamed trio of Middle Eastern countries who had supposedly sponsored the attempt to detonate a nuke on American soil.

Then they made up a fictional African country, Sangala, last season as well.

and yet they have no problem 'naming' the Russians or Chinese as bad guys. Its comical.

Rob

Because China and Russia are no longer our real world "bad guys" (at least not as much as they once were.) The extremity of potraying them a certain evil way is now so over-the-top that no possible "slander" can occur.

But, Mid-East nations are now our present bad guys so we have to tip-toe around potraying them a certain way or out-right naming their origins to prevent a "guilt by association" reaction.

As said up thread during the Cold War we danced around Russian potrayals for mostly the same reasons. Not painting the present bad guys with too broad a brush.

True; but that isn't the question here. Our government isn't making these movies, hollywood is. If 24 wanted to use Iran as bad guys are you saying that the network would say no? Would the government pressure the network to say no?

But you are right; it has happened before. Before "Nixon went to China", Wofat, McGarrett's arch nemesis, was a Red Chinese agent. According to James McCarther, Danno, the producers of FIVE-0 were asked to tone down the Wofat/China connection. And sure enough, Wofat was later made out to be a free lancing agent, no longer connected with China.

Rob

 

[Trekker4747]

True; but that isn't the question here. Our government isn't making these movies, hollywood is. If 24 wanted to use Iran as bad guys are you saying that the network would say no? Would the government pressure the network to say no?

Well the government can't pressure the networks to do anything, that would violate the First Amendment.

It seems Hollywood writers just try and to not piss people off on their own, probably to keep viewership. Enough people protested 24 during its fourth season with all of the Middle Eastern potrayals they did.

 

[RobertScorpio]

True; but that isn't the question here. Our government isn't making these movies, hollywood is. If 24 wanted to use Iran as bad guys are you saying that the network would say no? Would the government pressure the network to say no?

Well the government can't pressure the networks to do anything, that would violate the First Amendment.

It seems Hollywood writers just try and to not piss people off on their own, probably to keep viewership. Enough people protested 24 during its fourth season with all of the Middle Eastern potrayals they did.

Portrayals of non-existing middle east countries? I think if the bad guys from this season were Iranians, and named as such, or last years terrorist were named a taliban, it may have gotten more press and New York's viewership of 24 would have been higher than it is now.

Rob

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

The simpler reason for doing this is to protect against a movie or TV series having one of its plot lines overtaken by real world events in some way that's distracting. These things are planned and filmed months or years in advance of screening or airing.

 

[Harvey]

^^
Which sort of happened during season two, actually. But Dennis is right. Since 24 airs an entire season over the course of 18 weeks without interruption, filming begins a number of month ahead of when the season airs, and who knows where world events could go in the meantime.

On the other hand, Spooks has never had a problem involving real-world countries and events in its storytelling, which is probably why it's a far superior programme.

 

[Marc]

Nothing new to this.

With the exception of when they directly referred to Middle Eastern event such as Israeli and Palestinians, The West Wing have a fictional Islamic nation as a bad guy.

Hell even the British did it 25 years ago with Kumran in Yes Prime Minister.

Plus I think using fictiious places gives the writers more flexibility.

 

[Harvey]

The West Wing did use Qumar on a few occasions, which Aaron Sorkin is on record as regretting. On most other occasions, it used real countries.