2166 According to Spock

[Anwar]

It was shown that Earth was the weakest of all the Fed Founders, so if the war was something Earth could win all on its own then it's not a war worthy of the Federation Founding. And if it WAS such a major war, then it makes more sense all the Founding races were involved. Spock did mention "allies" in the war.

 

[muzzleflash]

It seems like it wasn't a war Earth could win on its own, considering the likelihood that the war ended without victory on either side.

There's also the possibility that the Romulans put an end to the war out of fear that Earth's allies would become involved. Thus, the war ended before the Romulans could execute any full scale assault on Earth territories, if that was even their goal in the first place. Perhaps they simply wanted to cripple, but not completely obliterate, Earth.

 

[Anwar]

The way BoT went, it seems the Romulans were the losing ones. After all, the Zone was supposed to keep them isolated to their own home system while the zone definately doesn't do the same to Earth.

 

[Nerys Myk]

My guess is that the Romulan reputation for being treacherous and cruel might have stemmed from their behevior in the war. Especially if it started with a sneak attack on undefended colony worlds. And given the tactics used in BOT, that is likely.

 

[muzzleflash]

The way BoT went, it seems the Romulans were the losing ones. After all, the Zone was supposed to keep them isolated to their own home system while the zone definately doesn't do the same to Earth.

If you take Kirk's dialogue literally yes, but I interpreted that in more of a metaphorical/dramatic sense.

Besides, how could the Romulans build an empire if they were restricted to their own star system?

 

[Anwar]

Easy, the writers disregarded some of what was said in BoT because they figured having the Romulans as more than guys stuck to one world would be cool.

The Romulan NZ was supposed to be a shout-out to the Kzinti punishment in Larry Nivens' Known Space stories: After being defeated repeatedly by humans, the Kzin were confined to their home system and not allowed out.

Later on, they changed it so that the NZ wasn't that restrictive (how it's supposed to work in 3-D space is hard to imagine, they must have like HUNDREDS of outposts watching all around the sphere if it was supposed to box the Romulans in).

 

[pookha]

The way BoT went, it seems the Romulans were the losing ones. After all, the Zone was supposed to keep them isolated to their own home system while the zone definately doesn't do the same to Earth.

the neutral zone dosnt keep the romulans just in their own home system.
it is rather more like a no man's land between their area of influence and the federation.

even in balance of terror we get the feeling that the romulan empire probably is very vast on its own.

we learn the romulans have been busy off fighting/ conquering ? in other parts of space.


as for the war..
my guess would be at first it was mostly just earth but gradually the other founding members got involved.
possibly at first just with support but finally entering into battle.

the battle of cheron may have been the result of a combined fleet action.
but if the losses were great on both sides one could see both would agree to the treaty.

i liked a lot of enterprise was doing with romulans trying to spread distrust among the different species.
and a league of nations type organization that seems to be headed down the same path.

 

[Saquist]

The way BoT went, it seems the Romulans were the losing ones. After all, the Zone was supposed to keep them isolated to their own home system while the zone definately doesn't do the same to Earth.

Considering the tech of the Romulans coming into BoT it doesn't seem they won....

They stayed communist and when they realized they Federation had far surpassed them they started buy Klingon technology.

 

[pookha]

as for the cloak in bot spock said the theory was possibly the energy needed was an obstacle.
in minefield indeed it seemed the romulans were having issues with the cloaks on the ships.
they kept on losing the cloak without rhyme or reason.

and there are all kinds of reasons why something like a cloaked possible enemy ship would have been made an official secret.

by the way it is interesting in bot how the enterprise is able to track the romulan ship even when it is cloaked.

as for the romulans were not seen..
who knows.
it is possible some were seen and among a few the connection between the romulans and vulcans made,.
but due to polics of building and keeping an alliance agreements were made to keep things quiet.

..
as far as klingoin tech..
as far as the show seems to be concerned the romulans didnt get klingon tech until post balance of terror.
enterprise incident refers to it as something recent.
because the klingons didnt have anything like the romulan plasma weapon nor cloaking technology .
romulan society is more imperialistic then communist.

 

[Anwar]

Didn't Kirk say in BoT that the Neutral Zone was supposed to isolate the Romulan Homeworld(s) from the rest of the galaxy? I think they WERE supposed to just be stuck in their home system for that episode but later on they changed their minds and gave them an empire.

 

[muzzleflash]

He didn't say that specifically, no.

 

[Nerys Myk]

The way BoT went, it seems the Romulans were the losing ones. After all, the Zone was supposed to keep them isolated to their own home system while the zone definately doesn't do the same to Earth.

Considering the tech of the Romulans coming into BoT it doesn't seem they won....

They stayed communist and when they realized they Federation had far surpassed them they started buy Klingon technology.

Say what?

 

[Mytran]

I think the "communist" line is a jokey reference to how all the USA's enemies in the 1960s were "filthy commies". The Romulans do seem insular, however.

Regarding the NZ line:

Captain's Log, stardate 1709.2. Patrolling outposts guarding the neutral zone between planets Romulus and Remus and the rest of the galaxy, received emergency call from outpost 4. The U.S.S. Enterprise is moving to investigate and assist.

Although Kirk refers to just the planets, the map that Spock uses later clearly demarks the area as "Romulan Star Empire".

 

[Saquist]

Didn't Kirk say in BoT that the Neutral Zone was supposed to isolate the Romulan Homeworld(s) from the rest of the galaxy? I think they WERE supposed to just be stuck in their home system for that episode but later on they changed their minds and gave them an empire.

I personally don't recall anything along those lines.

 

[Timo]

Sisko also implied the Romulan War led to an attack on Earth itself

Where?

In "Homefront", he says the Jem'Hadar way of total war has not been seen on Earth since the founding of the UFP. But that need not relate to the Romulans in any way. And we now have other instances of total war on Earth in that timeframe - the Xindi attack on the Caribbean would fit that bill nicely.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Yug]

While I'm not sure how vast the Neutral Zone is, it does seem to be more like the old Berlin wall. Only sectoring out where Romulan and Federation space meets. The Romulans have had dealings with the Klingons and other races since the Zone went up, even during TOS. So that seems to infer that no Zone exist between Romulan space and Klingon space. I'm also guessing that it's not limited to the Rommies home system and encompasses a pre war Romulan Star Empire and possibly beyond, even perhaps,to the edge of their part of the galaxy. Who knows how big Romulan territory was before the war, or if it was able to expand, away from Federation space, since.

 

[Anwar]

Yeah, I'm just saying that for 3-D space the Neutral Zone would have to be MASSIVE, and rather ineffectual if it was just some "wall" in space (eventually, either the Feds or Romulans would've expanded enough "downwards" or "upwards" to get past the Neutral Zone). It would have to be more like a Sphere to really encompass an area of space and from what we know about how big the Romulan Empire is, it would have to be one BIG sphere that would be nearly impossible to monitor.

And Timo, you're right that the Xindi attack could've been what Sisko was referring to.

 

[Saquist]

Yeah, I'm just saying that for 3-D space the Neutral Zone would have to be MASSIVE, and rather ineffectual if it was just some "wall" in space (eventually, either the Feds or Romulans would've expanded enough "downwards" or "upwards" to get past the Neutral Zone). It would have to be more like a Sphere to really encompass an area of space and from what we know about how big the Romulan Empire is, it would have to be one BIG sphere that would be nearly impossible to monitor.

I concur the Galaxy's disk is 1,000 light years thick, but the wall would be better than the envelope.

 

[Anwar]

But a "Wall" in space would only watch one small patch in space that eventually the Romulans would just expand around from the bottom, top, or the sides.

 

[muzzleflash]

Well assuming said "wall" was big enough, it may be a while before they are able to expand past it.

The problem with space and FTL travel is that you can't really defend borders. What's to stop an entire fleet from warping into your planet's orbit from any given direction and moving faster than you can stop or detect them?