2014 MLB Season: How Many Pitchers Will Die For Our Sins?

[Scout101]

Not even super funny the first time, just because he went with SO MUCH and it was so blatant. Have enough respect for the game and the umpires to at least hide it a little like everyone else that does it. That's why suntan lotion is the more popular choice; it's generally clear.

Feels kinda odd calling him out for cheating when it's pretty established everyone does something there to get an edge, but he's the idiot that rubbed it in people's faces two starts against the Sox in a row. Farrell warned him in advance that they'd be looking for it, so don't do it or hide it better, and the moron comes out with pinetar war paint

Kinda the equivalent of speeding on the highway. If you're doing 75 in a 65 like everyone else, it's all good. No one's really going to have any problems, even though you're breaking the rules. The idiot swerving around cars while doing 100, though, you HAVE to pull over. Forcing their hand there.

Precedent says 8 game suspension. Potential to find another game or two added maybe just because of how stupid he was, the attention that was already on him for it, and that MLB came to talk to the Yankees specifically about this after his last start. Can't pretend he didn't know, it was an accident, or anything else. And then by not even hiding it, it's flipping MLB off. Minor leagues have an automatic 10 game ban, wouldn't be shocked if Pineada got that due to the 2nd time in a row, and after the warning (both by MLB and the Red Sox).

 

[Scout101]

Want to add one more thought to this: it's annoying that the umps don't actually enforce the rules, or even pretend to. In his first offense, nothing came of it because the Red Sox decided for whatever reason not to complain to the officials. Since it was SO blatant, why would the umps rely on the opposing manager to complain before they enforce the rules? Can't pretend they didn't see anything, right? And then MLB does nothing afterwards, because no one complained, so he wasn't checked, so officially it could have been anything (dirt! ) and how can they punish him if they don't know? How stupid is that? Umps can see a rule being broken, but won't do anything about it unless someone complains officially? So then best MLB can do is come talk to the Yankees about general rules that they won't acknowledge that anyone may have broken...

And then it happens again THIS start. No effing way the ump couldn't see the stripe of crap from 60 feet away. If they can see it in the opposing bullpen, on the opposite side of his neck, guy right there can't see it? How about the 3B ump who's standing RIGHT THERE and on the correct side? Nothing done until Farrell comes out to ask the umps to check. Really? What's Farrell saying there? "Hey, you don't think that huge black stripe on his neck looks kinda weird, do you? I mean, maybe you're right, he COULD be a zebra, but just to be safe, should someone go look in case it's pine tar instead?"

Just seems the umps should be taking charge for blatant violations. If it's something small and hidden, and the manager just SUSPECTS something is up, sure, go talk and check it out. If it's effing war paint on his neck, do you really need prodding to go check on him?

Then it also turns into acrimony between teams and managers when they have to call each other out. If the umps took charge when it was obvious, then it's not Farrell calling out Girardi, it's the umps calling out the blatant cheating. Seems less confrontational and more 'enforcing the rules' which i thought was why the umps were there...

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Batters can use pine tar, so why not pitchers?

And as Jim Kaat once said: "It's not a foreign substance. It's made in North Carolina."

 

[Scout101]

The rules? Not sure what else to tell you there. And batters have been called out in the past for 'excessive' pine tar on bats, so it's not impossible. Ask George Brett, Yankees were the ones to complain about that.

it's also not on the part of the bat that the ball interacts with. Kinda hard to say the same for the pitcher's fingers, right? Now you're getting into 'doctoring' the ball, and did your fingers just get tacky, or did any transfer to the ball? Then you get into the oldschool spitball, cutting/scuffing/tearing the baseball so it moves oddly, etc.

Either way, it's cheating per the current rules, and Pineda made sure it was blatant. not much to argue with there...

 

[Timby]

As if you needed any more proof that pitcher wins are a completely meaningless and bullshit stat: Jeff Samardzija is the only pitcher in the last hundred years to go seven innings or more and allow two runs or fewer in his first five starts of the season without getting a win.

 

[Tom Hendricks]

I'm all for the use of Pine Tar by pitchers. It's mostly used when it's colder so pitchers can get a better grip. Unlike other substances which help you through with deception, Pine Tar only allows you to throw by actually holding onto the ball. Also Baseball already allows the use of foreign substance, the rosin bag. However that only helps keep your hand dry.

As someone who pitched for my High School team and other leagues, I can tell you I used Pine Tar.

 

[RAMA]

I'm a Yankee fan but he's an idiot...for getting caught. Cheating is a time tested part of baseball.

RAMA

 

[Yanks]

Batters can use pine tar, so why not pitchers?

And as Jim Kaat once said: "It's not a foreign substance. It's made in North Carolina."

Exactly!!

Hey, Torre said he's not going to punish PINEda.

This was so blatently stupid I wonder if there was some sort of agenda here...

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

This was so blatently stupid I wonder if there was some sort of agenda here...

Well I wouldn't go quite that far.

John Farrell did the right thing in calling Pineda out on it - every manager in baseball would do the exact same thing if it gets them an edge. (If the umpires are too lazy to notice this on their own, well, that's their own fault.)

Don't really know why nobody caught Clay Buchholz doing essentially the same thing (except I think he used sunblock), but then again, he wasn't as sloppy about it as Pineda was.

 

[Yanks]

This was so blatently stupid I wonder if there was some sort of agenda here...

Well I wouldn't go quite that far.

John Farrell did the right thing in calling Pineda out on it - every manager in baseball would do the exact same thing if it gets them an edge. (If the umpires are too lazy to notice this on their own, well, that's their own fault.)

Don't really know why nobody caught Clay Buchholz doing essentially the same thing (except I think he used sunblock), but then again, he wasn't as sloppy about it as Pineda was.

Buchholz had that crap on his forearm

Out of sight, out of mind Sunscreen is not as visible...

Not dinging Farrell either. It was so obvious he'd a got ripped had he not said something...

 

[Tom Hendricks]

Pine Tar is vastly different then Sunblock, Vaseline, Spit or any other kind of lubricant. Pine Tar allows you to grip the ball, especially in cold weather. It doesn't alter the characteristic of a pitch, hence why it should be legal. The others do affect the characteristic of pitches, especially Change Ups. They are used when it's warm because it gives to looser grip when you need it. Hence why those should be illegal.

 

[Yanks]

Pine Tar is vastly different then Sunblock, Vaseline, Spit or any other kind of lubricant. Pine Tar allows you to grip the ball, especially in cold weather. It doesn't alter the characteristic of a pitch, hence why it should be legal. The others do affect the characteristic of pitches, especially Change Ups. They are used when it's warm because it gives to looser grip when you need it. Hence why those should be illegal.

They just don't use sunblock alone. They mix the provided rosin with it.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/it-s-a...rs--latest-way-to-gain-an-edge-173953962.html

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2...-are-using-spray-on-sunscreen-buchholz-style/

 

[Scout101]

Turns out we got a quick answer: 10 game suspension, starts tonight. No mention of any fines, but fines in MLB are a joke, so even they gave one, it would be the equivalent of half a stadium hot dog.

See if this blows up into more people asking to check pitchers, or if it just quiets down because he broke the unspoken rule: everyone is cheating a little here, but don't be the asshole that's blatant about it. If you force us to notice, you'll get busted.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

Does anyone think pitchers should get suspensions that are a number of starts, rather than games?

Assuming it's a SP of course.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Difficult to enforce, though. They'll just make their "starts" closer together or move them to the Bullpen so they're an "everyday pitcher." Since, by definition, they're not playing, it's pretty easy to make up all sorts of shit that they "would have" done during those days. However, I do think the number of games suspended should probably take that into account. A 10 game suspension is the equivalent of a two game suspension for a position player. Is that sufficient? If not, they should make it more.

 

[Timby]

If not, they should make it more.

They'd need to adjust the official rules, then. Rule 8.02:

PENALTY: For violation of any part of Rules 8.02(a)(2) through (6)
(a) the pitcher shall be ejected immediately from the game and shall be suspended automatically. In National Association Leagues, the automatic suspension shall be for 10 games.

 

[Pondwater]

BJ Upton sporting specks now. Tuned in and didn't recognize him.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

If not, they should make it more.

They'd need to adjust the official rules, then. Rule 8.02:

PENALTY: For violation of any part of Rules 8.02(a)(2) through (6)
(a) the pitcher shall be ejected immediately from the game and shall be suspended automatically. In National Association Leagues, the automatic suspension shall be for 10 games.

Since that rule is a pitcher rule, does it already take into account that they're not every day players?

 

[Pegaritaville]

Does anyone think pitchers should get suspensions that are a number of starts, rather than games?

Assuming it's a SP of course.

Yeah, for SPs, suspensions often seem a little lenient. Pindeda will basically only miss one start. I have him on my fantasy team so in this case I'm okay with that.

 

[Jedi_Master]

Does anyone have a decent bullpen for sale?

Oakland would be 20- 4 if they could find someone to help them close out a freaking game! Its killing me watching them in the late innings.