20 years ago tonight the Enterprise finale aired. So....what's your opinion two decades on?

[Set Harth]

I'm saying that it isn't canon in my eyes

Who gives a shit?

 

[Mutai Sho-Rin]

Who gives a shit?

No need to be an ass.

 

[Dukhat]

Everything about that finale was an insult. To Trip and T'Pol, to the NX-01 crew, to Shran, and to us. When Jonathan Frakes, the John Ratzenburger of Star Trek, freely admits he shouldn't have been there, you know it was a massive screwing of the pooch.

Not saying it wasn't canon. But it sure shouldn't be!

That final episode is easy to disregard from the canon is anyone chooses, including for the producers of Trek. A tale told from Riker's point of view, 200 years after the fact, it's probably as accurate as any historical biopic set in 1805 made in 2005.

Given Bashir and O'Brien asking Worf about Klingon flat-heads, when Starfleet was involved in the events behind it all testifies as to the lack of accuracy of historical accounts in the 24th Century.

That's before we get to the idea of Riker re-writing the program to satisfy his own fantasies (the horndog probably wanted to get rid of the competition to get himself a piece of Vulcan totty)

Also, it's entirely conceivable that characters like Phlox and Mayweather were no longer on the Enterprise in 2161. Phlox would likely have returned to his extended family, and Mayweather would probably be someone's first officer. But since they're with Archer for his most crucial missions, Riker adds them to the program.

NOTHING about TATV's story made any sense. First, the Riker/Troi scenes made no sense because Riker's holoprogram was not the reason why he ultimately talked to Picard about Pressman's plans. And there would have been no way for Riker to have had time to jaunt around in the holodeck during the events of "The Pegasus" anyway. Also, for the audience who might not have actually watched TNG, they would have had no context about what was actually happening, and would have been confused as to why these people were even there.

As for the 2161 holodeck scenes, it's inconceivable that right after the end of a huge four-year war, that all these people would have still been serving with Archer aboard the NX-01. At the very least, experienced officers like Trip and Reed would have gotten commands of their own. Which also goes along with the idea that nobody got promoted in all that time, which is also inconceivable. Everyone is acting completely out of character, including ancillary characters like Shran.

So yes, it's very easy for anyone watching the episode to assume that the program was not historically accurate, although Riker and Troi act as if it is. And unfortunately, CBS/Paramount has also acted like it is. So in the eyes of the producers past and present, TATV happened the way we saw it on screen despite it not making a lick of sense.

That's a common belief here, actually. Set the episode in 2155, delete Trip's death, and create a new explanation for the Shran plot, and you've got a satisfactory piece of fanservice. And Jonathan Frakes gets to be in yet another Trek series.

Not really. The episode just doesn't work well. Even getting rid of Trip's death, Shran's weird subplot, and changing the date, the episode as it stands still sucks.

 

[Crisp Conditions]

It didn't even have to be "The Pegasus" that the holo-adventure got shoehorned into. There was no reason to pick that particular episode. It didn't even have to be any particular episode at all. It could have been set on an unknown or previously unused stardate and at least worked better.

 

[SantaEddie74]

WAY preferably post-NEM and aboard the U.S.S. Titan. That would have still allowed Berman and Braga to indulge in their (painfully timed and inadvisable) tribute to TNG and the entire TNG Era without having to go back 11 years and recreate old sets and costumes.

 

[Dukhat]

It didn't even have to be "The Pegasus" that the holo-adventure got shoehorned into. There was no reason to pick that particular episode. It didn't even have to be any particular episode at all. It could have been set on an unknown or previously unused stardate and at least worked better.

I've always been of the opinion that, since TATV was produced almost three years after Nemesis, that if the master plan was to bring back Riker & Troi, that they should have been on the Titan (and their correct ages at that), and they should have simply been observers using the holodeck to recreate a scene from an old NX-01 log they found. But B&B had a hardon for TNG, so that's what they went with.

 

[Oddish]

Not really. The episode just doesn't work well. Even getting rid of Trip's death, Shran's weird subplot, and changing the date, the episode as it stands still sucks

Some people might enjoy it, though.

 

[Dukhat]

Some people might enjoy it, though.

If you say so. I've never seen anyone think that TATV's writing was any kind of masterpiece, even without the idiotic subplots of Shran and dead Trip.

 

[Oddish]

If you say so. I've never seen anyone think that TATV's writing was any kind of masterpiece, even without the idiotic subplots of Shran and dead Trip.

Masterpiece? No. It's 4/10, maybe 5 tops, the fanservice equivalent of a plate of Kraft Mac and Cheese with chopped up hot dogs. Not great, but if you like fanservice, you'd probably be OK with it. It was the fact that it was the series finale that made it so bad.

 

[Dukhat]

It was the fact that it was the series finale that made it so bad.

I disagree. First of all, Frakes and Sirtis should never have been on that show, ever. They wormed their way into it like a couple of weasels because they knew B&B had such a hardon for TNG. And the episode was about them, with the ENT characters just as ancillary plot devices for their stupid Pegasus framing story. ENT already had an entire season's worth of fanwank with S4. They didn't need even more of that with Riker & Troi.

Second, while the idea of observers from the future watching past events unfold is a worthwhile concept, it has to be done right or the characters suffer. Even if it wasn't Riker and Troi doing the observing, and it wasn't the series finale, the story needs to be a true recounting of events these characters went through, with the characters acting like how we would expect them to act. Not some holodeck program whose authenticity is questionable because of a laundry list of things that don't make sense about it. And the observers should not be interfering in the story in any way. Preferably, we should not even know who they are until the end, because the story should not be about them.

 

[The Laughing Vulcan]

I disagree. First of all, Frakes and Sirtis should never have been on that show, ever. They wormed their way into it like a couple of weasels because they knew B&B had such a hardon for TNG. And the episode was about them, with the ENT characters just as ancillary plot devices for their stupid Pegasus framing story. ENT already had an entire season's worth of fanwank with S4. They didn't need even more of that with Riker & Troi.

Second, while the idea of observers from the future watching past events unfold is a worthwhile concept, it has to be done right or the characters suffer. Even if it wasn't Riker and Troi doing the observing, and it wasn't the series finale, the story needs to be a true recounting of events these characters went through, with the characters acting like how we would expect them to act. Not some holodeck program whose authenticity is questionable because of a laundry list of things that don't make sense about it. And the observers should not be interfering in the story in any way. Preferably, we should not even know who they are until the end, because the story should not be about them.

Deconstruction of Falling Stars in B5 got that concept right.