1701-A

[Dukhat]

The main problem with any theory about it being a new ship is that in Star Trek III (only a matter of months in screen time before 1701-A's ''launch''), Starfleet was talking about mothballing the Constitution Class, or at least Enterprise herself:

MORROW: I'm sorry Mister Scott, but there will be no refit [...]The Enterprise is twenty years old, we feel her day is over.

But Morrow is only referring to the Enterprise in particular, especially right after it was heavily damaged. And Morrow's dating stupidity aside, the ship was much older than 20 years since it was a refit of the TOS Connie. The Ent-A could have been a newbuild TMP Connie, and based on the interiors it probably was brand new. And right after hearing that it was going to be decommissioned, there'd be no reason for Kirk to believe it would continue in service with another crew unless he knew it was going to be recommissioned again later. (Yes, I'm aware that his statement was meant to foreshadow TNG, but taking him literally, that's how I interpret what he said.)

 

[Timo]

The Ent-A could have been a newbuild TMP Connie, and based on the interiors it probably was brand new.

Or ages-old. After all, only some of the interiors were new: others proudly sported 2260s-style (really, 2240s-style) GNDN pipes. And tellingly, the older-looking interiors were in "belowdecks" places where looks wouldn't have mattered, while all the new stuff was where it would have looked good...

And right after hearing that it was going to be decommissioned, there'd be no reason for Kirk to believe it would continue in service with another crew unless he knew it was going to be recommissioned again later.

We never heard the ship would get decommissioned. Uhura said "we"...

So, right after McCoy has managed to speculate they won't get prosecuted this time around, reality slaps them in the face. The ship will continue, but the bridge crew will once again stand in line as an Admiral rips out their rank markings and breaks their swords and spits on their faces.

Only Scotty's talking in ST5 about it being a 'new ship' that has been 'put together' has any real bearing on suggesting that the ship might be a new-build.... but he could just have been talking figuratively.

Yup, new to Scotty, but old in absolute terms. Possibly.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[BillJ]

And Morrow's dating stupidity aside, the ship was much older than 20 years since it was a refit of the TOS Connie.

I think he was referring to it in its refit configuration (with some serious rounding up). There was very little left from the original according to Decker in TMP.

 

[Maurice]

I would have liked to have seen the 1701-A refit made a bit sleeker, as I attempted with Balson and other parts on the web:

http://i.imgur.com/9TYY7iB.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/NtKLDHU.jpg

I'm sorry, but ick.

 

[Richard Baker]

I would have liked to have seen the 1701-A refit made a bit sleeker, as I attempted with Balson and other parts on the web:

http://i.imgur.com/9TYY7iB.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/NtKLDHU.jpg

I'm sorry, but ick.

Personally I would have liked some visual difference between the Refit and the A. Not too drastic, I know they wanted to reuse the same filming model, but a different looking Bridge, a aft facing Photorp launcher on the neck housing, just something that told us it was a newer ship instead of just altering the hull graphics.
From the way ST-5 starts off I got he impression that the New ship had a problem almost immediately after they did their dramatic warp jump at the end of ST-4. Scotty seemed bitter that the ship was given over to them in such a condition and when we saw it at the beginning of ST-5 the command crew was on vacation while he sorted things out. A brand new Bridge module did not help- the ships's computer had trouble dealing with the basics (Clipboard-Log Tablet, Doors, Voice Interface). This does not sound like an existing ship which just had the name changed. The damage from the whale probe seemed to affect power systems. Once the signals stopped everything looked like it powered back up and worked normally so I don't feel it would have had a permanent impact on the ships. We don't know how extensive the signal was nor do we know where the two other ships we saw on screen were located. One was attempting to deploy a solar sail, which would have been a waste of time if they were in deep space away from any star (it also did not make much sense to me- a solar sail is a propulsion concept and the size of one to do any good to a massive strship would have to be incredibly large).

 

[Timo]

This does not sound like an existing ship which just had the name changed.

But it could be an existing non-spaceworthy ship that was made spaceworthy on a very short notice. With the early 2270s control gear ripped out already, replacement equipment currently in production would have to be substituted, with all sorts of integration problems.

One was attempting to deploy a solar sail, which would have been a waste of time if they were in deep space away from any star (it also did not make much sense to me- a solar sail is a propulsion concept and the size of one to do any good to a massive starship would have to be incredibly large).

Sounds fine to me. Remember how lifeboats of old, or improvised escape rafts, used to have sails? Those pitifully small pieces of canvas did little good in their "supposed" role of propulsion, but they were vital elements in life support - the role specifically quoted in ST4, too. A sail would collect rainwater for survival; a cleverly deployed solar sail might collect sunlight ("power to keep us alive") to the same end.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[MikeS]

I forget that the A only starred in two adventures! I had grown so attached to it that I thought I'd seen it a lot more!

 

[NigellaDeanna20]

the 2nd Enterprise in the voyage home was only used in two movies.. i presume it was a older ship and it was renamed enterprise 1701-a was there any explanation of the short span of the enterprise a?

not that we know of. I think it may very well have been a sister Consistitution-class starship to the Enteprise. In TOS episode "Tomorrow Is Yesterday", Kirk mentions the fact that there are 12 other similar class starships to the Enterprise, so presumably its one of those refitted that becomes the 1701-A.

always liked the 1701-A.

 

[NigellaDeanna20]

And Morrow's dating stupidity aside, the ship was much older than 20 years since it was a refit of the TOS Connie.

I think he was referring to it in its refit configuration (with some serious rounding up). There was very little left from the original according to Decker in TMP.

Murrow absolutely got the Enterprise's age wrong. According to Star Trek canon, the 1701 is around 40 years old by the time of TSFS having been launched around 2245.

 

[NigellaDeanna20]

I forget that the A only starred in two adventures! I had grown so attached to it that I thought I'd seen it a lot more!

yeah. Its hard to believe it alright. She is a beautiful ship indeed.

 

[BillJ]

And Morrow's dating stupidity aside, the ship was much older than 20 years since it was a refit of the TOS Connie.

I think he was referring to it in its refit configuration (with some serious rounding up). There was very little left from the original according to Decker in TMP.

Murrow absolutely got the Enterprise's age wrong. According to Star Trek canon, the 1701 is around 40 years old by the time of TSFS having been launched around 2245.

If you take Decker's quote:

DECKER: Admiral, this is an almost totally new Enterprise.

and figure that Starfleet also sees the 1701 refit as basically a new ship. Then the '20 years old' figure is in the ballpark.

 

[Paradise City]

Some of these Starships have a life span of 50 plus years. The Stargazer was hawkin' about for donkeys years.

I assume perhaps a development in defence by one of the Federation's main rivals rendered the Constitution class vulnerable. Something that couldn't be easily compensated for in a refit, so they shelved the class or at least downgraded it to some superficial role before retiring it outright.

 

[BillJ]

Some of these Starships have a life span of 50 plus years. The Stargazer was hawkin' about for donkeys years.

I assume perhaps a development in defence by one of the Federation's main rivals rendered the Constitution class vulnerable. Something that couldn't be easily compensated for in a refit, so they shelved the class or at least downgraded it to some superficial role before retiring it outright.

I figure if she's the Ti-Ho, she (the "A") could have been a testbed ship for new technologies. Which would no longer be needed if the class was being phased out.

 

[Lance]

I figure if she's the Ti-Ho, she (the ''A'') could have been a testbed ship for new technologies. Which would no longer be needed if the class was being phased out.

'Mister Scott's Guide To The Enterprise' does suggest that the 1701-A was only the second ship (after the Excelsior) to be fitted with the so-called ''transwarp'' drive. Which isn't necessarily transwarp as later Star Trek shows had it, but merely the advancement that eventually led to recalibration of the warp scales seen in The Next Generation (ie, all starships in TNG's time use the experimental Excelsior technology as standard, and the phrase 'transwarp' has been co-opted for whatever the next biggest warp drive advancement is after that.)

So, on that level, if MSGTTE is to be accepted as evidence, then the TiHo/Yorktown/1701-A does actually have a technological advantage over the 'old' Constitution-Refit.

Some of these Starships have a life span of 50 plus years. The Stargazer was hawkin' about for donkeys years.

I assume perhaps a development in defence by one of the Federation's main rivals rendered the Constitution class vulnerable. Something that couldn't be easily compensated for in a refit, so they shelved the class or at least downgraded it to some superficial role before retiring it outright.

It is worth noting that at least one Constitution-Refit is seen among the damaged ships after Wolf 359 in ''The Best Of Both Worlds'', so either Starfleet does still have a limited number of them in service in the 24th century, or else they really had to scramble together whatever they could muster to engage the Borg, including returning to service 80+ year old vessels. Given that the (apparently contemporaneous with the Connie-Refit) Oberth Class, and the ever reliable Excelsior, are both still in service in TNG's time, then it's not necessarily unbelievable that there might still be a couple Consitution-Refits knocking around as much as a century later, even if they aren't necessarily assigned to 'front line' positions in the fleet anymore...

 

[FormerLurker]

If you take Decker's quote:

DECKER: Admiral, this is an almost totally new Enterprise.

and figure that Starfleet also sees the 1701 refit as basically a new ship. Then the '20 years old' figure is in the ballpark.

Wedged under the fence out past the warning track, maybe.

 

[BillJ]

If you take Decker's quote:

DECKER: Admiral, this is an almost totally new Enterprise.

and figure that Starfleet also sees the 1701 refit as basically a new ship. Then the '20 years old' figure is in the ballpark.

Wedged under the fence out past the warning track, maybe.

We'll just say it is a big ballpark.

 

[Paradise City]

I figure if she's the Ti-Ho, she (the ''A'') could have been a testbed ship for new technologies. Which would no longer be needed if the class was being phased out.

'Mister Scott's Guide To The Enterprise' does suggest that the 1701-A was only the second ship (after the Excelsior) to be fitted with the so-called ''transwarp'' drive. Which isn't necessarily transwarp as later Star Trek shows had it, but merely the advancement that eventually led to recalibration of the warp scales seen in The Next Generation (ie, all starships in TNG's time use the experimental Excelsior technology as standard, and the phrase 'transwarp' has been co-opted for whatever the next biggest warp drive advancement is after that.)

So, on that level, if MSGTTE is to be accepted as evidence, then the TiHo/Yorktown/1701-A does actually have a technological advantage over the 'old' Constitution-Refit.

Some of these Starships have a life span of 50 plus years. The Stargazer was hawkin' about for donkeys years.

I assume perhaps a development in defence by one of the Federation's main rivals rendered the Constitution class vulnerable. Something that couldn't be easily compensated for in a refit, so they shelved the class or at least downgraded it to some superficial role before retiring it outright.

It is worth noting that at least one Constitution-Refit is seen among the damaged ships after Wolf 359 in ''The Best Of Both Worlds'', so either Starfleet does still have a limited number of them in service in the 24th century, or else they really had to scramble together whatever they could muster to engage the Borg, including returning to service 80+ year old vessels. Given that the (apparently contemporaneous with the Connie-Refit) Oberth Class, and the ever reliable Excelsior, are both still in service in TNG's time, then it's not necessarily unbelievable that there might still be a couple Consitution-Refits knocking around as much as a century later, even if they aren't necessarily assigned to 'front line' positions in the fleet anymore...

Mr. Scott's guide was written by a novelist wasn't it? The idea that A is the ex-Yorktown is stuff that Okuda has in his material. I'm inclined to take my cue from Okuda personally.

I know they used some of the bits and bobs from the movies as wreckage for the 359 scene although personally I can't properly discern a Constitution class ship from the footage although maybe my eyes aren't up to it.

We do know Miranda class ships featured at 359 as combat vessels with Sisko serving on one and of course Excelsior as a class are on the front lines of battle for ninety years and they are still fresh. The beefed up Lakota being a case in point.

I like to think the Enterprise A found the same fate as was originally intended for refit Enterprise. As a training ship. The fact that Starfleet could afford such an apparently beefed up starship like refit Enterprise to be a mere training ship warrants discussion. Perhaps there was something wrong with it? In films V & VI, the Enterprise is solving a hostage situation and going on a diplomatic run without intending to go into combat.

Perhaps they just needed at least one well armed ship in proximity of earth to be deployed when a wandering probe or some villain decides they want to take a potshot at the big blue marble. And when there isn't an earth centric emergency let the cadets have a go.

 

[InklingStar]

In the real world, the producers didn't want to use the old Constitution class in later shows. In universe, I wonder if the Constitution refit, starting with Enterprise in TMP, was a large-scale testbed for new technologies that eventually became the Excelsior class. Once the tech was perfected, the Constitution class was retired and the Excelsior and Miranda became the backbone of the fleet for the next century. That would explain why the Enterprise was already put out to pasture as a training ship less than a decade after full scale refit.

 

[Tim Thomason]

'Mister Scott's Guide To The Enterprise' does suggest that the 1701-A was only the second ship (after the Excelsior) to be fitted with the so-called ''transwarp'' drive. Which isn't necessarily transwarp as later Star Trek shows had it, but merely the advancement that eventually led to recalibration of the warp scales seen in The Next Generation (ie, all starships in TNG's time use the experimental Excelsior technology as standard, and the phrase 'transwarp' has been co-opted for whatever the next biggest warp drive advancement is after that.)

So, on that level, if MSGTTE is to be accepted as evidence, then the TiHo/Yorktown/1701-A does actually have a technological advantage over the 'old' Constitution-Refit.

Some of these Starships have a life span of 50 plus years. The Stargazer was hawkin' about for donkeys years.

I assume perhaps a development in defence by one of the Federation's main rivals rendered the Constitution class vulnerable. Something that couldn't be easily compensated for in a refit, so they shelved the class or at least downgraded it to some superficial role before retiring it outright.

It is worth noting that at least one Constitution-Refit is seen among the damaged ships after Wolf 359 in ''The Best Of Both Worlds'', so either Starfleet does still have a limited number of them in service in the 24th century, or else they really had to scramble together whatever they could muster to engage the Borg, including returning to service 80+ year old vessels. Given that the (apparently contemporaneous with the Connie-Refit) Oberth Class, and the ever reliable Excelsior, are both still in service in TNG's time, then it's not necessarily unbelievable that there might still be a couple Consitution-Refits knocking around as much as a century later, even if they aren't necessarily assigned to 'front line' positions in the fleet anymore...

The two Wolf 359 Constitutions were reused footage of the Enterprise destruction from Star Trek III. Although there's no registry viewable, my headcanon is that one of them is in fact the Enterprise-A, probably a nearby museum ship mustered into service.

 

[Ronald Held]

For the battle at Wolf 359, I speculate that any ship regardless of age that could be made combat worthy in time was used. Maybe some were pulled from the Starfleet museum??