10 Starship "Holy Grails"

[137th Gebirg]

First, I have absolutely nothing useful to add to this thread (at this time).

However, would like to say that I greatly appreciate its existence and what it's attempting to accomplish, potentially acquiring some insanely amazing behind-the-scenes institutional knowledge of rare and little-known ship designs. A shame that these things weren't brought up and addressed when Eaglemoss was doing their research years ago. They would have had easier access to the source material and people responsible when the officially sanctioned and licensed effort was in full swing.

This is one of my favorite threads on TBBS. Hopefully something substantive will come if it.

 

[Dukhat]

^Thanks, pal.

I will also be posting some pics of the Dragon Typhoon sub I bought on eBay which was the sub Sternbach used for his Mars Defense Perimeter drone, but I’m currently out of town at the moment. I’m going to try to contact Sternbach on Facebook about it, but Facebook tends to be hit or miss.

 

[Mres_was_framed!]

The original models of the Kyushu and the Melbourne were available, but what did Legato use to film the Tolstoy in that discarded battle footage?

I could imagine that he knew the Chekov was called the Tolstoy in the final episode, and had reused the Chekov model, and then just used the Tolstoy name in conversation. However, not matter how logical my assumption seems to me, it cannot prove that an actual Tolstoy model did not exist.

He mentioned that he thought the Gage was a reuse of the TWOK Reliant with different nacelles

That is probably a reference to the model that was created but never filmed, called the Trieste, referencing the ship on Which Data used to serve. He probably remembered the model, as its looks are...memorable, and remembered another name. (I had to look up the name Trieste, and to my astonishment "ship Data called 'too small, too slow,'" is actually a search suggestion on Google!)

 

[Dukhat]

That is probably a reference to the model that was created but never filmed, called the Trieste, referencing the ship on Which Data used to serve. He probably remembered the model, as its looks are...memorable, and remembered another name. (I had to look up the name Trieste, and to my astonishment "ship Data called 'too small, too slow,'" is actually a search suggestion on Google!)

Unfortunately that can’t be correct, as Emissary was broadcast in 1993, and the AMT Reliant model kit wasn’t produced until 1995. The Trieste was one of the kitbashes built for ‘A Time to Stand.’

 

[JoseNoodles]

To keep the discussion going, let me mention Bernd Schneider's nice little article about obscure starships. For me, the Yridian, Etanian, and "Renovation Team Nova" ships are the most interesting. I think the Renovation ship might have served as the basis/inspiration for the Xindi-Aquatic ship. I'm also surprised we don't have any behind-the-scene images of the Etanian ship. What little we see of the (CGI?) model on Voyager seems highly detailed and organic, like a dry-run for the Species 8472 bioship. I also wondered what happened to the Yridian ship model. There's a photo of the model, but it looks different from how it appeared in TNG. The "wings" in the photo are like dragonfly wings, but the wings look more angular on the show. Don't know if the photo of the model was taken before or after its appearance on TNG.

 

[Mres_was_framed!]

Unfortunately that can’t be correct, as Emissary was broadcast in 1993, and the AMT Reliant model kit wasn’t produced until 1995. The Trieste was one of the kitbashes built for ‘A Time to Stand.’

Assuming he had his memory of the timing of the builds correct, then that is curious. Does the Trieste come from the model kits, or was it build from studio model molds?(seems like you would not make something like that unless you were limited to model kits).

If a model, built from old or new molds, of an updated Miranda did exist, especially if the Galaxy-style nacelles were in the normal location, why not use it instead of the "Wrath of Khan"-style Miranda? It would just reinforce the idea Jefferies first suggest that some ship components are replaceable quickly.

Keeping the Miranda but replacing the nacelles as needed makes a lot more sense than the idea of that Starfleet could somehow combine totally unrelated ship components into new ship classes. Most one this thread seem to agree that classes like the Centaur, Elkins, and such could have been newly-designed classes built from designed components that already existed and could be made to work together, but would not literally have been from taking whatever pieces of ships survived a battle and just fitting them together in whatever way made a complete ship.

 

[Richard Baker]

Some of those ships did look designed (although the Centaur having a miss-scaled Miranda weapons pod will always bother me). Other ships do look slapped together out of desperation with no rhyme or reason other that a "just make it work" mentality.

 

[Dukhat]

Assuming he had his memory of the timing of the builds correct, then that is curious. Does the Trieste come from the model kits, or was it build from studio model molds?(seems like you would not make something like that unless you were limited to model kits).

If a model, built from old or new molds, of an updated Miranda did exist, especially if the Galaxy-style nacelles were in the normal location, why not use it instead of the "Wrath of Khan"-style Miranda? It would just reinforce the idea Jefferies first suggest that some ship components are replaceable quickly.

Keeping the Miranda but replacing the nacelles as needed makes a lot more sense than the idea of that Starfleet could somehow combine totally unrelated ship components into new ship classes. Most one this thread seem to agree that classes like the Centaur, Elkins, and such could have been newly-designed classes built from designed components that already existed and could be made to work together, but would not literally have been from taking whatever pieces of ships survived a battle and just fitting them together in whatever way made a complete ship.

The photos of the Trieste show it next to an AMT 1:1000 scale Excelsior model kit and another 1:537 Reliant kit, the Antares. So it’s pretty safe to assume the Trieste was built from available Reliant, 1:1400 Enterprise-D, and Saturn V model kit parts. Neither the Reliant kit nor the Excelsior kit were produced before Emissary was filmed. I simply tend to believe there was no model built or relabeled for the Gage.

 

[Dukhat]

4. Rick Sternbach also built a kitbashed model of a Mars Defense Perimeter drone from several submarine model kits, which was later used as a Soliton Wave Rider and a decommissioned ship at the Qualor II surplus depot in “Unification.” No photos of this model have ever been seen. Do any exist?

So for the first time, I actually have an honest-to-goodness update to this thread. I have a photo of the Mars Defense Perimeter drone model. That’s the good news. The not-so-good news is a) I’m out of town and won’t be able to post the photo until next week, and b) it’s not a very good photo. You can clearly make out that it’s the model, but other than that there’s not much to see. You’ll understand when you see the photo. Stay tuned!

 

[137th Gebirg]

Looking forward to seeing it. We’ve waited 30 years for it. Can wait a few more days.

 

[JoseNoodles]

The photos of the Trieste show it next to an AMT 1:1000 scale Excelsior model kit and another 1:537 Reliant kit, the Antares. So it’s pretty safe to assume the Trieste was built from available Reliant, 1:1400 Enterprise-D, and Saturn V model kit parts. Neither the Reliant kit nor the Excelsior kit were produced before Emissary was filmed. I simply tend to believe there was no model built or relabeled for the Gage.

Hey, it's better than nothing.

 

[Dukhat]

One more thing not on my list: I also have some photos of the free-floating Galaxy class damaged nacelle from BoBW:

https://tng.trekcore.com/hd/albums/season-4/4x01/the-best-of-both-worlds-part-two-hd-146.jpg

 

[JoseNoodles]

It'd be nice if there were some photos of that beat-up Type7 shuttle model actually being filmed as wreckage for the episode.

 

[Dukhat]

It'd be nice if there were some photos of that beat-up Type7 shuttle model actually being filmed as wreckage for the episode.

I have been analyzing those Wolf 359 scenes and screencaps for the last 30 years. I’ve been super-methodical in identifying each and every ship and bit of wreckage seen on screen. And other than the object I mentioned for #3 Holy Grail, I have never seen anything that might be that shuttle. Even if it was filmed, I don’t think it ended up on screen. I DO have more photos of that shuttle than the one you posted, but I think it ultimately went unused. Maybe they thought it was too gruesome.

 

[JoseNoodles]

I have been analyzing those Wolf 359 scenes and screencaps for the last 30 years. I’ve been super-methodical in identifying each and every ship and bit of wreckage seen on screen. And other than the object I mentioned for #3 Holy Grail, I have never seen anything that might be that shuttle. Even if it was filmed, I don’t think it ended up on screen. I DO have more photos of that shuttle than the one you posted, but I think it ultimately went unused. Maybe they thought it was too gruesome.

I recall Greg Jein making a comment that this effect; that they had made the shuttle to include dead bodies and that it was perhaps a bit to gruesome. I'd appreciate any other photos you have the shuttle. Does it include other dead crew members besides the gold shirt?

 

[Dukhat]

No, they’re just production photos of the shuttle from different angles.

 

[JoseNoodles]

No, they’re just production photos of the shuttle from different angles.

Oh, ok. I still look forward to seeming them if you ever post them.

 

[Dukhat]

Those may take a bit to find. They’re on an old portable HD somewhere.

 

[137th Gebirg]

One of those old Syquest/Zip/Jazz drives? Whoot, that might be a difficult thing to de-archive these days.

 

[Dukhat]

Nah, I had long since transferred all my old data from old hard drives, floppy disks, Zip drives, etc., onto more updated media. It’s just not sorted very well.