10 Starship "Holy Grails"

[Dukhat]

This is a list I came up with for my ten most unanswered mysteries surrounding starships in TNG and DS9. I don't expect Rick Sternbach, Michael Okuda, Doug Drexler, Dan Curry, Rob Legato, etc. to magically drop in here and answer my questions; rather, I just thought it would be interesting to get other like-minded peoples' opinions. So without further ado...

1. Despite the USS Tolstoy being mentioned by name in BoBW, there was no model built for it, as the name was just dubbed over the Chekov’s. However, for “Emissary,” the pilot episode of Deep Space Nine, VFX head Rob Legato filmed an opening battle scene which ended up not being used, and the footage has never been seen. He mentioned that he made sure that the three ships mentioned in BoBW (the Tolstoy, Kyushu, and Melbourne) were represented in the scene. The original models of the Kyushu and the Melbourne were available, but what did Legato use to film the Tolstoy in that discarded battle footage?

2. Additionally, the original script for “Emissary” mentioned another ship at Wolf 359, the USS Gage. The first Star Trek Encyclopedia listed this ship as an Apollo class starship. Was there ever a model or piece of wreckage that represented the Gage in the discarded footage?

3. All of the models and wreckage from the Wolf 359 battle scene from BoBW have been identified, except for one small object that appears three times, first between the Chekov and the Kyushu in the opening shot, then underneath the saucer of the Princeton in the viewscreen shot, and finally underneath the Enterprise-D’s saucer in the final shot. What is this last unidentified object in the Wolf 359 graveyard?

4. Rick Sternbach also built a kitbashed model of a Mars Defense Perimeter drone from several submarine model kits, which was later used as a Soliton Wave Rider and a decommissioned ship at the Qualor II surplus depot in “Unification.” No photos of this model have ever been seen. Do any exist?

5. All of the foreground models at the Qualor II surplus depot have been identified, except for a relatively large saucer-like ship that doesn’t look like anything we’ve seen before. What is this object and where did it come from?

6. Additionally, what were all the far background objects in the scene with the mystery saucer at Qualor II? The TNG-R version of “Unification” replaces these objects with random CGI detritus.

7. What are the registry numbers of the ships in the Starship Deploy Status Okudagram in TNG’s “Measure of a Man?” Most of the numbers have just been guesses.

8. What are the registry numbers of the ships in the database that Data accesses in TNG’s “Conspiracy?” Most of the numbers have just been guesses.

9. Several kitbashing rounds were done for DS9’s “A Time to Stand” for wrecked background ships in the ‘Frankenstein’ fleet at the start of the episode. Are there any photos of other DS9 kitbashes built besides the ones we already know of?

10. A submarine-like ship with blue engine glow can be seen in the DS9 opening credits in seasons 4-7. It is a CGI model created by John Knoll. Perhaps the model was not detailed enough to be shown up close, but I would still love to know what it looks like.

 

[Dukhat]

2. Additionally, the original script for “Emissary” mentioned another ship at Wolf 359, the USS Gage. The first Star Trek Encyclopedia listed this ship as an Apollo class starship. Was there ever a model or piece of wreckage that represented the Gage in the discarded footage?

Disclaimer: Many years ago I did contact Rob Legato about this. He mentioned that he thought the Gage was a reuse of the TWOK Reliant with different nacelles. However, his memory was very hazy and I'm almost positive that he wasn't remembering correctly, especially since neither the Reliant filming model nor the smaller version made for its destruction in the Mutara Nebula show any signs of being modified as such. Michael Okuda also told me that no new models were built for this scene, so any ships like the Gage and the Tolstoy would have been represented by random wreckage rather than a full ship model.

 

[publiusr]

About all I have
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/TNG_studio_models#Federation_defense_pod
https://www.neutralzone.de/database/Federation/Other/SolitonWave-Rider.htm
https://glykokalyxblog.wordpress.com/99-303_solitonwaverider/

I thought Gage was the POTT study model---the shorter one
https://www.deviantart.com/nekosei/art/U-S-S-Gage-Apollo-Class-33556131

 

[Cyfa]

I have no real world answers or information for any of these points, unfortunately. However, I do have an in-universe thought about this one:

5. All of the foreground models at the Qualor II surplus depot have been identified, except for a relatively large saucer-like ship that doesn’t look like anything we’ve seen before. What is this object and where did it come from?

- I like to think that this saucer hulk is from an original (or pre-2380s refit) California-class. The main reason is the striking similarity of the raised hull sections forming a V-shape from the saucer edge (the shuttlebays) to the centre (decks 1-4 superstructure). I conjecture that amongst other things, the smooth sloping hull was replaced in a refit with the stepped hull that we see on ST: Lower Decks today. Of course, this is all in my head, and who knows what it really is

 

[Dukhat]

I thought Gage was the POTT study model---the shorter one
https://www.deviantart.com/nekosei/art/U-S-S-Gage-Apollo-Class-33556131

That study model was only seen in Unification. If it was used in the discarded footage, I'm unaware of that. However, it was not damaged or relabeled "Gage" with the registry number, so it's doubtful that it was used for that.

I have no real world answers or information for any of these points, unfortunately. However, I do have an in-universe thought about this one:
- I like to think that this saucer hulk is from an original (or pre-2380s refit) California-class. The main reason is the striking similarity of the raised hull sections forming a V-shape from the saucer edge (the shuttlebays) to the centre (decks 1-4 superstructure). I conjecture that amongst other things, the smooth sloping hull was replaced in a refit with the stepped hull that we see on ST: Lower Decks today. Of course, this is all in my head, and who knows what it really is

While there is an uncanny resemblance between this mystery saucer and the California class saucer, it's obviously not the same IRL. Okuda once mentioned to me that he thought it was a discarded model from the V miniseries (it does resemble one of the V motherships in shape, but not in appearance.)

 

[publiusr]

The V saucer
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/148618856432552677/
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/95138610858052734/


Now there was this ship that looks to have its parts put on the saucer

https://vtvr.fandom.com/wiki/Triax
https://v.fandom.com/wiki/Triax

 

[Dukhat]

Small update: I've uncovered through research that @Rick Sternbach used a 1989 Shanghai Dragon (now DML) model kit of a 1:350 scale Typhoon submarine for the Mars Defense Perimeter drone main hull. At first I thought it was a Revell kit but the surface details didn't match, while the Dragon model matches perfectly. Interestingly, the sub model is constructed with metal screws rather than modeling cement.

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/dragon-1001-typhoon-class--108659

 

[publiusr]

I might have cut a 1/537 Refit impulse deck at a slant—filled with foam—and put on the aft, top side to disguise it just a bit more.

 

[Andru]

I'm late I know, but here are a few thoughts on your 'most wanted' questions.

1. Despite the USS Tolstoy being mentioned by name in BoBW, there was no model built for it, as the name was just dubbed over the Chekov’s. However, for “Emissary,” the pilot episode of Deep Space Nine, VFX head Rob Legato filmed an opening battle scene which ended up not being used, and the footage has never been seen. He mentioned that he made sure that the three ships mentioned in BoBW (the Tolstoy, Kyushu, and Melbourne) were represented in the scene. The original models of the Kyushu and the Melbourne were available, but what did Legato use to film the Tolstoy in that discarded battle footage?

Reading up on Legatos's work for Emissary on Memory Alpha, it would seem that he had a huge battle sequence filmed, then he removed most of the damaged ships to make it look like the battle was just starting. So there were ship wreckage filmed with ship names and such, perhaps more than just the Tolstoy. Probably all of the damaged ships were new builds, as Emissary was filmed some 3 years after BOTW and I'd be surprised if they went searching for the old wrecked models.

2. Additionally, the original script for “Emissary” mentioned another ship at Wolf 359, the USS Gage. The first Star Trek Encyclopedia listed this ship as an Apollo class starship. Was there ever a model or piece of wreckage that represented the Gage in the discarded footage?

Probably not, and Mike Okuda assigned a class to the known ship name. I am surprised though that he would include in the Encyclopedia a ship that wasn't seen on screen, but I don't think that it suggests that a Gage model -- or piece of -- was actually built.

On the other hand, we don't know for sure what the Oberth model was labeled as during the filming of Emissary. It was used to represent the Bonestell and the Cochrane, but neither were seen clearly enough to read any markings. It has been suggested (MA) that the model was still bearing Yosemite markings, but I have no evidence for this. The Oberth model could have been labeled something else for Emissary but there's no photographic proof either way as far as I know.

 

[Andru]

Adding to the list of holy grails, if I may, are a number of dedication plaques from the TNG/DS9 period that we never got to see up close, or at all:
- USS Horatio (Conspiracy)
- USS Yamato (Contagion)
- USS Saratoga (Emissary)
- USS Pasteur (All Good Things) -- the final version
I'm not holding my breath, but there's hope -- we finally got a look at the old Stargazer plaque this year, and I never thought we would!

 

[Dukhat]

Reading up on Legatos's work for Emissary on Memory Alpha, it would seem that he had a huge battle sequence filmed, then he removed most of the damaged ships to make it look like the battle was just starting. So there were ship wreckage filmed with ship names and such, perhaps more than just the Tolstoy. Probably all of the damaged ships were new builds, as Emissary was filmed some 3 years after BOTW and I'd be surprised if they went searching for the old wrecked models.

Okuda said there weren't any new models specifically built for this discarded scene. And he would have been the one to label any models, so that's why I think that if there was even a USS Gage that existed, that it was only an old piece of wreckage that he might have assigned that name to. Which, when I think about it more and more, I find highly unlikely. As for other ships, I do know that Jein, during an interview about BoBW on the former's bluray many years after the fact, stated that they grabbed the Princeton and the Firebrand out of his stock inventory, presumably for this scene. They still had the Kyushu and Nebula Melbourne models available as well, and Hutzel had the Buran (and he also liked to collect ship battle damage parts from past TNG episodes for later use), so they had plenty of stock to use for the scene without building anything new.

Probably not, and Mike Okuda assigned a class to the known ship name. I am surprised though that he would include in the Encyclopedia a ship that wasn't seen on screen, but I don't think that it suggests that a Gage model -- or piece of -- was actually built.

I am also leaning toward the thought that a Gage model never existed in any form. I think that somehow the name made it into the Encyclopedia (probably based on the 1991 shiplist excel spreadsheet going around at the time) but that because it was just from a previous script draft, it didn't make it to the final script but still found its way into Okuda's reference book.

On the other hand, we don't know for sure what the Oberth model was labeled as during the filming of Emissary. It was used to represent the Bonestell and the Cochrane, but neither were seen clearly enough to read any markings. It has been suggested (MA) that the model was still bearing Yosemite markings, but I have no evidence for this. The Oberth model could have been labeled something else for Emissary but there's no photographic proof either way as far as I know.

TNG "Realm of Fear" (which showed the Grissom model labeled as the Yosemite) was shown on September 1992. "Emissary" was shown on January 1993. TNG "The Drumhead" (which showed the Grissom model labeled as the Cochrane, or at least showing the Cochrane's registry number) was shown on April 1991. So the math doesn't line up. There's no way that they went from labeling the model 'Cochrane,' then the next year labeling it 'Yosemite,' and then the next year after that relabeling it 'Cochrane,' especially since neither the dialogue nor the script of "Emissary" mentioned the ship by name. I have no doubt that the model was labeled 'Yosemite' despite its appearance in the episode as two different ships that weren't the Yosemite. Also, I believe that the destroyed version of the Bonestell seen for a split second used the Vico model (which also could have been used by Legato for the discarded battle scene.)

 

[Andru]

Okuda said there weren't any new models specifically built for this discarded scene. And he would have been the one to label any models, so that's why I think that if there was even a USS Gage that existed, that it was only an old piece of wreckage that he might have assigned that name to. Which, when I think about it more and more, I find highly unlikely. As for other ships, I do know that Jein, during an interview about BoBW on the former's bluray many years after the fact, stated that they grabbed the Princeton and the Firebrand out of his stock inventory, presumably for this scene. They still had the Kyushu and Nebula Melbourne models available as well, and Hutzel had the Buran (and he also liked to collect ship battle damage parts from past TNG episodes for later use), so they had plenty of stock to use for the scene without building anything new.

Ah ok, I thought Jein said that he grabbed the ships out of his inventory in order to shoot BoBW, not Emissary. But I don't have the interview readily available to check again.

I am also leaning toward the thought that a Gage model never existed in any form. I think that somehow the name made it into the Encyclopedia (probably based on the 1991 shiplist excel spreadsheet going around at the time) but that because it was just from a previous script draft, it didn't make it to the final script but still found its way into Okuda's reference book.

The Gage is not mentioned in my copy of that list from 1990, but that was many years before Emissary.

TNG "Realm of Fear" (which showed the Grissom model labeled as the Yosemite) was shown on September 1992. "Emissary" was shown on January 1993. TNG "The Drumhead" (which showed the Grissom model labeled as the Cochrane, or at least showing the Cochrane's registry number) was shown on April 1991. So the math doesn't line up. There's no way that they went from labeling the model 'Cochrane,' then the next year labeling it 'Yosemite,' and then the next year after that relabeling it 'Cochrane,' especially since neither the dialogue nor the script of "Emissary" mentioned the ship by name. I have no doubt that the model was labeled 'Yosemite' despite its appearance in the episode as two different ships that weren't the Yosemite. Also, I believe that the destroyed version of the Bonestell seen for a split second used the Vico model (which also could have been used by Legato for the discarded battle scene.)

I know the Oberth wasn't mentioned by name nor seen in close-up in the final episode, but given that they relabeled every other hero model for the pilot, I wouldn't put it past them to have relabeled the Oberth as well, knowing it might be needed. Now I'm not saying they labeled it Cochrane, or Bonestell for that matter. But I still think there's a chance it was not the Yosemite anymore. We can *almost* read a registry when it's docked at the station, if only they would release a proper remaster of that footage!

Now there's a thought, could the Tolstoy have been a damaged Vico? :-)

 

[Dukhat]

Ah ok, I thought Jein said that he grabbed the ships out of his inventory in order to shoot BoBW, not Emissary. But I don't have the interview readily available to check again.

The interview was on the BoBW bluray, but Jein is referring to other people taking the models from his stock inventory, presumably Legato for the discarded scene. So the interview took place after BoBW.

The Gage is not mentioned in my copy of that list from 1990, but that was many years before Emissary.

My mistake. The Gage reference was from an early script, not from that 1990 list.

https://www.st-minutiae.com/resources/scripts/402.txt

SISKO
Sir, Admiral Hanson has deployed the
Gage, the Kyushu and the Melbourne...

The problem with the list, however, is that it lists the Bonestell as having been destroyed in BoBW, not Emissary, which was broadcast years after this list was supposedly written. It makes me wonder about the veracity of that list.

I know the Oberth wasn't mentioned by name nor seen in close-up in the final episode, but given that they relabeled every other hero model for the pilot, I wouldn't put it past them to have relabeled the Oberth as well, knowing it might be needed. Now I'm not saying they labeled it Cochrane, or Bonestell for that matter. But I still think there's a chance it was not the Yosemite anymore. We can *almost* read a registry when it's docked at the station, if only they would release a proper remaster of that footage!

Here's the order of when the Grissom model was used in TNG:

1. As the Tsiolkovsky (but labeled USS Copernicus NCC-640), "The Naked Now" 10/87
2. Unnamed ship with registry NCC-59318, "The Drumhead" 04/91
3. Unnamed ship with registry NCC-59318, "The Game" 10/91 (stock footage from "The Drumhead")
4. As the Yosemite NCC-19002 "Realm of Fear" 09/92
5. As the Biko (but using stock footage of the unnamed ship from "The Drumhead" with NCC-59318 registry), "A Fistful of Datas" 11/92
6. Unnamed ships, "Emissary" 01/93
7. As the Pegasus NCC-53847 "The Pegasus" 01/94
8. Unnamed ship "Star Trek Generations" (but with the Pegasus name and registry) 11/94

So sure, there's a possibility that the model was relabeled something else between its use as the Yosemite but before being relabeled the Pegasus, but I don't think it was, and I definitely don't think it was labeled 'Cochrane,' because the order of when the model was used doesn't add up that way. If Okuda had relabeled that model, he would have documented that info. All MA says is that it's the Cochrane that docks at DS9, when the episode production order doesn't bear that out. I think the model was still labeled Yosemite for both its appearances in Emissary (unless the model was never actually labeled 'Cochrane' for its appearance in "The Drumhead" and was named that only in "Emissary." That would open a whole new can of worms...)

Now there's a thought, could the Tolstoy have been a damaged Vico? :-)

Doubtful. The model was still labeled Vico when it was auctioned off years after the fact.

 

[Andru]

The interview was on the BoBW bluray, but Jein is referring to other people taking the models from his stock inventory, presumably Legato for the discarded scene. So the interview took place after BoBW.

Interesting, if the old models were indeed used for that sequence then it's possible the rejected footage is somewhere in the Paramount archives... ready to be included as bonus material on the HD remaster of DS9!

My mistake. The Gage reference was from an early script, not from that 1990 list.

https://www.st-minutiae.com/resources/scripts/402.txt

SISKO
Sir, Admiral Hanson has deployed the
Gage, the Kyushu and the Melbourne...

The problem with the list, however, is that it lists the Bonestell as having been destroyed in BoBW, not Emissary, which was broadcast years after this list was supposedly written. It makes me wonder about the veracity of that list.

I don't know, the list seems authentic to me in the way some registries and classes don't match what came to be accepted as canon later on.

Here's the timeline of when the ship information was officially released:
- many BoBW2 ship class names were mentioned for the first time in the TNG Companion (1992)
- then all the names, classes and registries were published in the first Encyclopedia (1994)
- ...except for the Bonestell, who was first named in the 1995 edition of the Omnipedia CD-ROM, along with a bunch of other new ship registries and classes. Back then it was normal for Mr Okuda to fill in the gaps with what was probably information matching the internal ship list, whether it was factual information from an actual ship model, an Okudagram or just stuff made up on the spot. It was official as can be, but not all 'canon'.
- the Gage was also mentioned for the first time in the 1994 Encyclopedia (the first reference to be published after Emissary)
- the Cochrane was first mentioned in 1995 in the second edition of the TNG Companion, but back then it was in relation to the TNG episodes (I think? My books are packed for moving). Only the 1999 Encyclopedia linked the Cochrane with Emissary, but it was many years after the fact so a mistake could have been made.

Also, the only available picture of the Yosemite model includes VFX artists that apparently were working on DS9, but I can't tell for sure since may people moved from TNG to DS9 in 1992-1993 to get the new show rolling. It does seem to suggest that they used the Yosemite in Emissary, but we don't know if the picture was taken before or after filming the pilot. I'm reaching here but they could have relabeled the ship after the picture was taken!

Here's the order of when the Grissom model was used in TNG:

1. As the Tsiolkovsky (but labeled USS Copernicus NCC-640), "The Naked Now" 10/87
2. Unnamed ship with registry NCC-59318, "The Drumhead" 04/91
3. Unnamed ship with registry NCC-59318, "The Game" 10/91 (stock footage from "The Drumhead")
4. As the Yosemite NCC-19002 "Realm of Fear" 09/92
5. As the Biko (but using stock footage of the unnamed ship from "The Drumhead" with NCC-59318 registry), "A Fistful of Datas" 11/92
6. Unnamed ships, "Emissary" 01/93
7. As the Pegasus NCC-53847 "The Pegasus" 01/94
8. Unnamed ship "Star Trek Generations" (but with the Pegasus name and registry) 11/94

So sure, there's a possibility that the model was relabeled something else between its use as the Yosemite but before being relabeled the Pegasus, but I don't think it was, and I definitely don't think it was labeled 'Cochrane,' because the order of when the model was used doesn't add up that way. If Okuda had relabeled that model, he would have documented that info. All MA says is that it's the Cochrane that docks at DS9, when the episode production order doesn't bear that out. I think the model was still labeled Yosemite for both its appearances in Emissary (unless the model was never actually labeled 'Cochrane' for its appearance in "The Drumhead" and was named that only in "Emissary." That would open a whole new can of worms...)

I see your point, as we never actually saw the Cochrane model. But everything does suggest that the model was still labeled as Yosemite during Emissary.

As for why the Bonestell made it to that internal ship list, then in the published material, it's still a mystery. But the timeline does not really suggest it was meant to be the Oberth destroyed in Emissary -- unless the list is fake, that is. On the other hand, unless it was simply a labelled nacelle or such, no model of an Oberth was ever seen in BoBW2.

 

[Dukhat]

Interesting, if the old models were indeed used for that sequence then it's possible the rejected footage is somewhere in the Paramount archives... ready to be included as bonus material on the HD remaster of DS9!

That is one of my fondest wishes. But I don't have high hopes that we'll see it, or even an HD remaster of DS9 in general.

Also, the only available picture of the Yosemite model includes VFX artists that apparently were working on DS9, but I can't tell for sure since may people moved from TNG to DS9 in 1992-1993 to get the new show rolling. It does seem to suggest that they used the Yosemite in Emissary, but we don't know if the picture was taken before or after filming the pilot. I'm reaching here but they could have relabeled the ship after the picture was taken!

It does annoy me that we've gotten lots of behind the scenes photos of the various uses of the Excelsior, Miranda, Galaxy, Nebula, Ambassador and Constellation class models, but only two major uses of the Grissom model (as the Grissom herself and the Pegasus.) No pics of when it was supposedly labeled Cochrane, Bonestell, Copernicus, or Yosemite (except for side views showing registry numbers but not names.)

As for why the Bonestell made it to that internal ship list, then in the published material, it's still a mystery. But the timeline does not really suggest it was meant to be the Oberth destroyed in Emissary -- unless the list is fake, that is. On the other hand, unless it was simply a labelled nacelle or such, no model of an Oberth was ever seen in BoBW2.

The Grissom model was not used in BoBW, because they would not have intentionally damaged an expensive movie filming model for that scene ( which was why Jein built a new model for the destroyed SS Vico.)

 

[Mres_was_framed!]

Small update: I've uncovered through research that @Rick Sternbach used a 1989 Shanghai Dragon (now DML) model kit of a 1:350 scale Typhoon submarine for the Mars Defense Perimeter drone main hull. At first I thought it was a Revell kit but the surface details didn't match, while the Dragon model matches perfectly. Interestingly, the sub model is constructed with metal screws rather than modeling cement.

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/dragon-1001-typhoon-class--108659

I"m not sure how helpful this information is for your project but I get the strong impression that the Minuteman class from the game Star Trek Legacy is meant to resemble these Mars-defense ships. The nacelles are different, to closely match those on the NX-01, but the shape, including the wings and the way they intersect with upper an pod, seem close enough that I wonder if the intent of the game designers was to suggest that the Mars-defense ships are Minuteman class ships converted automation, the same way that TOS had old freighters converted to automation. The submarine models composing the newer nacelles seen on the actual Mars-defense model(s) could be because this ship has been upgraded over time from older nacelle styles.

All this is just speculation, but maybe seeking to learn more about the ship design process for that game could help you find out more about the Mars-defense ships. I would think that the game designers could have had access to behind-the-scenes images of ship models or at least better photographs than were released to the general public by 2006, when the game came out. The similarity between these two, especially when they could have used the Daedalus class and instead saved it for use a medical ship class, is noticeable.

 

[trekshark]

I have no real world answers or information for any of these points, unfortunately. However, I do have an in-universe thought about this one:
- I like to think that this saucer hulk is from an original (or pre-2380s refit) California-class.

The shape of that saucer reminds me of this from one of the calendars https://memory-beta.fandom.com/wiki/Meni

 

[Dukhat]

I"m not sure how helpful this information is for your project but I get the strong impression that the Minuteman class from the game Star Trek Legacy is meant to resemble these Mars-defense ships. The nacelles are different, to closely match those on the NX-01, but the shape, including the wings and the way they intersect with upper an pod, seem close enough that I wonder if the intent of the game designers was to suggest that the Mars-defense ships are Minuteman class ships converted automation, the same way that TOS had old freighters converted to automation. The submarine models composing the newer nacelles seen on the actual Mars-defense model(s) could be because this ship has been upgraded over time from older nacelle styles.

All this is just speculation, but maybe seeking to learn more about the ship design process for that game could help you find out more about the Mars-defense ships. I would think that the game designers could have had access to behind-the-scenes images of ship models or at least better photographs than were released to the general public by 2006, when the game came out. The similarity between these two, especially when they could have used the Daedalus class and instead saved it for use a medical ship class, is noticeable.

It kinda looks similar. But to me it looks more like a cross between a Daedalus sphere hull and an Excelsior secondary hull, only ENT-ified.

 

[Mres_was_framed!]

It kinda looks similar. But to me it looks more like a cross between a Daedalus sphere hull and an Excelsior secondary hull, only ENT-ified.

I don't disagree at all. I'm just suggesting that, if I were in the game designer's shoes, I could be inclined to flesh out the Mars-defender design into an early starship. It does only kind of look similar, but it is awfully similar for a totally scratch-made game design when they could have just used the Daedalus, especially since they already had a Daedalus model they were using for the medical ships. They even called it a "Minuteman," and that role is exactly what the automated version did above Mars. I thought Memory-Alpha called the Mars-defenders Minutemen at one point, but it does not seem to say that anymore, if it ever did.

 

[Dukhat]

9. Several kitbashing rounds were done for DS9’s “A Time to Stand” for wrecked background ships in the ‘Frankenstein’ fleet at the start of the episode. Are there any photos of other DS9 kitbashes built besides the ones we already know of?

Very small update: Doug Drexler posted a reply on Facebook by Judy Elkins about the kitbashing rounds. One of the responses was from Lou Zutavern, a professional modelmaker who assisted Greg Jein with various Trek projects during his time working on Deep Space Nine. He mentioned that he had built several kitbashes for Gary Hutzel to be used in 'A Time to Stand.' I've reached out to him to see if he has any photos of the models but he has yet to reply back. I'm not holding my breath, but you never know.