10 reasons why TOS is better than TNG

[T'Girl]

families and children

And don't give me that planets and starbases are just as dangerous crap because they aren't

Picard (from The Neutral Zone): "Two Federation outposts in sector three zero have been destroyed. There's been no communication with Federation starbases in sector three one since stardate 41903.2."

While you might make the argument that there are no families on "outposts," if there are families on starships, there are families on starbases . Even during TOS, there were children present (Jamie Finney). If starbases are anything like modern military bases, they are flowing with families. Picard statement sound like they just lost two or more starbases.

That likely represents more families and children lost, than could possible have been lost on all the Starfleet ships we saw destroyed and damage in the entire seven years of TNG.

Starbases aren't just as dangerous, they're more dangerous.

 

[The Dominion]

And don't forget that Kirk really knows how to get it on with the ladies. Picard just couldn't match his skill.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

I prefer TOS, but I like TNG a lot too, so I feel I can give some reasons:

-less reliance on technobabble-Scotty didn't say things like "the bolognium generator has a broken thelicon coil and we'll need to fix it with a frugalon spanner."

-TOS had more of a sense of fun and was less stiff and self-conscious.

-TOS had a much more reasonable and defensible Prime Directive before TNG came and ruined it beyond recognition

Agreed

Picard statement sound like they just lost two or more starbases.

No they didn't they lost two outposts which are smaller and more LIGHTLY defended, Thus easier to blow up and why they probably use those when they need a ground based facility or station blown up. Hence why its called an OUTPOST not a STARBASE.

That likely represents more families and children lost, than could possible have been lost on all the Starfleet ships we saw destroyed and damage in the entire seven years of TNG.

Again Outpost =/= Starbase, plus the Neutral Zone outposts are basically bunkers dug into asteroids that monitor the Zone to make sure the Romulans aren't up to stuff, that's not something that requires a large crew to do, and a doubt they have civilians living in the tiny little outposts, what with the space considerations.

Starbases aren't just as dangerous, they're more dangerous.

Becuase they are attacked just as frequently as star ships

 

[Rowdy Roddy McDowall]

Anwar wrote ''I don't see what's wrong with a Psychiatrist onboard, even TOS had them at least once.''
I'd never object to a psychiatrist on classic ENTERPRISE. Kirk especially could use one. My preference for Classic doesn't excuse some of Kirky's hypocritical shenanigans......which is why I love it when McCoy gets to call him on it. Even Spock could use a good shrink. (''Why must you fight your way back to consciousness? Couldn't you just try waking up?'')
I wouldn't object to a psychiatrist on TNG, either. Particularly FOR Troi.
Because I object to Troi.

OneAngryRomulan mentioned earlier how the holodeck was continually malfunctioning. There's another strike against TNG. Weren't there at least seven incidents in which key crew members were trapped inside it, or endangered by lapsed saftety protocols? Holodecks are wonderful devices, and it's a shame TOS live-action never had them, but it seems it's all too easy for protagonists to get wounded and killed. I'll admit it helped Picard waste a few Borg in FIRST CONTACT, but something so consistently malfunctioning requires an absolute foolproof system.So....

11. The Holodeck's too dangerous.

12. Roddenberry strived to LESSEN crew conflict on the TNG Enterprise. If you have a worthy drama, shouldn't you be
working to increase conflict? Otherwise, it's like playing the children's level of Atari Berzerk for 36 hours straight.

 

[T'Girl]

Picard statement sound like they just lost two or more starbases.

No they didn't they lost two outposts ...

Picard: "There's been no communication with Federation starbases in sector three one since stardate 41903.2."

I was referring to the starbases (plural) that Picard spoke of.

Again Outpost =/= Starbase, plus the Neutral Zone outposts ...

Again I was referring to the multiple starbases.

Starbases aren't just as dangerous, they're more dangerous.

Becuase they are attacked just as frequently as star ships

No because when you completely destroy a ship, you lose dozens of families, when you do the same to a base, you lose hundreds or thousands of families in a single attack.

I was raised on military bases, some of the bigger bases have over five thousand families, not just five thousand individual people, that's five thousand combinations of spouses and multiple children. At one point my on-base family had seven people in it.

Even if you lose hundreds of ships for every base you lose, the bases would still account for more family death.

What makes a ship or a base or a planet dangerous, is the incident of injury and death. How likely you are statistically to experience either one.

 

[GemHaters]

For all who put in their two cents worth, please give your particular ten reasons why the Original Series has vastly less suckage than the Next Regurgitation Generation. Or, if you are misguided or born after 1975, tell us why you feel it is TNG which is superior to TOS. Here are my chief ten reasons TOS is king.

1. No Troi. Nuff said.

2. No teenage regulars (though Wesley seemed to inherit an offshoot of the dorky kids' costumes from TOS).

3. When Kirk smirks, he has his reasons. When Riker smirks, it's almost always at Picard, and seems kind of....ah....um...

4. Consistently dangerously body count and crew kill ratio of 16 percent (or 60 out of 430 or so).

5. Doesn't fill valuable minutes of script with totally useless technobabble. The terms on TOS were valid and understandable.

6. No ''way teams.'' I call them way teams because Picard pronounces it so. TOS has ''parties'', and they're so hot and heavy you may not even survive them.

7. Uhura and Scotty. No TNG supporting characters can truly compare to them.

8. No cutesy names like Worf or Data. (Klingons never had names ending in ''f'' until Worf. It's almost like they wanted to make him sound cuddly).

9. No children or nurseries were permanent occupants on the ENTERPRISE. So there was no need to slow down the action on their account or disengage the saucer section.

10. Most importantly, Kirk didn't surrender his ship ten minutes into his first episode/mission to a soap opera actor in a funny hat.

Now for the rest of you.

That said...

1. No Troi?? You misspelled Doctor Beverly Crusher...

2. Eh, whatever...

3. Kind of "ah, uhm" what??? What's on your mind, hmm??? Going to call Riker "the gay"? I frigin dare you...

4. So body counts apparently made TOS more worth watching? Riiiight...TNG and beyond the death looks more realistic because the special effects are far superior. Your argument is invalid.

5. Doesn't fill script with technobabble? Just because you don't know what a Quantum Flux Regulator is, doesn't make it better or worse than TOS. The rest of us are doing just fine...

6. I'm not even addressing this one, you're just plain ignorant...

7. Scotty maybe. Uhura? A communications officer, wow, sooo important that TNG didn't have one, Worf handled all the hailing frequencies...

8. Cutesy names? And Spock calling The Doomsday Machine the "planet killer" is so sophisticated and cool.

9. Ugh, because Government's don't have civilians working for them. And, Starfleet Officers aren't allowed to have families?

10. Proceed to my signature...

 

[Anwar]

Troi just wore too many hats (figuratively) as well as hideous costumes and hairstyles (literally).

Well, Spock did this too. He was the Science Officer and Exec Officer.

Your point about technobabble is not reasonable. Are you saying that if TOS had gone 4 more seasons, they would have been filled with technobabbly episodes?

Yeah, maybe.

TOS had "landing parties." TNG had "away teams." Regardless of Patrick Stewart's pronunciation, it greatly irks me to see TOS fanfiction where the writers use the term "away teams." That's NOT what they had! Frankly, the term "away team" seems very childish.

Eh, semantics. Either is perfectly valid.

The reason children were dropped from TNG was because the Federation wound up at war with the Borg, the Dominion, etc. If everything had stayed peaceful, I suspect the crews' families would have been allowed to stay on the ships.

And in TOS they were in a Cold War with the Klingons most of the time too. Maybe in TOS peacetimes (which we never saw) they'd entertain the idea of families onboard.

Taking unofficial Treklit canon into account, Kirk DID run into the Q Continuum in the form of Trelane. Did he surrender? NO. Instead, he challenged Trelane to a duel. Now why didn't Picard think of doing that?

Trelane didn't demand the ship's surrender, the landing party had already gone down there to encounter him. Q was more direct and demanded their surrender, and once he had them Picard DID challenge him in the whole Trial of Humanity thing.

EDIT: And for Sonak:

-less soap opera-esque episode storylines, like "cost of living," "lessons," etc.-if TOS had character stuff, it was part of an overall sci-fi storyline, not an episode unto itself.

TOS only had three seasons, and three main characters. It's easier to avoid soap opera style stuff with a smaller cast and fewer episodes.

-TOS had a much more reasonable and defensible Prime Directive before TNG came and ruined it beyond recognition

I'm still not sure what the TOS PD was.

-nothing in TNG to compare with the central trio of TOS

Again, TOS only had those three as characters and they also were a Freudian Trio (Id, Ego, Superego) that functioned more or less as one character unit. TNG was an ensemble and couldn't do the Freud thing/character unit with their cast.

 

[BillJ]

I'm still not sure what the TOS PD was.

Don't fuck around with other cultures unless it's necessary. Simple and to the point.

 

[Timewalker]

Spock's duties made sense in tandem - he was a superlatively organized person, and well-able to take on the work required of an Executive Officer. Troi... counselor, protocol officer, linguist, ship's babysitter, basically whatever the script called for. And SPOCK did not wear hideous outfits, and his hairstyles were not outrageously over-the-top STUPID.

Granted, there were some excellent instances of Troi being a proper counselor. But I never liked either her character or the actress.


On another point... TOS: Spock has impeccable posture and dignity. TNG: Riker has sloppy posture and no dignity at all, judging from the way he slouches in his chair on the Bridge and seems not to understand that it's not just ladies who should sit nicely instead of "advertising it."

 

[Mutai Sho-Rin]

Now for the rest of you.

That said...


6. I'm not even addressing this one, you're just plain ignorant....[/QUOTE]

Between the cartoon and this line, you're on the razor's edge of a flaming warning. Don't push it.

 

[Gov Kodos]

Or one could take the whole list humorously, and find some of the many other versions online, and laugh a little.

 

[GemHaters]

Or one could take the whole list humorously, and find some of the many other versions online, and laugh a little.

I only laugh when something is funny.

 

[Gov Kodos]

Or one could take the whole list humorously, and find some of the many other versions online, and laugh a little.

I only laugh when something is funny.

Your taking this more seriously than it deserves, it seems.

 

[Rowdy Roddy McDowall]

Everytime a contrary poster fails to grasp salient opinions they accuse the previous poster of trolling. Even if that were true, there are some good trolls. But I'll ignore the latent bigotry and just say watch BALANCE OF TERROR. Let me also say this about that.

GemFromTheEmpathOrWhatverItWas babbled:


''1. No Troi?? You misspelled Doctor Beverly Crusher...''

You mispelled frigging.

''2. Eh, whatever...''

Indeed.

''3. Kind of "ah, uhm" what??? What's on your mind, hmm??? Going to call Riker "the gay"? I frigin dare you...''

You did it again. See number one.

''4. So body counts apparently made TOS more worth watching? Riiiight...TNG and beyond the death looks more realistic because the special effects are far superior. Your argument is invalid.''

Your third sentence is ineverything. And I thought MY stream of consciousness was benignly bizarre. ''Beyond the death looks more realistic??'' Wouldn't it be better to around the survivors a perimeter create? Body counts made TOS more entertaining. There's little doubt of that. That's why LOST IN SPACE was ultimately boring as nobody ever died.

''5. Doesn't fill script with technobabble? Just because you don't know what a Quantum Flux Regulator is, doesn't make it better or worse than TOS. The rest of us are doing just fine...''

I know what I'd like to do with that Quantum Flux Regulator.

''6. I'm not even addressing this one, you're just plain ignorant...''

Herbert!!! Herbert!!! Herbert!!!! Herbert!!!

''7. Scotty maybe. Uhura? A communications officer, wow, sooo important that TNG didn't have one, Worf handled all the hailing frequencies...''

Scotty, definitely. Worf also handled the bridge intruders each month and inevitably got flipped on his rear end while Data saved the day. That's why I call him Flipper. The poor guy is multi-tasking too much. If communications are so unimportant, would you surrender your cell phone? Personally, I never use them. I conceded Uhura had less to do in a previous post. Had she benefited from the later series' shared spotlight, her character would be a hell of a lot more entertaining than Purple Poison--I mean, Deanna Troi.

''8. Cutesy names? And Spock calling The Doomsday Machine the "planet killer" is so sophisticated and cool.''

What would you have him call a killer of planets? A yellow-bellied sapsucker? Or a Mega-Bugle? Non Sequitur to the max. If these were facts, they'd be uncoordinated. There is nothing cute or cutesy about THE DOOMSDAY MACHINE. Sophistication and coolness, yes. That episode's got it in spades.

''9. Ugh, because Government's don't have civilians working for them. And, Starfleet Officers aren't allowed to have families?''

Kids and high body counts should not mix. Not even the Olsen Twins deserve that kind of chaos.

''10. Proceed to my signature...''

Negative. I'd rather proceed to the can. It's more stimulating on the whole.

 

[T'Bonz]

Dudes, this is GTD fodder. Given the tone of discussion, I don't think it's wise to shift it over there.

If you need to compare both shows, restart the thread in GTD.

And keep the partisan bickering out of here, bitte. Thanks.