TOS in the 29th century...

[Warped9]

I also don't consider anything done in JJtrek to have any credibility whatsoever.

That is too bad. Especially when you clearly went for the same idea of placing of the bridge not at the very top of the saucer but embedding it into the superstructure.

This isn't at all a new idea. I recall discussions way back in the '70s when some put forth the notion of placing the Bridge more within the main structure of the ship. So it's hardly a new idea in JJtrek.

Even in TAS they added another exit door to the Bridge and in Franz Joseph's blueprints he added a service corridor around the Bridge. In TMP they started to play with expanding the area around the Bridge by adding two turbolift ports and an extension to a docking port. Then TNG came along and we have the CO's ready room and the main conference room just off the Bridge, and who knows what else. So it's hardly a new idea.

While my designs are meant to have some familiar TOS elements to them I also draw upon things I've seen in the original Trek films, the various Trek series and other SF shows and films. There are also ideas I've picked up on in SF lit as well as SF artists and illustrators through the years. Then there's also design in the real world as influence.

 

[beamMe]

So it's hardly a new idea in JJtrek.

Perhaps not. But it wasn't until 2009 that we got an "official" design with that particular idea implemented.

So, while you give that creative team no "credibility whatsoever", you just got right ahead and did what they already did (better).

 

[BigJake]

Perhaps not. But it wasn't until 2009 that we got an "official" design with that particular idea implemented.

a) This has zilch to do with whether JJTrek was necessary to the idea, and
b) Implemented-as-a-glorified-Apple-store is not everyone's idea of "better" by a long shot.

Get over it.

 

[beamMe]

Perhaps not. But it wasn't until 2009 that we got an "official" design with that particular idea implemented.

a) This has zilch to do with whether JJTrek was necessary to the idea, and

Who said it was "necessary"? They did it. And now Warped does it. Shoots that "no credibility whatsoever" thing right in the foot.

b) Implemented-as-a-glorified-Apple-store is not everyone's idea of "better" by a long shot.

Get over it.

Ever looked at/inside an actual Apple store? They look nothing like that bridge.

 

[BigJake]

Who said it was "necessary"? [etc.]

Independently deriving an idea used in a radically different form in a JJTrek movie hardly amounts to much in the way of endorsing JJTrek. That's not far off from saying "JJTrek used [floors / the colour white / a shuttle bay] and so did you, therefore..." It's just sophistry. The ideas have a common ancestry, that's all that can be said about them.

Ever looked at/inside an actual Apple store?

Fewer curves and less lens flare.

 

[Warped9]

I cannot claim to borrowing an idea or being influenced by films I don't even look at.

Where did I get the idea for lowering the Bridge more into the main structure?

Firstly, it was an idea long discussed in regards to Trek going back to at least the '70s. I might or might not have even read of it in one of David Gerrold's books written back then. That in tandem with reading others' opinions on the subject through the years.

Secondly, seeing what they did in TNG is pretty much the same thing since the Bridge is no longer isolated at the very top of the ship. So right there TNG beats JJtrek by two decades in terms of establishing the idea for Trek.

Thirdly, going back some years there have been numerous discussions (many right here on the TBBS) regarding the orientation of the TOS Bridge and how to reconcile the Bridge facing directly forward with the turbolift offset at 36 degrees. There simply isn't enough room for the turbolift if the Bridge is actually facing directly forward. One solution, though, and put forth by more than few, was to lower the Bridge more into the B/C deck superstructure until you have enough clearance for the offset turbolift. Another solution is to upscale the overall size of the ship.

So in the end the idea was alive and well long before JJtrek came along and those sources are what influenced me directly.

 

[beamMe]

Ever looked at/inside an actual Apple store?

Fewer curves and less lens flare.

And radically different.

I cannot claim to borrowing an idea or being influenced by films I don't even look at.

Is that so? Then you pull statements like

I also don't consider anything done in JJtrek to have any credibility whatsoever.

just out of thin air?

Where did I get the idea for lowering the Bridge more into the main structure?

Firstly, it was an idea long discussed in regards to Trek going back to at least the '70s. I might or might not have even read of it in one of David Gerrold's books written back then. That in tandem with reading others' opinions on the subject through the years.

Secondly, seeing what they did in TNG is pretty much the same thing since the Bridge is no longer isolated at the very top of the ship. So right there TNG beats JJtrek by two decades in terms of establishing the idea for Trek.

No, but it still is at the very top. So right there TNG didn't change a thing.

Thirdly, going back some years there have been numerous discussions (many right here on the TBBS) regarding the orientation of the TOS Bridge and how to reconcile the Bridge facing directly forward with the turbolift offset at 36 degrees. There simply isn't enough room for the turbolift if the Bridge is actually facing directly forward. One solution, though, and put forth by more than few, was to lower the Bridge more into the B/C deck superstructure until you have enough clearance for the offset turbolift. Another solution is to upscale the overall size of the ship.

So in the end the idea was alive and well long before JJtrek came along and those sources are what influenced me directly.

Yes, but those two movies with "no credibility whatsoever" used that idea and actually implemented that design-change five years before you came up with the design for this ship.

The people who worked on those two productions apparently are influenced by the same sources you are influenced by, have similar ideas you have; why they are supposed to have "no credibility whatsoever" when you and they draw from the same influences, I don't understand.

 

[Warped9]

^^ The knowledge that JJtrek did something similar was brought to me by you since it never registered with me. I've also made no secret of my utter disdain for JJtrek and, no, I will not give them credit for something that existed long before them and done by TNG twenty some years earlier. And, yes, it is the same damned thing.

If you didn't know it before then you know now. Don't bother bringing JJtrek into a discussion in regard to my work because I'll just be turning a deaf ear regarding films I hold nothing but contempt for. The only thing I found mildly redeeming was the shade of red for the support services uniform.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Perhaps not. But it wasn't until 2009 that we got an "official" design with that particular idea implemented.

a) This has zilch to do with whether JJTrek was necessary to the idea, and
b) Implemented-as-a-glorified-Apple-store is not everyone's idea of "better" by a long shot.

Get over it.

Is it really necessary to derail ANOTHER thread to bitch about a five year old movie?

 

[BigJake]

^ Is it really necessary to derail ANOTHER thread into Ineptly Defending the Honor of JJTrek?

I mean, you're on Warped9's thread here. And his views can't be any secret to you by now, surely. He's not the one "derailing" in mentioning them. Get over it.

 

[Warped9]

Let's not blow this out of proportion. I didn't know that JJtrek used a similar idea until someone mentioned it here. I simply stand by the fact that TNG was really the first in Trek to explore this idea of the Bridge not being totally isolated at the top of the ship and by having other facilities on the same level. And that the idea itself (as far as Trek is concerned) predates TNG in terms of being discussed.

So JJtrek can't claim credit for something that already existed for decades as an idea and in execution.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

^ Is it really necessary to derail ANOTHER thread into Ineptly Defending the Honor of JJTrek?

I mean, you're on Warped9's thread here. And his views can't be any secret to you by now, surely. He's not the one "derailing" in mentioning them. Get over it.

No he's just the one making a unneeded petty insult towards JJtrek when someone just pointed out that they used a similar idea to what he was doing.

 

[Warped9]

^ Is it really necessary to derail ANOTHER thread into Ineptly Defending the Honor of JJTrek?

I mean, you're on Warped9's thread here. And his views can't be any secret to you by now, surely. He's not the one "derailing" in mentioning them. Get over it.

No he's just the one making a unneeded petty insult towards JJtrek when someone just pointed out that they used a similar idea to what he was doing.

It isn't petty when it's true.

 

[Albertese]

...
I simply stand by the fact that TNG was really the first in Trek to explore this idea of the Bridge not being totally isolated at the top of the ship and by having other facilities on the same level.

...

In a sense, this goes back to TMP, as that Deck One had two rooms, the bridge and the airlock that Spock boards the ship through.

--Alex

 

[BigJake]

^ Is it really necessary to derail ANOTHER thread into Ineptly Defending the Honor of JJTrek?

I mean, you're on Warped9's thread here. And his views can't be any secret to you by now, surely. He's not the one "derailing" in mentioning them. Get over it.

No he's just the one making a unneeded petty insult . . .

The "unneeded petty insult" in question is his opinion. It happens to be on his thread. I don't see why it should worry you, nobody's holding a gun to your head and forcing you to read it, it's not like you can possibly not know that this is what Warped9's opinion is before opening his thread and reading it.

 

[Warped9]

...
I simply stand by the fact that TNG was really the first in Trek to explore this idea of the Bridge not being totally isolated at the top of the ship and by having other facilities on the same level.

...

In a sense, this goes back to TMP, as that Deck One had two rooms, the bridge and the airlock that Spock boards the ship through.

--Alex

True. Indeed as I stated upthread a few posts Franz Joseph already added a service corridor around the bridge in his blueprints taking off from the idea seen in TAS of another exit door added besides the turbolift.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

...
I simply stand by the fact that TNG was really the first in Trek to explore this idea of the Bridge not being totally isolated at the top of the ship and by having other facilities on the same level.

...

In a sense, this goes back to TMP, as that Deck One had two rooms, the bridge and the airlock that Spock boards the ship through.

--Alex

True. Indeed as I stated upthread a few posts Franz Joseph already added a service corridor around the bridge in his blueprints taking off from the idea seen in TAS of another exit door added besides the turbolift.

I think it's clear, based on scenes when they evidently forgot to put the door elements in and exposed what was behind the doors, that the secondary bridge exit in TAS was to a second turbolift.

 

[Warped9]

In a sense, this goes back to TMP, as that Deck One had two rooms, the bridge and the airlock that Spock boards the ship through.

--Alex

True. Indeed as I stated upthread a few posts Franz Joseph already added a service corridor around the bridge in his blueprints taking off from the idea seen in TAS of another exit door added besides the turbolift.

I think it's clear, based on scenes when they evidently forgot to put the door elements in and exposed what was behind the doors, that the secondary bridge exit in TAS was to a second turbolift.

Like a lot of things on TAS it was wishful thinking. Setting FJ's blueprints aside (because he drastically changes the shape of the outer hull) to get a service corridor, another exit or another turbolift and a forward facing bridge on the TOS Enterprise you would have no choice but to lower the bridge down into the A/B Deck structure. And hence this establishes that the idea of lowering the bridge into the main hull and having other stuff around it goes back decades and long before JJtrek came along.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

^ Is it really necessary to derail ANOTHER thread into Ineptly Defending the Honor of JJTrek?

I mean, you're on Warped9's thread here. And his views can't be any secret to you by now, surely. He's not the one "derailing" in mentioning them. Get over it.

No he's just the one making a unneeded petty insult . . .

The "unneeded petty insult" in question is his opinion. It happens to be on his thread. I don't see why it should worry you,

And I don't see why it's any of your damned business what other people do with their time.

 

[BigJake]

And I don't see why it's any of your damned business what other people do with their time.

Rather interesting sentiment from someone who a few posts ago was going to be telling us all what not to talk about, wouldn't you say?

But seriously. What is the point of coming onto a thread you know perfectly well was started by someone who is not a NuTrek fan, and then spinning out like this when you discover that yes, shock of shocks, they're still not a fan? How can that be surprising to you? What's the upside of getting so worked up about it?

* * * * * *

Anyhoo. For Warped9, looking back at that briefing room design, just a little side-point of curiosity: how do you envisage mobile devices working in your 29th century setting? A lot of meeting room tables today feature ports where you can plug in data devices, for instance. Would your setting have some (more sophisticated) version of that? Would your Starfleet officers carry, or have embedded in their uniforms, so kind of all-in-one data device?