Former students. Saavik wasn't under Spock's tutelage when they married. And so there's nothing wrong with them getting together at that point.
Question about Spock Prime's character.
- Thread starter xavier
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Former students. Saavik wasn't under Spock's tutelage when they married. And so there's nothing wrong with them getting together at that point.
I just find it unoriginal.
Unoriginal, but them getting married at some point following his Pon Farr in Star Trek III is in line with what we know about Vulcans and their mating cycle.
Basically we have multiple canon things that may of may not relate to each other.
We know Picard had met Spock at one point prior to Unification.
We know Picard had met Sarek at his son's wedding.
We know Vulcans tend to marry base on Pon Farr for mating.
We know Saavik helped Spock through his Pon Farr on Genesis.
The is no concrete information that Spock was actually married to anyone. But the pieces would imply that Spock is married, and a likely female for him to marry based on what we know of Vulcan biology and marriage practices, is Saavik.
Basically we have multiple canon things that may of may not relate to each other.
We know Picard had met Spock at one point prior to Unification.
We know Picard had met Sarek at his son's wedding.
We know Vulcans tend to marry base on Pon Farr for mating.
We know Saavik helped Spock through his Pon Farr on Genesis.
The is no concrete information that Spock was actually married to anyone. But the pieces would imply that Spock is married, and a likely female for him to marry based on what we know of Vulcan biology and marriage practices, is Saavik.
Maybe Vulcans don't have silly rules about doing your students.
McCoy being a doctor you can kind of buy the idea he'd scrape by until Farpoint. Checkov living into the post-Nemesis era is just a contrivance to allow Koenig to work together with Tim Russ. It's not very plausible, let alone for Checkov to still be healthy enough to hold a high position.
Eh, I'm gonna go further down the tangent, but the reason why we have rules about teachers dating students is because of the power dynamic of authority that involves experience and emotions, both of which can be abused. Conflicts of interest can also arise. But if Vulcans are taught to be (mostly) emotionless and in total control, does that mean then that the emotional factor is rendered moot for the most part?
Are you kidding? Chekov's got the recuperative powers of … well, Rasputin. One good scream and he'd come back even from mild cases of death. (``Join the club,'' says Spock.)
I thought it was just "frowned upon".
The age difference would mean a lot to me. It's hard to keep graduate student TA's who may be only two or three years or so older than their students from fraternizing once in a while. When there is little age difference, I've always found it a question of individual ethics, not general policy. I married a former student, but we didn't even start dating until well after she took her last class from me. Still, we essentially "met" and the initial attraction was in the classes. Didn't affect her grades, though. She'll remind everyone that she got a C+ and a B in the two classes she took from me.
If it's two of about the same age who have an obvious and real attraction for each other and can handle the situation, so be it. This is college, after all. If it's a someone more in authority by age and rank that is using his or her class as a dating pool, that's different. It can still be a sincere and real attraction, but it will draw attention, scrutiny, and even gossip. (It's hard to keep these things private.)
I can't imagine Spock having is integrity compromised by a student with whom he has a relationship. If the relationship is sincere, I can't imagine Saavik taking advantage of it.
Many people assume that McCoy's status as a quasquicentenarian (and then some) is normal, or at least not that unusual. I tend to believe the opposite. I do recall a line from a novel where McCoy is asked who holds the record for human longevity and simply replies; "You're looking at him." (Not allowing for timeslips and Flintian immortals.) It may well be that more and more people approach maximum human life span but I don't think the line has been moved all that much.
^ When we first met Elias Vaughn, he was over a hundred years old, and was in absolute peak condition.
But like I said, by the time they married, Saavik had long since STOPPED being Spock's student. Nobody was taking advantage of anyone.
But like I said, by the time they married, Saavik had long since STOPPED being Spock's student. Nobody was taking advantage of anyone.
TUC:
Kirk: "You know something, Spock.... Everybody's human."
Spock: "I find that remark... insulting."
IMO the movie does further distance Spock from strict logic to a more diplomatic approach, but I would not go so far as to say he was acting 'human'
Kirk: "You know something, Spock.... Everybody's human."
Spock: "I find that remark... insulting."
IMO the movie does further distance Spock from strict logic to a more diplomatic approach, but I would not go so far as to say he was acting 'human'
Yeah, I know. I was just speaking in a broader term that was probably more applicable to Spock and Uhura. What happened to Spock and Saavik is more like the story of my wife and I.
I do not get it. People are criticizing savik for dating spock as a student but they are somehow given AOS Uhura a free pass when she was also aos spock's student.
I do not get it. People are criticizing savik for dating spock as a student but they are somehow given AOS Uhura a free pass when she was also aos spock's student.
Actually, that was heavy criticized when Star Trek (2009) came out. In 2009. Five-plus years ago.
I do not get it. People are criticizing savik for dating spock as a student but they are somehow given AOS Uhura a free pass when she was also aos spock's student.
Actually, that was heavy criticized when Star Trek (2009) came out. In 2009. Five-plus years ago.
I do not think that was heavily criticized. majority of fans do not even care but I do think a few fans said the same thing but the thing is with the spock/uhura relationship there was a clause to it. uhura does mention she was his student. she used past tense when she asked spock to put her on the Enterprise.
spock also implied that star fleet boards or authoritative figures were aware of their relationship and this was why he did not want to show favoritism. its not like star fleet is high school. star fleet is more like a university and a lot of teachers and students date, a few are even married. with the spock and uhura relationship I never got the feeling that they were acting like high school kids secretly smooshing eachother when no one was looking, there relationship was more like an open secret in a setting of adults.
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If you count the nutrek comics as canon, then S/U started dating when she wasn't one of his students anymore.
in fact, she does wait that precise moment to ask him out. (scan)
...and people did criticize them in the 2009 movie for the implied teacher-student thing even though she did use the past when she said she had been one of his students.
IMHO they could simply be private about it and he might have been worried about the appearance of favoritism more for her sake than his.
I don't think that anyone would actually have the guts to question a vulcan about such things as having a favorite student (do they even have them?) since they're known as a race that they won't value anything more than the pure facts (getting a compliment from a vulcan must be an achievement itself) , and I think Uhura had her academy records speaking for themselves and enough to shut up anyone who would even try to call Spock 'biased' for anything.
The human woman though would be the easy target because humans DO discredit their own kind using this kind of pretexts ('she's dating the boss sleeping her way on the best ship'), regardless it being fair or not or if that person truly has a curriculum that proves they have earned everything they have. The proof is in the pudding when some fans do criticize her for the relationship. I actually read people bashing Uhura with claims she was sleeping with the boss for personal gain even in this forum.
as for Spock/Saavik
I think that the bit by Picard mentioning Sarek son's wedding was one big tease, they never said it was Spock but it left you wondering and thinking it could only be him. We don't know who he married and the novels aren't considered canon.
Nevertheless, the thing with Saavik didn't seem to be a relationship based on choice and love and I sort of feel bad for both of them if they really were forced to marry later just because she helped him in st3.
It's not the difference in age or student-teacher thing (though, I honestly saw him as a father figure for her) that bothers me as it is the fact that it wasn't actually portrayed, on screen, as a genuine relationship.
Wasn't Saavik supposed to have a romantic relationship with David Marcus too? (of course he died anyway...)
vulcans do have stronger emotions than the humans that's why they control them and they almost have a phobia about the feelings. It's their weakness, but don't tell them about it because they think that the ones weak are the humans
Wasn't said that pre-Surak vulcans almost destroyed their race because of their violent emotions?
So yes, when you see nuSpock violent and full of anger those probably are his vulcan emotions showing up and saying hello to us.
We might wrongly assume that when he's emotional he's being human but in reality his emotions might be as vulcan as they are human.
that said, I can see the vulcan race of this timeline becoming different than the one we know from tos. They're tested and challenged in a way that the other vulcans never were. Who could ever imagine what happened to them? They destroyed their home and they lost so much that day. Too much. The comics have already implied that a lot of them aren't able to bear the grief and now they have to question their traditions too.
something like:
in fact, she does wait that precise moment to ask him out. (scan)
...and people did criticize them in the 2009 movie for the implied teacher-student thing even though she did use the past when she said she had been one of his students.
IMHO they could simply be private about it and he might have been worried about the appearance of favoritism more for her sake than his.
I don't think that anyone would actually have the guts to question a vulcan about such things as having a favorite student (do they even have them?) since they're known as a race that they won't value anything more than the pure facts (getting a compliment from a vulcan must be an achievement itself) , and I think Uhura had her academy records speaking for themselves and enough to shut up anyone who would even try to call Spock 'biased' for anything.
The human woman though would be the easy target because humans DO discredit their own kind using this kind of pretexts ('she's dating the boss sleeping her way on the best ship'), regardless it being fair or not or if that person truly has a curriculum that proves they have earned everything they have. The proof is in the pudding when some fans do criticize her for the relationship. I actually read people bashing Uhura with claims she was sleeping with the boss for personal gain even in this forum.
as for Spock/Saavik
I think that the bit by Picard mentioning Sarek son's wedding was one big tease, they never said it was Spock but it left you wondering and thinking it could only be him. We don't know who he married and the novels aren't considered canon.
Nevertheless, the thing with Saavik didn't seem to be a relationship based on choice and love and I sort of feel bad for both of them if they really were forced to marry later just because she helped him in st3.
It's not the difference in age or student-teacher thing (though, I honestly saw him as a father figure for her) that bothers me as it is the fact that it wasn't actually portrayed, on screen, as a genuine relationship.
Wasn't Saavik supposed to have a romantic relationship with David Marcus too? (of course he died anyway...)
vulcans do have stronger emotions than the humans that's why they control them and they almost have a phobia about the feelings. It's their weakness, but don't tell them about it because they think that the ones weak are the humans
Wasn't said that pre-Surak vulcans almost destroyed their race because of their violent emotions?
So yes, when you see nuSpock violent and full of anger those probably are his vulcan emotions showing up and saying hello to us.
We might wrongly assume that when he's emotional he's being human but in reality his emotions might be as vulcan as they are human.
that said, I can see the vulcan race of this timeline becoming different than the one we know from tos. They're tested and challenged in a way that the other vulcans never were. Who could ever imagine what happened to them? They destroyed their home and they lost so much that day. Too much. The comics have already implied that a lot of them aren't able to bear the grief and now they have to question their traditions too.
something like:
‘Frankly, I was extremely jealous of his scenes with Zoe Saldana and I think it’s totally unfair that I never got to do that. I will never forgive the writers and the director, for having put me in this position, to have to be watching that, rather than participating’
sincerely, Spock Prime (Leonard Nimoy )
sincerely, Spock Prime (Leonard Nimoy )
I do not get it. People are criticizing savik for dating spock as a student but they are somehow given AOS Uhura a free pass when she was also aos spock's student.
Actually, that was heavy criticized when Star Trek (2009) came out. In 2009. Five-plus years ago.
I do not think that was heavily criticized.
I see that you joined only recently. Believe me, there were threads upon threads criticizing Spock/Uhura (calling it Star Trek 90210, among other things, which is just ridiculous), and then other threads in defense of. And while a good chunk of those threads would appear logically on TrekBBS, they also popped up in other message boards I would frequent, even they weren't strictly Trek boards. But the fact that in inspired so so so much discussion on the board was proof alone that plenty of people had a problem with it.
The thing is, a majority doesn't need to get involved for something to be controversial, Trek or not. I can't possibly estimate percentages or ratios of how many posters were on one side or another, but people who go on TrekBBS aren't the majority of Trekkies; on the other hand, though, even small groups can raise a large ruckus, which can then lead to heavy, heavy criticism.
And then there's the other part of the equation: there are a number of fans who *do* care, but for them, caring means they are okay with or even support the idea.
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Doctorwhovian
Fleet Captain
Doesn't Uhura show up in some of the lost era novels set between TOS and TNG? I think there's one with her and Sisko (wearing a season 1/2 TNG uniform) on the cover set close to TNG.
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