LE: One Constant Star by David R. George III Review Thread (Spoilers!)

[Christopher]

Re: LE: One Constant Star by David R. George III Review Thread (Spoile

Did Burning Dreams mention the Excelsior's registry number? If not, then why can't it be the ship from TNG?

 

[Mage]

Re: LE: One Constant Star by David R. George III Review Thread (Spoile

It's not from any earlier novel, but not much more will be explained - what you infer from what you read in the prologue is pretty much what happened. No big mystery twist that shows up later.

Allright, good to know. I read some people commenting on Burning Dreams, a novel I haven't read, and was beginning to wonder if I should have.

 

[Jarvisimo]

Re: LE: One Constant Star by David R. George III Review Thread (Spoile

So far enjoying this, although only in the second or third chapter. One thing about this that I have noticed, as I have with other DRG books, is the occurance of 'DRG aliens' that no one else ever seems to reference - usually the Alonis, but also the Fruelians here and in Serpents. Does no one else ever use these aliens? It's like Christopher's fascinating Carnelian Regnancy.

Secondly, Sulu's relationship characterisation in the prologue is really interesting. It makes total sense in Trek's non-judging sexually utopian future. I am so glad DRG has not in any way said 'look at this weird future three-way' - it's just subtle and sweet.

 

[Paris]

Re: LE: One Constant Star by David R. George III Review Thread (Spoile

Did Burning Dreams mention the Excelsior's registry number? If not, then why can't it be the ship from TNG?

I don't think it did. This would, therefore, work. Starfleet maybe gave him a new Excelsior but didn't continue the registry number of NCC-2000. I have no problem buying that

 

[Christopher]

Re: LE: One Constant Star by David R. George III Review Thread (Spoile

Especially since the whole "reuse the same registry number with a letter added" practice is completely ridiculous. It makes no sense. If you want to reuse something for the sake of nostalgia, that's what the name is for. The number fulfills a separate purpose, giving functional catalog information about the physical ship itself, its class and characteristics, its age, things that could be useful for maintenance or classification and have nothing to do with nostalgia. Heck, part of the reason for having registry numbers is to differentiate ships that use the same name! For instance, USS Enterprise CV-6 was the WWII-era aircraft carrier and USS Enterprise CVN-65 was the nuclear carrrier commissioned in the '60s.

Canonically, the Enterprise is the only ship that's been saddled with that idiotic practice (the Yamato was in its first appearance, but that was changed in its second). And the second Defiant in DS9 was given the same number as its predecessor so that they could keep using the stock footage, which makes even less sense in-universe. Otherwise, though, reused ship names in Trek have not come with reused numbers.

 

[The Wormhole]

Re: LE: One Constant Star by David R. George III Review Thread (Spoile

^^Although, Behr wanted the second Defiant to have the registry NCC-74205-A but ultimately the stock footage issue prevented that.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

Re: LE: One Constant Star by David R. George III Review Thread (Spoile

One thing about this that I have noticed, as I have with other DRG books, is the occurance of 'DRG aliens' that no one else ever seems to reference - usually the Alonis, but also the Fruelians here and in Serpents. Does no one else ever use these aliens?

The Alonis were mentioned in KRAD's Articles of the Federation and A Singular Destiny, and Christopher's Over A Torrent Sea.

The Frunalians are canonical, though nothing was revealed about them other than their use of science vessels.

 

[Csalem]

Re: LE: One Constant Star by David R. George III Review Thread (Spoile

I also found it interesting that Sulu's first officer on the Excelsior was also the name of the captain of the Excelsior in one of the Stargazer novels - Crajjik.

 

[Paris]

Re: LE: One Constant Star by David R. George III Review Thread (Spoile

I also found it interesting that Sulu's first officer on the Excelsior was also the name of the captain of the Excelsior in one of the Stargazer novels - Crajjik.

I noticed that too. It seems that like Christopher, DRG3 seems to like to clear up minor continuity discrepancies when he sees an opportunity to do so without taking us out of the story. Just like he did in Raise the Dawn by referring to Geordi's rank shift from Indistinguishable from Magic. I love that stuff

 

[Mage]

Re: LE: One Constant Star by David R. George III Review Thread (Spoile

Very enjoyable read, with flaws. The flaws have been mentioned before, with the novel having a bit of a slow start, and the ending being quite abrupt. From the blurb, I had thought both Harriman and the Tzenkithi would be more involved, but the former only appears in about the last quarter of the novel, and the latter only two pages or so. No resolution of what happened to the inhabitants of the Portal Planet (forget the name). And the finding of the Excelsior crew was quite a stretch, I'll admit. But.....

DRGIII has surprised me twice now, with writing novels not set inside a specific series, which I prefer. Ongoing narritives set over several novels greatly appeal to me, since characters, plot, settings, enviroments can all be explored over a longer time. I had not expected to like Alliagences In Exiles, which I did. The biggest appeal for One Constant Star was that it was set in The Lost Era, but from the blurb I thought it was going to be rather generic.
But I really enjoyed this novel. DRGIII's best work? No. To me, that is still either Serpents of his Typhon Pact Duology. It was however, highly enjoyable, like a good episode of Star Trek would be to me. And for me, that's always a good thing.

 

[kirk55555]

Re: LE: One Constant Star by David R. George III Review Thread (Spoile

I voted above average for this. I enjoyed it fairly well. Its only the second book I've read that had Demora Sulu involved (the first being the excellent The Captain's daughter by Peter David). This wasn't as good as TCD, but I enjoyed it. I liked the stuff the Excelsior, although it did seem a little too convenient that Enterprise happened to be the next ship to experience the same portal that destroyed excelsior. Demora was an interesting character, I'd read more books about her time as Captain of the Enterprise-B if they were made.

Honestly, the only thing I thought was weird was the idea that an idiot like Harriman would even have a career at that point. A guy whose only on-screen appearance made him seem like a wimpy, incompetent captain was not someone I imagined even retaining his rank after killing Kirk. I always imagined him being demoted to Commander after the Kirk incident and spending the rest of his career as the commander of a small starbase safely in the middle of federation territory.

Then again they never do mention Kirk, just that this guy commanded the Enterprise for years while Demora was a crew member, so it doesn't have to be the same John Harriman. Its a big universe, its not hard to believe that there was another human captain named John Harriman. That is just a goofy theory I came up with, though, not a serious thought. I just have trouble believing that Harriman became competent and commanded the Enterprise for any significant length of time.

 

[Jarvisimo]

Re: LE: One Constant Star by David R. George III Review Thread (Spoile

One thing about this that I have noticed, as I have with other DRG books, is the occurance of 'DRG aliens' [...]

The Alonis were mentioned in KRAD's Articles of the Federation and A Singular Destiny, and Christopher's Over A Torrent Sea.

The Frunalians are canonical, though nothing was revealed about them other than their use of science vessels.

Ah, cool, somehow missed them - although i haven't read any of those books since i read DRG in detail.

 

[Mage]

Re: LE: One Constant Star by David R. George III Review Thread (Spoile

Honestly, the only thing I thought was weird was the idea that an idiot like Harriman would even have a career at that point. A guy whose only on-screen appearance made him seem like a wimpy, incompetent captain was not someone I imagined even retaining his rank after killing Kirk. I always imagined him being demoted to Commander after the Kirk incident and spending the rest of his career as the commander of a small starbase safely in the middle of federation territory. .

Since you mentioned that the only other novel with Demora you read was TCD, I asume you haven't read Serpents Amongst the Ruins, the other novel featuring Demora AND the Enterprise-B, captained by Harriman. Considered by a lot of TrekLit fans as DRGIII's best work, and one of the best Treklit novels, it not shows us a bit of why Harriman acted the way he did in Generations, but also how, in the following years, he became one of the finest captains in the fleet.

Generations is set in 2293, Serpents was set in 2311. This novel is set in 2319. Is it so hard to accept that, just like real people, someone like Harriman could have changed a lot in this 26 years?

 

[Paris]

Re: LE: One Constant Star by David R. George III Review Thread (Spoile

I voted above average for this. I enjoyed it fairly well. Its only the second book I've read that had Demora Sulu involved (the first being the excellent The Captain's daughter by Peter David). This wasn't as good as TCD, but I enjoyed it. I liked the stuff the Excelsior, although it did seem a little too convenient that Enterprise happened to be the next ship to experience the same portal that destroyed excelsior. Demora was an interesting character, I'd read more books about her time as Captain of the Enterprise-B if they were made.

Honestly, the only thing I thought was weird was the idea that an idiot like Harriman would even have a career at that point. A guy whose only on-screen appearance made him seem like a wimpy, incompetent captain was not someone I imagined even retaining his rank after killing Kirk. I always imagined him being demoted to Commander after the Kirk incident and spending the rest of his career as the commander of a small starbase safely in the middle of federation territory.

Then again they never do mention Kirk, just that this guy commanded the Enterprise for years while Demora was a crew member, so it doesn't have to be the same John Harriman. Its a big universe, its not hard to believe that there was another human captain named John Harriman. That is just a goofy theory I came up with, though, not a serious thought. I just have trouble believing that Harriman became competent and commanded the Enterprise for any significant length of time.

Harriman was redeemed in DRG3's other Lost Era novel (also staring Demora) Serpents Among the Ruins. You should really check it out. One of the best books of all the Treklit i've ever read, and as far as i'm concerned, DRG3's best trek book to date. the majority of it takes place about 8 years before this story, in 2311.

 

[Christopher]

Re: LE: One Constant Star by David R. George III Review Thread (Spoile

I've never seen GEN's Harriman as incompetent. He made good suggestions that would probably have worked if he hadn't been saddled with an unfinished ship. And once he reached the limits of his experience, he did the wisest thing he could possibly have done: He set his ego aside and deferred to a more experienced commander. If he'd been incompetent, he would've refused to let Kirk help rather than surrender his pride. Taking advantage of the resource of Kirk's experience was, in fact, a supremely competent choice.

 

[kirk55555]

Re: LE: One Constant Star by David R. George III Review Thread (Spoile

Honestly, the only thing I thought was weird was the idea that an idiot like Harriman would even have a career at that point. A guy whose only on-screen appearance made him seem like a wimpy, incompetent captain was not someone I imagined even retaining his rank after killing Kirk. I always imagined him being demoted to Commander after the Kirk incident and spending the rest of his career as the commander of a small starbase safely in the middle of federation territory. .

Since you mentioned that the only other novel with Demora you read was TCD, I asume you haven't read Serpents Amongst the Ruins, the other novel featuring Demora AND the Enterprise-B, captained by Harriman. Considered by a lot of TrekLit fans as DRGIII's best work, and one of the best Treklit novels, it not shows us a bit of why Harriman acted the way he did in Generations, but also how, in the following years, he became one of the finest captains in the fleet.

Generations is set in 2293, Serpents was set in 2311. This novel is set in 2319. Is it so hard to accept that, just like real people, someone like Harriman could have changed a lot in this 26 years?

I couldn't believe he was given another chance. like I said, in my head I kind of figured he was demoted and reassigned after the events of Generations.

I had never heard of Serpents Among the Ruins before this. I've liked most of DRGIII's work that I've read (which is Plagues of Night, Raise the Dawn, Revelation and Dust, and this book), but I think I'll skip a book focused on the worst Captain of a ship called Enterprise (that we know of at least, and assuming you don't count Jellico as a real Captain of an Enterprise). Maybe if the library had it I'd check it out because of morbid curiosity, but they don't so I won't.

Because of these posts I just looked up info on Harriman on Memory-Beta. The guy was not only incompetent, he was borderline evil. Also, Starfleet Intelligence was apparently pulling off Section 31 style operations (aka evil and mostly nonsensical operations) in the era between Generations and TNG, something I didn't really need to know. Section 31 is all the cartoony, mustache twirling evil the Federation needs. They've never been that different from Starfleet Intelligence anyway, just slightly more willing to commit real attrocities instead of fake ones.

When they referenced Harriman working for SI in this book, I figured it was for things not quite so pointless and immoral. I thought he was an idiot, but I would have guessed he was atleast an idiot with morals. I never would have guessed that the books made him into a worse character than what we saw on screen, I pretty much figured he was already at rock bottom. Its probably a good thing I didn't read Serpent's Among Ruins. It sounds like it would be infuriating.

 

[Jarvisimo]

Re: LE: One Constant Star by David R. George III Review Thread (Spoile

^^ Memory Beta has really fed you a wrong impression of Serpents - it is a beautiful book, not about an immoral act, but rather about seeking a utopian end (no war) via actions which whilst criminal, were not intended to be immoral.

 

[Corran Horn]

Re: LE: One Constant Star by David R. George III Review Thread (Spoile

Great political intrigue, too, I thought. Good use of the Klingons as well.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

Re: LE: One Constant Star by David R. George III Review Thread (Spoile

Great political intrigue, too, I thought. Good use of the Klingons as well.

It was certainly interesting to see the Klingons playing the role of peace-brokers and the "voice of reason". Ambassador Kage's insistence that the Klingons will keep the peace in light of Romulan and Federation posturing is both hilarious and entirely believable given the context.

 

[kirk55555]

Re: LE: One Constant Star by David R. George III Review Thread (Spoile

it is a beautiful book, not about an immoral act, but rather about seeking a utopian end (no war) via actions which whilst criminal, were not intended to be immoral.

I don't believe that. It was an stupid, pointless act done by an immoral idiot. It accomplished nothing except murdering a few romulans. It seems like the author was trying to make Harriman seem more interesting by kind of ripping off what Sisko did during the dominion war to get Romulan support (the situations are obviously different, but I can see some attempt to copy the idea of an officer doing something evil to try to do good).

The problem with that (besides Sisko having legitimate reasons for his actions) is that Sisko actually had ideals to break, and he was effected by his actions. It was also not something he did lightly, or based off of an event that was just hypothetical. The Dominion was actively hostile, had already been in conflicts with the Federation, and in general the federation was in real trouble. Harriman tried to stop a hypothetical war by betraying the Federation, disrespecting dead officers and murdering some romulans. He's similar to (and no better than) Cartwright's group in STVI or Section 31. He created a horrible deception, murdered people, and for what? If the Romulans had attacked (a big if), the klingons would have helped them anyway. You don't do extreme, evil things on a hunch. Harriman, though, is apparently a immoral master planner who just does evil things at the drop of a hat.

So, yeah, its definitely not a story I want to read. If I want to see a well written example of an officer doing wrong to help the Federation, i'll just watch DS9. I'm glad I didn't know about this idiotic "Tomed Incident" before reading One Constant Star. It would have made harriman's sections of the book aggravating instead of mildly interesting (the stuff involving odessey) and pointless and bland but harmless (the stuff with Harriman and his wife).