Spoilers Marvel Cinematic Universe spoiler-heavy speculation thread

[Mr. Adventure]

I have a feeling Coulson and Co. are going to be going in the direction of the A-Team, Airwolf, Knight Rider and so on before them and end up operating from the bus as a rogue group on their own. It would have the bonus of making it easier for them to explain the smaller scale of the show. Although I'm not sure how they'll explain where they get the fuel if they go that route.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Lots of places to go with this thread. Somehow this event, which I thought would limit options, seems to open up endless possibilities.

The big question between TWS and AoS is whether or not the Zola program is the Clairvoyant. From the way they described the program as working, it would be kind of a redundant concept if it isn't! OTOH, the so-called Clairvoyant could still be an individual with high security clearance and/or access to information from the Zola program (the most likely suspect ATM being Hand).

I'm still seeing MODOK as a possibility, related to Zola's equation. They have an opportunity to expand on that concept without contradicting TWS at all.

OK, now for the zany idea. Does anyone think the machine that implanted the memory of Tahiti in Coulson's brain is the same technology used to wipe Bucky Barnes's memory and turn him into the Winter Soldier?

 

[DEWLine]

Not the same design.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Sure, but I was asking if it was the same technology. Obviously, the one for the Winter Soldier is more sophisticated and compact, but SHIELD and HYDRA are essentially the same entity, so the connection seems to be there.

 

[The Old Mixer]

I get the impression that Bucky underwent more traditional brainwashing methods. It seemed to me like they were electroshocking him.

Also, I think MODOK would be kind of redundant with Zola. The one thing I wouldn't expect them to dip into at this point is MODOK.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Is Electroshocking really all that effective, particularly in the way they were doing it to erase memories but still preserve your combat experience. Then again, the bit in the mouth, etc. seems similar to what actual electroshock therapy involved, but I'm not sure that's the only reason it might exist in a painful procedure. I'm just saying, given the connection, it's a possibility. Both involve memory tampering. I'm curious if it was intentional by the AoS writers.

 

[The Old Mixer]

Don't ask me, I don't brainwash people for a living...and neither do Hollywood blockbuster writers....

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Sure. I'd be curious to see how the script describes that scene. That would give a good idea of both what they intended and whether the AoS writers intended to mirror that idea. Given that they may not have had a rough cut back then, it's possible they didn't even know what that scene would look like (although I suspect they imagined their machine having a certain look either way).

 

[The Old Mixer]

A couple more interesting points in TWS:

Stephen Strange is referenced in the same breath as Bruce Banner as being on Hydra's target list...suggesting that he's already more than a surgeon in the MCU.

I remember some speculation in one thread or another a bit back as to whether or not Cap's identity was public knowledge in the MCU. TWS cleared that up.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Stephen Strange is referenced in the same breath as Bruce Banner as being on Hydra's target list...suggesting that he's already more than a surgeon in the MCU.

Feige was asked about this. His response is that the equation predicts future threats too.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

And there is a big contradiction coming up on Agents of SHIELD, but I am not sure I can mention it due to the thread rules (but there have been promos for it).

And it is something that has been openly discussed in the AoS thread. OK, it's just a casting spoiler. I'll break protocol.

The irreconcilable difference between Ang Lee's Hulk and the MCU is...

Spoiler: Character who appeared in Hulk and appearing soon on AoS

Glenn Talbot. A former military officer who was killed off in Lee's movie, will soon be appearing as an alive and well current military officer in AoS.

Spoiler: Reason why this is no real issue

From Die Hard:
FBI Agent Johnson: I'm Agent Johnson, this is Special Agent Johnson.
Dwayne T. Robinson: Oh, how you doin'?
FBI Agent Johnson: No relation.

 

[The Old Mixer]

If the algorithm could predict future threats of a magical nature...that's stretching things a bit, but....

(Also, they wouldn't have to bother if they were capable of knocking off the Ancient One....)

 

[Alidar Jarok]

And there is a big contradiction coming up on Agents of SHIELD, but I am not sure I can mention it due to the thread rules (but there have been promos for it).

And it is something that has been openly discussed in the AoS thread. OK, it's just a casting spoiler. I'll break protocol.

The irreconcilable difference between Ang Lee's Hulk and the MCU is...

Spoiler: Character who appeared in Hulk and appearing soon on AoS

Glenn Talbot. A former military officer who was killed off in Lee's movie, will soon be appearing as an alive and well current military officer in AoS.

Spoiler: Reason why this is no real issue

From Die Hard:
FBI Agent Johnson: I'm Agent Johnson, this is Special Agent Johnson.
Dwayne T. Robinson: Oh, how you doin'?
FBI Agent Johnson: No relation.

Either way, I don't think we should assume a movie done without any input from the current Marvel creative team is in the same universe as one that is unless it's clear they are (certainly, it's not worth bending over backwards to paper over inconsistencies). Although, I'm sure Daredevil will be quickly established as not consistent with Affleck's movie so this debate is one that will be limited solely to the Hulk.

If the algorithm could predict future threats of a magical nature...that's stretching things a bit, but....

Link


Another major reference made in Captain America: The Winter Soldier is Doctor Stephen Strange, who is mentioned by name as one of the targets of Project Insight. When asked if it implies that the Sorcerer Supreme is active somewhere in the Marvel Cinematic Universe, Feige teased: “Well, we know what it means and where we want to head with it, but we were comfortable with keeping it in there and leaving it in there because there are a few different ways to interpret it. The whole thing, what Sitwell’s saying is, this algorithm is going to predict if you’re going to become a problem for Hydra or not. So you don’t have to just be Tony Stark, actively plotting to save the world. You could be a kid whose SAT scores and whose essays have indicated that you’re going to be a problem one day. So is Stephen Strange the Sorcerer Supreme? Probably not at that point. Is he an unbelievably talented neurosurgeon who’s opinionated and kind of arrogant? Probably. That might put him on the list.”

My take on the quote is it means, "We didn't really want it to mean much besides be a cool little tease to lay the groundwork for that movie."

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

Either way, I don't think we should assume a movie done without any input from the current Marvel creative team is in the same universe as one that is unless it's clear they are (certainly, it's not worth bending over backwards to paper over inconsistencies). Although, I'm sure Daredevil will be quickly established as not consistent with Affleck's movie so this debate is one that will be limited solely to the Hulk.

We should not assume that, either. And yes I think its worth to consider because the film portrays a full image of the guy who, by Avengers, has come completely in peace with his anger. And what does Daredevil have to do with anything?

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Daredevil is going to be a Marvel production on Netflix, I don't think many will assume that it's supposed to be the same story as the Affleck version. However, people are arguing both Hulk versions are connected despite, like Daredevil, being by different creative groups.

There are too many differences in the origin to fit neatly and reconciling them is more trouble than it's worth. I just think, given this, there's no reason to think they're the same universe. The burden should be on showing that they're connected, not that they're not connected.

 

[Myko]

by Avengers, has come completely in peace with his anger.

I would be very hesitant to draw this conclusion from the Avengers. He loses it on the helicarrier, and while he's able to trigger a transformation voluntary for the final battle, he doesn't look exactly a 100% in control: He screams at Tony and is twitchy and has trouble standing still.

 

[intrinsical]

by Avengers, has come completely in peace with his anger.

I would be very hesitant to draw this conclusion from the Avengers. He loses it on the helicarrier, and while he's able to trigger a transformation voluntary for the final battle, he doesn't look exactly a 100% in control: He screams at Tony and is twitchy and has trouble standing still.

To be fair, Loki's staff was pushing Banner's buttons.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

Daredevil is going to be a Marvel production on Netflix, I don't think many will assume that it's supposed to be the same story as the Affleck version. However, people are arguing both Hulk versions are connected despite, like Daredevil, being by different creative groups.

Thats totally different, though, because Hulk was followed The Incredible Hulk, that unambiguously plays it both ways. Because Letterier did say the longer cut of TIH made more spiritual connections to the first Hulk movie, and the general notion behind the film had been to design it as a loose sequel for fans of Lee's version, but mostly a reboot for fans who didn't like the original at all. And I get that. And because I like Lee's Hulk, I accept that notion, and go ahead by accepting Hulk (2003) as part of the MCU. And believe me, its a lovely viewing experience, if you run them down in a week marathon.

There are too many differences in the origin to fit neatly and reconciling them is more trouble than it's worth. I just think, given this, there's no reason to think they're the same universe. The burden should be on showing that they're connected, not that they're not connected.

I seriously don't think the differences are either as enormous or as plentiful as you mention. Especially when you look at them in order.

 

[Eduardo]

Either way, I don't think we should assume a movie done without any input from the current Marvel creative team is in the same universe as one that is unless it's clear they are (certainly, it's not worth bending over backwards to paper over inconsistencies). Although, I'm sure Daredevil will be quickly established as not consistent with Affleck's movie so this debate is one that will be limited solely to the Hulk.

We should not assume that, either. And yes I think its worth to consider because the film portrays a full image of the guy who, by Avengers, has come completely in peace with his anger. And what does Daredevil have to do with anything?

This is getting farcical. I understand that you like the first HULK movie, but you can't force it to fit in the MCU when it is not intended to.

For example:

The credits sequence in TIH can be easily explained as a quick what-happened-inbetween-Hulk-and-TIH -- Bruce came back, started working on the serom, tried to experiment again, to remove it, but unfortunately didn't succeed resulting to Betty's accident and him going away again. Its not that radical a thinking, unless you want it to be.

Seriously, we just had a TV special that went over the entire components of the MCU, that even went to the trouble of mentioning every bluray short film, and HULK is not there.

 

[bbjeg]

I couldn't find a legit source placing Ang Lee's Hulk in the MCU but the Wiki Page dis-includes it.

Spoiler: AoS trailers have already revealed it.

Also someone pointed out in another thread (I think AoS) Glenn Talbot dies in Ang Lee's Hulk but will be featured in an upcoming AoS episode.