Captain America: The Winter Soldier Discussion Thread - SPOILERS

[Alidar Jarok]

Iron Man 3 takes place before Thor: The Dark World. We can tell using Agents of SHIELD. The events of Iron Man 3 and Extremis occur before the pilot of Agents of SHIELD. The events of Thor: The Dark World occur about a third of the way through the Agents of SHIELD season.

Given the events in The Incredible Hulk, is it even possible to call Tony Stark without SHIELD knowing exactly where you're calling from? They found an encrypted email to Samuel Sterns and traced it effectively. That's assuming Steve Rogers entirely trusts Stark at the moment. Here, I'm thinking two things. The first is out of universe, but it's the Civil War comic storyline, where Stark and Rogers were on opposite sides here. For an in-universe explanation, he didn't entirely trust Romanoff at first. Stark was clearly involved in Project Insight in helping them build the Helicarriers. That might be a stretch, but it is a possibility. However, the need to keep secrecy, combined with the fact that these events took place over a period of several days (where only the final assault suggested time to contact him), and a final possibility that he has no more suits (at least that they know of) suggests that it is realistic not to contact Iron Man in these circumstances.

 

[Reverend]

^Iron Man 3 didn't happen at the same time as TWS. In the very first episode Extremis is mentioned as being "new". Secondly it takes place around Christmas & New Years which TWS clearly does not AND during TWS, we see the hellicarriers targeting Tony Stark who at the time is is in Stark Tower in New York.

I suppose you could claim the framing narration scenes for IM3 are around the same time, but that's circumstantial at best. For one, you'd have thought they'd also target Banner who's in the same building AND was specifically stayed to be on that same list.

[EDIT] Ninja'd!

 

[DEWLine]

TWS can serve as a motive for Tony to start building his own suits again...and a suit for Pepper into the bargain. Does anyone believe that the Zola Algorithm wouldn't have put Pepper on the target list as well as Tony?

 

[Corran Horn]

^Iron Man 3 didn't happen at the same time as TWS. In the very first episode Extremis is mentioned as being "new". Secondly it takes place around Christmas & New Years which TWS clearly does not AND during TWS, we see the hellicarriers targeting Tony Stark who at the time is is in Stark Tower in New York.
[EDIT] Ninja'd!

I forgot about Extremis! Yeah, that definitely places it far before TWS.

 

[DEWLine]

Guessing that since HYDRA got into the US Senate via Stern, and if they had any influence over Killian and AIM - say, via covert financing - they might have been able to funnel Extremis samples to the "Centipede Group".

The question is just how far do we take Agents of SHIELD's #itsallconnected claim.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Who was Fury calling telling to come to DC (the I'll be there in four hours, you've got three thing)? Was it Agent Hill?

 

[Corran Horn]

Who was Fury calling telling to come to DC (the I'll be there in four hours, you've got three thing)? Was it Agent Hill?

Yes

 

[Campe]

Saw it Friday. Loved it. Here's my review.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Who did Peggy marry?

 

[Reverend]

Guessing that since HYDRA got into the US Senate via Stern, and if they had any influence over Killian and AIM - say, via covert financing - they might have been able to funnel Extremis samples to the "Centipede Group".

The question is just how far do we take Agents of SHIELD's #itsallconnected claim.

Or Stark went to SHIELD to help fix Pepper's condition (or at least use their medical facilities.) In which case a sample shouldn't have been too hard to obtain.

 

[bbjeg]

Don't forget Tony had heart surgery at the end of IM:3. I'm sure his doctor ordered him to take it easy for the next few months, including no superhero work.

Maybe we should have a separate "MCU spoiler-heavy speculation" thread or somesuch...someplace where we can feel free to discuss the whole enchilada.

Has that thread been made yet? Don't forget to post a link to it in every active MCU thread. I'm tempted to make it myself.


Edit: Made it but in regards to posting it in every thread, they'll find it.

 

[The Old Mixer]

Go for it. It'd be nice to have a separate thread where we can cross-talk about what's been released without having to worry about spoiling one installment in the thread of the other. Just make sure SPOILER is big and bold in the title.

 

[Agent Richard07]

I'm just gonna go with excellent and leave it at that.

Tell us more.

He's obviously taken with Cobie Smulders.

And if she works at the tower in New York, she can use an alias and pursue a relationship with that Ted Mosby fellow.

I guess this is how Night Falcon fits into things.

 

[Corran Horn]

Who did Peggy marry?

I assume they're leaving that somewhat open in case the "Agent Carter" show goes to series. I think the only details she gives is it was one of the people rescue by Cap during the war years.

 

[PsychoPere]

Who did Peggy marry?

I assume they're leaving that somewhat open in case the "Agent Carter" show goes to series. I think the only details she gives is it was one of the people rescue by Cap during the war years.

Dum Dum Dugan!

 

[Sci]

Loved it. A great action movie, and a blistering critique of the modern surveillance state and of drone assassinations. Surprisingly political for a mainstream Marvel Studios movie!

Though, granted, Captain America has always been implicitly linked to left-wing politics, from the very start.

I had to laugh at Natasha starting to say her *Grandpa* had shown her Wargames. Of course it's possible, but it's not *that* old.

WarGames was released in 1983, 31 years ago. Assuming Natasha is the same age as Scarlet Johansson, then she would have been -1 when the film was released. So it is more than plausible to imagine that her grandfather might have been the person to introduce her to that movie some time in her middle childhood years -- say, circa 1991, 1992 or thereabouts.

However, Natasha's reference to working for the KGB is anachronistic; the KGB was dissolved in late 1991, when Natasha would have been about seven years old. Either the KGB (and possibly the Soviet Union itself?) still exists in the Marvel Cinematic Universe of 2014, or Natasha actually worked for the FSB, the KGB's post-Soviet successor. (Which, admittedly, the FSB is made up largely of the same people operating in the same buildings, doing lots of the same things -- they might as well be the same organization, name and government notwithstanding.)

ETA: I assume only DC residents would have an idea, but where exactly is the Triskelion? Is it basically next to Arlington cemetery?

ETA2: I think it is basically Roosevelt Island (looking at this image)? If so, that's a huge shame to destroy the island for that monstrosity. Really a crime.

Roosevelt Island seems about right. At first, I assumed it was somewhere in Virginia, maybe around Rosslyn or Arlington. But then I realized that it can't be Arlington -- the shots of the Lincoln Memorial and Reflecting Pool from the Triskelion's POV place them slightly southward. So between that and the fact that we don't actually see Roosevelt Island anywhere in the establishing shots, Roosevelt Island does seem to be the home of the Triskelion.

Next question:

This has been bugging me since The Avengers: Who, exactly, does SHIELD work for? They seem to be a U.S. organization, between being staffed by Americans and the use of the word "homeland" in their name. Yet we see them answering to this "World Security Council" in both The Avengers and The Winter Soldier. Alexander Pierce is addressed as "Mister Secretary" and seems to be in charge of them, too; is he the United States Secretary of Defense?

The only explanation I can come up with is that SHIELD is a U.S. agency whom the U.S. has agreed by treaty to run with either the U.N. Security Council (called the World Security Council in yet another case of can't-use-their-real-names-blues), or in concert with select allied foreign powers constitution their own, uniquely SHIELD-centric "World Security Council," of which the U.S. Defense Secretary is a member.

Sitwell was more than a sympathizer; he was an agent of HYDRA. The senator, played by Gary Shandling, was a sympathizer.

I'm not clear what the difference really is. Clearly Senator Stern was as much a HYDRA member as Sitwell and Secretary Pierce.

Who did Peggy marry?

We don't know. But what I do know is that it is an absolute shame that they used anyone as awesome and who has as much chemistry with Chris Evans as Hayley Atwell on only the first movie. She should have been kept in reserve to be Steve's ongoing female lead and love interest, not used in just one movie and given a cameo in the next.

 

[Bad Bishop]

I'm just gonna go with excellent and leave it at that.

Tell us more.

He's obviously taken with Cobie Smulders.

And if she works at the tower in New York, she can use an alias and pursue a relationship with that Ted Mosby fellow.

I guess this is how Night Falcon fits into things.

Exactly!

Maria Hill could have been using her "Robin Scherbatsky" alias for years. I'm thinking that Robin's annoying coworker Patrice was a HYDRA plant, or else one of Fury's trusted spies (like Agent 13), keeping an eye on Hill. This scenario helps explain why "Robin" was always so uneasy when Patrice was around.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Who did Peggy marry?

I assume they're leaving that somewhat open in case the "Agent Carter" show goes to series. I think the only details she gives is it was one of the people rescue by Cap during the war years.

There seemed to be a family photo in her bedroom, which I didn't get a good look at. I think Sharon was in it as a girl, though. I intend to pay particular attention the next time, to see if there was a man in it, and if so what he looked like.

 

[Enterprise1701]

If only Peggy Carter could have been kidnapped by HYDRA just like Bucky and both survive via cryostasis to the 2010s to become Captain America's comrades once more. But then again, only Bucky is the Avenger/honorary Avenger in the comics.

 

[Sci]

If only Peggy Carter could have been kidnapped by HYDRA just like Bucky and both survive via cryostasis to the 2010s to become Captain America's comrades once more. But then again, only Bucky is the Avenger/honorary Avenger in the comics.

Better plan:

Hire Hayley Atwell to play Sharon Carter, and let someone else play Peggy.