I didn't quote your whole posts, but I agree with them all. I read most of your comments, and I have to say I disagree with most of them. It's cool if you like the movie Insurrection, but I just can't see all the stuff you see in it. It's almost like you see what you want to see in that movie rather than what's there. I will say this. I tend to be a very forgiving person when it comes to movies as long as I get 2 things: 1. A reasonably fresh approach to material. Basically a story that flows organically. 2. I won't say a "happy ending" per se, but I do NOT, I repeat, I do NOT want to walk out of a movie feeling horribly depressed. I watch a movie because I want to be entertained, not saddened. I mean, hell, I enjoy watching TFF because to me it fits both those categories (#1 mostly to the caliber of acting on part of everyone in that film) Generations failed #2 miserably, but it wasn't too bad with #1 FC passed #2, and barely passed #1 Insurrection fails #1 and passes #2, and Nemesis fails both miserably. As far as insurrection, the whole premise of that movie, as presented to me in the story was highly insulting to my intelligence. I'm asked to believe that a race of self righteous hippie pieces of shit ("We are technologically advanced like you, but we gave it up because technology is eeeevil!! muah hah hah hah hah!!!!") Deserve to have their way of life protected, even though they just showed me on screen that they are a bunch of arrogant pricks and do NOT deserve that help!!!! To add insult to injury, it's implied that the only reason the good guys are making this sacrifice is because Picard wants to bang one of the hot MILF's in the hippie group. Where are the higher reasons for any of this to work as a story? The whole thing registered to me as "Arrogant dicks have a hot chick Picard is getting a woody for, and he wants to show off his chivalry in hopes of scoring" Tell me please how the movie was NOT about that, because the first time I saw it, I turned my mind off at the "Oh we're just as advanced as you, but unlike you we are better because we don't need fancy technology like your primitive minds do" At that point, I WANTED the So'na to carpet bomb that whole fucking place!
At the end of the day, the above is the single biggest problem with the film: the Ba'ku are incredibly unlikable and play Picard for a chump. I have no doubt they knew exactly who was sitting in their village the very first day and didn't say anything because Picard dropped the Prime Directive. They knew if they gave up who the S'ona were, Picard wouldn't, couldn't fight on their behalf. The Ba'ku are standing right there when Gallatin identifies himself as being part of "S'ona Command". This movie is the reason I no longer feel the same way about Picard as I did in the TV series. It isn't about which side he's on, it's about how big of a chump he is throughout the film. The way he is written, he seems oblivious to what's going on around him and being driven solely by a piece of ass. Star Trek: Nemesis is my favorite of the four TNG films. But I guess that's like picking the prettiest pig at the county fair.
Haven'tGotaLife (may I call you Haven't?) I appreciate your well thought-out points even though I disagree with many of them. In fact, I'm enjoying the discussion even more than I enjoyed the movie.
Having rewatched this about a week ago (first time in HD!), I couldn't help but notice every single painted corridor extension (or background, like at the wedding) in the movie. On TNG and the classic movies I found them quaint, but for a movie released in 2002? Also, the CG shuttlebay behind Picard and Data, (when they steal the Reman shuttle) looked incredibly flat and fake which is kind of odd since the later shot during the crash looked awesome (as did the rest of the movie, IMO) Yeoman Randi thought the Enterprise/Scimitar relative sizes kept changing, which I thought was funny since I didn't notice anything and I'm the "725 meters!" ship size nutjob. It did look a lot better than '98's Insurrection, whose CG had an all-round datedness about it, especially those awful solar sails (although the shots of ships flying into the Briar Patch were beautiful)
As far as the look of NEM goes, my only real problems were the lame forced perspective backgrounds as mentioned above, the REALLY lame, crappy, and totally unconvincing "mountains" at the wedding. And, worst of all, the UBER shitty, ultra cheap-looking Scimitar observation lounge set - essentially consisting of some steps and a couple of lights! It appears exactly as is - a low budget, hastily thrown together cost cutter.
I remember the first time I saw Nemesis, I didn't even notice there were supposed to be mountains in the background.
Granted the spacebattle visuals were a huge improvement over Insurrection, but they still looked like a video game. First Contact's opening spacebattle looks far better IMO.
Whatever you are smoking... I want some. NEM was an awful movie. It started with the script. I realize actors make demands, but when a script... never mind. I don't want to get into a rant. Aside from the canon and other messes called NEM, it just did not feel like they even tried to make a Next Generation movie. It could have been any other generic sci-fi B movie, IMHO. Anyway, thanks for the morning coffee spew! You now join the Elite group of dozens of Star Trek fans who actually liked NEMESIS.
I thought the sound design was great also. The hand phaser blasts in particular had real power to them. This film sounds amazing on my home theater. I always liked the movie and considering what a "shit" film is really like, Nemesis doesn't come close.
inspired by this thread I watched Nemesis for the first time in nearly a decade yesterday. whilst I still don't think it's a great film I have to admit that it's no where near as bad as I remember
Only the Enterprise-E, the Defiant, and the Borg cube/sphere were models. The other seven starship classes at the Sector 001 battle were CGI.
I've seen the movie a total of 3 times. Once at the theater, where I walked out groaning in disappointment. Second time I caught it on TV, and I don't think I finished watching it. 3rd time was because I wanted to review it here. I didn't find it as grating the 3rd time until about the time of Data's "heroics", which is where the movie fell apart for me again.
In this instance, absolutely. The FC battle is probably the best bit of FX in the entire movie, but the quality of the effects are nowhere near Nemesis's for me. The Enterprise seem incredibly detailed in NEM, and I love the shield hits, they look far more realistic that the 'bubble' effect. The argument that model shots are better doesn't hold water IMO - are you saying the effects in TWOK are better because they use models?
I think it gets slated far more than it deserves because of the box office performance, Data, and the manner in which it almost ended the franchise. The other problems the film has, Shinzon, the buggy scene etc could be levelled at any of the TNG movies - witness the 'you know what irks me about Insurrection' thread, I'll sit through repeated viewings of Nemesis over that pretentious snorefest any day.
Insurrection was like a bad injury that put the Trek movie series in hospital on a life support machine but don't worry its expected to make a full recovery with next 'even' film (like TOS films did with VI and TNG with FC) but Nemesis was like an unexpected killer infection caught in hospital that killed the Trek movies off (until 2009)
I don't disagree - that's sort of how I see it too, despite my enjoyment of the film, I think it's biggest problem was that the TNG franchise was past its sell by date, and by 2002 mega blockbusters with huge scope such as LOTR and the Matrix were in full flow, and they suddenly made Trek movies look way out of fashion. My main point is that I don't believe that ANY of the TNG movies were better than Nemesis, all of them were too low budget, low scope extended TV episodes, but they finally got found out with Nemesis and the game was up.