A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

Littlefinger seems to be the mastermind that both started this war going and is also guiding it to his own ends.

 

Well, to be fair the series itself builds Varys up to be this epic Spymaster but then later is subverts it when Kevan takes over. He realizes himself how easy it is to set up the Spy network Varys had, and one of Varys' tricks was always fooling everyone into thinking his job was a lot more impossible than it really was.

Same with LF, if you really analyze the series you see his great manipulations and victories are more due to him being INCREDIBLY lucky (and some pretty silly contrivances) rather than pure skill.

 

The plan is for 7, but 8 are still possible, according to what they have been telling to Vanity Fair.

I suspect that the prospect of the renewal of actors' contracts for one more season is the real reason why HBO wants just 7 seasons for such a successful show. The more successful it is, the more money its main stars could ask for.

However, though I think most or all of AFFC/ADWD will be wrapped up by the end of season 5, I'm not sure that they will be able to wrap everything up in two more seasons, so I expect things like longer seasons (Oz, The Sopranos etc. have already done the trick of virtually having two seasons but calling them one season) and longer season finales or at least series finale (IIRC, the Oz series finale was something like an hour and a half instead of the usual 60-something minutes).

Not to mention that most of his rapid rise to the position of the Master of Coin - in addition to becoming the Lord Protector of Vale - was due to Lysa and her obsessive love for him since their childhood. Without her, he may not have been able to get anywhere.

 

Actually, it's Cersei who thinks that Varys had tricked people into "believing he was irreplaceable," and that Qyburn is just as good. (Then a few pages later she's irritated that no one on her council remembers whether Balon Greyjoy had brothers, which Varys would have known.) Considering Cersei's general poor judgment, I'm not sure we're meant to agree with her there. Though certainly Varys cultivates a mystique, and since he's not actually working for the Iron Throne it's hard to gauge how good he would be at serving its interests.

Littlefinger has been lucky, certainly; part of the point of the series is that even the cleverest schemer needs luck to survive in a complex political environment. But he's also very good, with money and at manipulating people. Lysa's influence got him control of customs at Gulltown. It was the substantial increase in the income from that position that set him on the road to Master of Coin. And the game he plays to get Ned killed is pretty clever, though like any scheme in an invented narrative it only works because the author needs it to.

When I say that I feel Gillen is overacting, I'm not thinking about the character's public persona; in fact, I think the TV series doesn't do enough to make him seem genial and lightweight, so that Ned looks even stupider than he should for trusting the man. I'm thinking about how almost every line, including honest stuff like the big prostitute-training scene in season one or "Chaos is a ladder" last year, is delivered as an oration, rather than as spontaneous speech. YMMV.

On another topic: Martin has announced that his latest cross-genre anthology, Rogues, will include another excerpt from the excess material originally planned for the world book (the text of which is done, by the way, and on schedule for late 2014 publication). "The Rogue Prince, or, the King's Brother" is more Targaryen history, covering the years leading up to "The Princess and the Queen," which appeared in the earlier anthology Dangerous Women. Rogues is coming out on June 17th.

...If only he could produce main text as fast as he does chunks of backstory.

 

^ That's exactly how I judge his performance Brendan. Or like when you said earlier that he seems to feel the need to be OTT because he's in a costume drama. His performances in urban drama like The Wire or Love/Hate were much more natural and understated.

 

The producers have already stated many times that increasing the series' episode order per season is impossible.

 

I'm starting to wonder if the TV series will have an actual ending.

 

Ordering 2 seasons worth of episodes in one block (perhaps shortened to 16 hours total) might save them from having to renegotiate contracts for an extra season though, if that is indeed a major factor. They haven't shied away from recasting yet though, and it isn't like Emilia Clarke or Kit Harrington are setting the world on fire with their riveting performances.

 

Pretty sure actors' contracts are written with enough specificity that networks can't double or nearly double their commitment just by labeling production cycles differently. And recasting lead actors (some of whom are pretty popular, even if I can't see why) is a different proposition entirely from recasting bit (Tommen, Gregor Clegane) or supporting (Daario) players whose characters most viewers won't even remember without prompting. If they absolutely had to, I'm sure they'd try, but I don't see them risking it for the sake of extra episodes we have no reason to believe they actually want. They probably couldn't do the rest of the story as the books will/would tell it in two more seasons, but they're not going to have that story anyway. They're going to have the high points which they'll have to elaborate and link up themselves, and that is easily done in two years, just as Feast/Dance is boiling down to one.

 

However much some fans are disenchanted with Emilia Clarke, she's one of the most visible public faces of the show and one of two cast members to be nominated for an Emmy so far. She would be one of the most difficult to get away with recasting.

 

The only actor that I think can't be recast is Dinklage, and I'm curious to see if his contract renegotiations (he says his contract is up with the sixth season, and he has a new HBO series in development) determine the fate of the series.

 

Any of the major parts would be difficult to recast.

 

The standard Hollywood contract is six years with an option for a seventh with a certain range of increases available -- all of the original cast still needed for the seventh season will be able to renegotiate then. An eighth season would require full-scale renegotiations for all of them, and the season two castmembers still around getting their seventh-season options.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if they aimed to be done with adapting the books-so-far by the end of season 6, so that they can do whatever they want in season 7 without worrying about spoilering later books.

I'd expect *nobody* to be safe for the season 6 finale- they can kill off whoever they want with that plan.

 

The title of the fifth episode has been revealed: "First of His Name".

Also, HBO has a website up where artist Robert M. Ball is putting up a piece of art representing each death in the series to date. They're also taking submissions from other artists. You can see the website here.

 

They'll have to be done with the published material by the end of season 5 to cover the final two books' worth of stuff in two seasons.

 

The books so far will most likely be adapted by the end of season 5 with only bits and pieces missing from A Feast for Crows/A Dance with Dragons (and some parts of Winds of Winter will already be used in season 5!), there's not much content left, large chunks and some characters from Feast/Dance will be removed, they're pointless and add nothing to the story.

The producers know where the story is going, they don't have to make things up, Martin told them the story of every character in broad strokes, they will simply overtake the novels.

 

Not sure if anyone has linked to this interview with GRRM about the whole catching-up issue:

http://winteriscoming.net/2014/03/g...eep-the-show-from-catching-up-in-vanity-fair/

 

I don't think they've said it's impossible. Do you have a quote? It wasn't impossible for Oz, The Sopranos, BSG on the SciFi channel, I don't see why it would be impossible for GoT.

Why would you wonder that? Of course it will. The question is just if we'll get the chance to see the ending on TV first or read it in the books.

That's ridiculous. They can't and won't recast any of the major characters. They've only recast minor and supporting characters.

Dinklage's performance is overrated, BTW. A bunch of other actors have delivered as good or better performances (i.e. without his ridiculous accent).

Nope. They care about having a good ending, and they claim to care about adapting the series faithfully - and so far, they've mostly done it. Why would they be worried if the show spoils future books? That can only be good for the show's viewership.

GRRM has told them the ending and the character arcs for all major characters. They will work with that. I'm sure they will also have the access to GRRM's yet unpublished manuscripts, because he'd probably prefer a faithful adaptation to one that diverges from the books a lot.

 

Game of Thrones is a much bigger and more difficult production than any of those shows. This is from an interview Maureen Ryan conducted with the producers after the third season renewal:

The producers had spoken of a maximum aim of 80 episodes in eight seasons. If they wrap it up in seven seasons instead then you could perhaps see a slightly longer final season, if the air date is pushed back, or - perhaps more likely - a 10-episode final season with extra-long opening and closing episodes.

For a guy with TV experience, his plan for staying ahead of the TV show is very unrealistic.