A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

[Kelthaz]

I think good old George is in denial.

'A Dance with Dragons' is itself a book that's as big as 'A Storm of Swords.' So there's potentially three more seasons there, between 'Feast' and 'Dance,' if they split into two the way they did [with 'Storms'].

<snip>

Now, 'Feast' and 'Dance' take place simultaneously. So you can't do 'Feast' and then 'Dance' the way I did. You can combine them and do it chronologically. And it's my hope that they'll do it that way and then, long before they catch up with me, I'll have published 'The Winds of Winter,' which'll give me another couple years.

http://io9.com/which-jurassic-park-character-will-definitely-be-in-jur-1546793860/all

He seems to think that since 'Storm of Swords' will take 2 seasons to cover, then the same will hold true for 'Feast' and 'Dance'. That means he believes the TV show will run for 10-15 years giving him plenty of time to finish the next two books.

 

[Skywalker]

A Storm of Swords took two seasons because it actually needed them. Feast and Dance might have had similar page counts, but I honestly don't think either book was truly as deep as Storm was.

 

[137th Gebirg]

^^^ I agree. There was a lot of filler there.

 

[Captaindemotion]

As part of the Belfast Film Festival, the first episode of S4 is being shown in a local cinema next Thursday 27th March, two weeks ahead of anywhere else. I was lucky enough to win tickets. Looking forward to seeing it, especially on a big screen.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Charlie Jane Anders at io9 has an article up today about Martin's recent interviews about the television series catching up to the books, how he thinks the series can run ten or more seasons (giving him time to write the final two books), and how it could end in a two hour movie.

In a polite way, she calls him delusional without using that exact word,

 

[DevilEyes]

A Storm of Swords took two seasons because it actually needed them. Feast and Dance might have had similar page counts, but I honestly don't think either book was truly as deep as Storm was.

The main reason why Storm took two seasons is because D & D wanted to have the Red Wedding as the big episode 9 event.

The reason why Feast and Dance can't really make for two seasons is because of their structure: you have lots of characters and locations, but none of them have a story for two seasons - and the show can't split the seasons by location, as GRRM did with the books. Jon, for instance, has a great one-season storyline, but splitting it in two just wouldn't work, there is no logical narrative break. Same with Tyrion, or Cersei (in her case though, you may end the season with Walk of Shame - her conversation with Kevan could be moved to season 6). Some other characters have even less than one season material (Sansa, Arya, Bran), probably because GRRM is trying to stretch their story until they grow up a bit more.

Furthermore, some of the characters' stories are already being moved to season 4. So, Feast and Dance are, in a way, being split into two seasons, but these seem to be season 4 and season 5. Theon's ADWD story will apparently be spread over season 4 and season 5. Same with Dany - season 4 seems to be a combination of the ending of her ASOS plot and a part of her ADWD plot. Bran's story will probably be expanded, and we know he'll meet BR this season, so this means that they'll have to somehow expand his season 5, too. Brienne's story is also at least partly being moved to season. How deep any of them go into their ADWD/AFFC material this season is to be seen. I'm only sure that we will see Theon at Dreadfort and helping Ramsey take Moat Cailin this season, but that the fArya plot is going to happen in season 5.

 

[Captaindemotion]

^There was a line in the trailer about Arya Stark not having been seen since her father's death (or something like that). It sound like the Jeyne Pool/faux Arya plot might be reached in this season.

 

[Brendan Moody]

^I'm sure they'll be discussing the Ramsay/"Arya" betrothal this year (it comes up at the end of A Storm of Swords, after all), but the actual wedding at Winterfell and subsequent events seems destined for season five. With Michael McElhatton saying he's not in this season much, they probably aren't pushing beyond the third Reek chapter, if even that far.

What's weird to me about Martin's comments is not so much the denial (he's good at denial, as an array of blown self-imposed deadlines suggests) as the fact that the show's writers haven't snapped him out of it yet. Surely they've told him by now, when they're probably about halfway through writing season five, what their actual gameplan is? They usually meet with him this time of year or earlier to outline what they're doing with the season.

 

[Out Of My Vulcan Mind]

Martin's close enough to the production to know that what he's saying is bullshit. It looks like he's just not ready to publicly acknowledge that the show is going to pass him.

 

[Out Of My Vulcan Mind]

The title for the sixth episode has been revealed: "The Laws of Gods and Men".

Also, James Hibberd at EW reports that Benioff and Weiss have signed on for two more seasons.

And here's a new interview with GRRM. The last two questions and answers:

How far along are you in writing the next book, The Winds of Winter?
Ideally, I should have finished it two years ago, but I haven’t. One page at a time. I’ve given up making predictions about these things. I’ll be done when it’s done.

But David and Dan know what’s coming, in case they catch up to you, right?
They do, they do. They know what’s coming. They’ve even seen part of it, certain chapters that are finished.

 

[DarthPipes]

^I'm sure they'll be discussing the Ramsay/"Arya" betrothal this year (it comes up at the end of A Storm of Swords, after all), but the actual wedding at Winterfell and subsequent events seems destined for season five. With Michael McElhatton saying he's not in this season much, they probably aren't pushing beyond the third Reek chapter, if even that far.

What's weird to me about Martin's comments is not so much the denial (he's good at denial, as an array of blown self-imposed deadlines suggests) as the fact that the show's writers haven't snapped him out of it yet. Surely they've told him by now, when they're probably about halfway through writing season five, what their actual gameplan is? They usually meet with him this time of year or earlier to outline what they're doing with the season.

On another board someone suggested GRRM pretty much knows the show is going to pass him and seems to be deflecting the blame a little. It's impossible for him not to realize that and not to realize that HBO is not going to wait up for him. He worked in television for over a decade before he wrote the first GOT book. He knows the game.

HBO is not going to wait for him to finish up because he's proven incapable of moving his ass and spends too much time world-building. There's too much money and there's only so long they can hold the actors to their contracts, especially the younger ones who are all starting to (or have) reached 18. Ideally, GRRM needs a more aggressive editor that's not going to coddle him but that's not going to happen.

 

[MNM]

Thought that was kinda the idea? It IS pointless, wasteful, and thousands (or more) have died for that nonsense. .

Pointless in the sense that the characters have no real control is one thing.

Pointless in that the reader thinks "why the hell did I bother with mutiple books on this when it didnt actually matter?" is a different thing.

 

[Scout101]

Then why'd you bother to read the last couple in Mereen? No way in hell that plays into the final ending at all?

Or, it matters about as much as the entire crown game does: gets the characters the experience and into the place they need to be at the end.

Seems like it works to me, as the entire series started with the white walkers, they've been looming the whole series, and we've gotten repeated warnings to stop dicking around in the south and focus on the real threat. What kind of retarded series would it be if it DIDN'T end with them figuring out that the stuff down south didn't matter, needed to be resolved so they could focus on the real threat up north? Everything has built to that.

Having the political backstabbing end up being more important, and having the walkers just turn around and lose interest would be the real pointless letdown. After the buildup, that HAS to be the final conflict, no? Not who maneuvered who into marrying whom...

 

[Rowan Sjet]

What kind of retarded series would it be if it DIDN'T end with them figuring out that the stuff down south didn't matter, needed to be resolved so they could focus on the real threat up north? Everything has built to that.

The kind where only some of the people realise they need to work together, and the others who still only care about the throne get destroyed in their hubris?

 

[Brendan Moody]

To coincide with the season four launch, Martin has posted a new preview chapter from The Winds of Winter on his website. (The date at the top is wrong; it's from the last time he changed the preview chapter.) The viewpoint character is Mercy, but that's not a new POV; click through to discover the (possibly underwhelming) answer.

 

[Out Of My Vulcan Mind]

Heads up for Sky Atlantic viewers (from The Guardian):

Game of Thrones will receive a simultaneous broadcast in the US and the UK, it was announced at the London premiere on Tuesday.

In the US, HBO will show season four of the fantasy epic on Sundays at 9pm ET, which Sky Atlantic will broadcast in the UK at the same time, at 2am Monday GMT. The UK channel will then repeat the episode on its usual 9pm slot on Monday evenings.

 

[Captaindemotion]

^Wow, that's impressive, though I'm afraid I won't be able to sit up to watch it!

 

[Scout101]

What kind of retarded series would it be if it DIDN'T end with them figuring out that the stuff down south didn't matter, needed to be resolved so they could focus on the real threat up north? Everything has built to that.

The kind where only some of the people realise they need to work together, and the others who still only care about the throne get destroyed in their hubris?

Which is one way of resolving the story down south to deal with the more important thing, like I said. Someone can win, they can call a truce to deal with it together, the smarter people can leave the south to go up to deal with things, leaving the idiots to die fighting for the throne, etc.

Really only difference is the aftermath, whether they go back to fighting after or if enough people die during the struggle that only one is left with a strong enough claim to take the throne...for now...

 

[Brolan]

The throne still matters because someone has to be in charge if they defeat the white walkers. And likely it will be the one who least committed their forces to the North to be chewed up by the walkers.

 

[Klaus]

Well if that's true, here's a question for all: who would you want to see on the Iron Throne when the dust settles? Not who do you think will be there, but who would you want it to be?

Tirion would be my first choice, both because he'd be good at it and it'd be fun to watch. After that, I'm not sure. Probably Arya.