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ST-TMP: your first time...

I'm not precisely sure how the discussion came to be taken over by TVH and TFF, but: Gillian could be looking after the whales AND going into space with them in a spaceship. Perhaps the probe told George and Gracie, "Get your aquatic butts into space, so we can meet up properly," and/or they liked being in space and wanted to go again.

The only other thing I can think to say about seeing TMP first-run is that in at least one scene the color values were off - it was a Kirk-Spock-McCoy discussion, and their uniforms were suddenly rather gray. And as the DE showed and addressed, there were other elements not quite ready.

I've wondered ever since: What would have happened if the premiere had been delayed, as was done for such films as Titanic and the first AbramsTrek, to ensure that the final print had no technical or effects-related problems? Had such a long-awaited, much promoted in advance, big-budget movie ever been delayed before TMP? If not, what was the first? Was postponement ever considered as 7 December 1979 approached? Is there any consensus history on this, or even reliable individual points of view?
 
Reason for the uniforms changing color was due to portions of that scene being shot in front of a blue screen; if the uniform color had been retained odds are it would have been keyed out along with the blue screen.
 
I've wondered ever since: What would have happened if the premiere had been delayed, as was done for such films as Titanic and the first AbramsTrek, to ensure that the final print had no technical or effects-related problems? Had such a long-awaited, much promoted in advance, big-budget movie ever been delayed before TMP? If not, what was the first? Was postponement ever considered as 7 December 1979 approached? Is there any consensus history on this, or even reliable individual points of view?

The film had been pre-sold into theaters that blind-bid the film, so Paramount would have been class-actioned by all of them and that would have been something like 25 mil to give back (don't know if that would be with interest added) and still not have anything coming in. They threw as much money and resources as they could to get it in on time because no matter how much they spent, it still wouldn't be the huge black eye of a so SO expensive delay.

Lots of films have been bumped back ... APOCALYPSE NOW came out, what 2 years after it was supposed to? HEAVEN'S GATE - well, let's not go there, just buy the book about the movie instead, FINAL CUT.

There's a story, not substantiated, that Trumbull had in his contract something that said he guaranteed acceptable/marginal effects if it had to release on time, but that he guaranteed much better work if they delayed to spring or summer. I don't happen to think it is true, but certainly the fact that CLOSE ENCOUNTERS got pushed back 6 months (at one point it was supposed to be out ahead of STAR WARS!) helped the film's look enormously, as Trumbull & co were only coming up with the revised mothership and shooting it during that extended time.

I'm of the opinion that if they'd held back TFF 6 months it would have benefited, as it got annihilated in summer of 89. I could understand not wanting to spend more money on fx (even though they needed to ... badly!), but even holding it back w/o fixing it might have helped. Until the Abrams, there were no TREK movies released in summer after TFF, presumably because Paramount knew they couldn't compete. And it wasn't just TREK. The Bond movie that summer did terrible in the US, and that was the LAST Bond movie to release in summer -- they've all been winter since then, all the Brosnans and the Acid-face-guys pics.
 
I've wondered ever since: What would have happened if the premiere had been delayed, as was done for such films as Titanic and the first AbramsTrek, to ensure that the final print had no technical or effects-related problems?
Candidly I'm not sure it would have made much difference in terms of how the film was received overall.

TMP suffered from issues of pacing and editing. Yes, the DE fixes some of that, but I don't know if it would have been enough of a difference (assuming the finished f/x and final editing would have resulted in something similar to what we got with the DE). If some of the protracted visual sequences were actually cut in about half then that might have been viewed more favourably, but other issues still remained.

TMP's other issue of lacking in character drama and other small script issues would still have been there. I like the film and yet I can't ignore some things are missing. These issues could only have been fixed much earlier in the writing before they went to camera.
 
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Harvey previously shared some docs about the films and their budgets which give some interesting information.

One—apparently a planning doc for TUC—gives the total costs for films 3–5 and rough breakdowns of same. I put this data into a spreadsheet to kick out the following:

12945771473_39bc86f261_o.png

Where +/- is what % difference from the the preceding film.

Math doesn't add up to the penny, but close enough.


TOTAL BUDGET
If that's accurate, even after budget cuts, ST5 cost 43% more than ST4, which is a bigger increase of that from ST2 to ST3 or ST3 to ST4, but given how successful ST4 was maybe Paramount saw this as a surer bet.

CAST
As a ratio of Cast costs you can see the The percentage of the total budget spend on the Cast goes up with each film.

SETS
ST5's set costs are whopping compered to its two immediate predecessors, no doubt caused by the new bridge set plus the Paradise City set.


Except for the Cast and VFX (for ST3), the percentage of each film's total budget spent in other area is relatively consistent between films.
 
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TUC's final budget was absolutely 30 mil, not 27, which was the point of departure for the budget, the number at which it got greenlit. That's all direct from Steven-Charles Jaffe, speaking the same month the film went into theatrical release.

I thought TMP's figure was pretty solidly 44, that 35 was just for the production w/o other charges.

Also, the gross figure for TMP worldwide that was bandied about endlessly in 80-81 was 175 mil. I have no idea how to reconcile that with this 139 number everybody has now.

Mike Minor claimed TWOK came in at 13 mil because of all the insane overtime to get sets ready to shoot each day, since Par didn't allot enough stage space. Unsubstantiated, i guess ...

I've seen claims that TFF ran to 33 mil. The number for INS seems high, as the reshoots ran the budget up to 68, not 70.





Here's a little something I quickly worked up comparing each film's budget and world box office take and then adjusting both for inflation.



In this light TMP made a shitload of money and ranks in the top three for the most financial successful of the Trek films. The difference among the top three films is negiigable. All the other films rank significantly lower.

In terms of return on budget TWOK is the runaway winner earning back eight times its budget. Of course, its budget (as well as TSFS) was significantly less than TMP's because of the re-use of established sets and other resources.

Ranked in terms of world box office:
STID
TMP
ST09
TVH
TWOK
FC
TSFS
GEN
TUC
TFF
INS
NEM

Ranked in terms of return on budget:
TWOK
TVH
TSFS
TMP
TUC
FC
GEN
ST09
STID
TFF
INS
NEM

if TMP did 175m that's be 563m today!:eek: (or maybe even more near to 600)
 
TMP's other issue of lacking in character drama and other small script issues would still have been there. I like the film and yet I can't ignore some things are missing. These issues could only have been fixed much earlier in the writing before they went to camera.

I sometimes wonder if the script carries over some baggage from its genesis as a pilot episode of Phase II.

As "In Thy Image", the story was free to be ponderous, and to leave anything beyond painting the broadest strokes for the character interactions to the episodes that were to come after.

As "The Motion Picture" however, the writing staff were scrambling to knock the script into shape to be a self-sustaining, internally consistent story; one that is *not* reliant upon follow-up episodes that may never come. Hence why Decker-unit's merging with V'Ger was something of an eleventh hour rewrite. They needed to find some way to get these two off the ship now that they knew they wouldn't be needing them for the series any more.

I suspect a lot of the script they started shooting was still teeming with remnants of its television origins, hence why the actors were famously getting new copies of the script every few hours. The writers were rewriting it even as they were shooting it, which leads to some inevitable (and unavoidable) inconsistencies here and there in the finished product.
 
^Very true. TMP completely fails to fill i any details of Illia's backstory, for example, and is obviously meant as set up to learn more during the series. Most that we 'know' about Deltans comes from the tie-in novels. Even the "oath of celebacy" could be interpreted very very differently going strictly by canon.
 
^Very true. TMP completely fails to fill i any details of Illia's backstory, for example, and is obviously meant as set up to learn more during the series. Most that we 'know' about Deltans comes from the tie-in novels. Even the "oath of celebacy" could be interpreted very very differently going strictly by canon.

Oh, yeah. The "oath of celibacy" line stands out like a sore thumb, especially since it's never explained or mentioned again in the actual film . . . and ends up being totally irrelevant. It feels like a stray bit of exposition from the series bible that somehow survived into the feature film script.

That the Deltans are too super-sexual for ordinary humanoids is something we "know" from interviews and publicity materials, not from anything in the actual flick.

It's funny. The Trek movies actually make more of an effort to remind us how Vulcans work, even after all these years, than TMP does to explain what a Deltan is.
 
Harvey previously shared some docs about the films and their budgets which give some interesting information.

One—apparently a planning doc for TUC—gives the total costs for films 3–5 and rough breakdowns of same. I put this data into a spreadsheet to kick out the following:

12945771473_39bc86f261_o.png

Where +/- is what % difference from the the preceding film.

Math doesn't add up to the penny, but close enough.


TOTAL BUDGET
If that's accurate, even after budget cuts, ST5 cost 43% more than ST4, which is a bigger increase of that from ST2 to ST3 or ST3 to ST4, but given how successful ST4 was maybe Paramount saw this as a surer bet.

CAST
As a ratio of Cast costs you can see the The percentage of the total budget spend on the Cast goes up with each film.

SETS
ST5's set costs are whopping compered to its two immediate predecessors, no doubt caused by the new bridge set plus the Paradise City set.


Except for the Cast and VFX (for ST3), the percentage of each film's total budget spent in other area is relatively consistent between films.

That is one awesome document. The VFX costs on TFF are staggering, given the results.
 
I've been holding off on posting this wall of text, but bare with me. This is essentially a run down of everything I would change in the TMP edit to make it move faster.


Original Runtime: 02:11:52 (Including opening and ending credits)
New Runtime: 01:37:03 (not including opening and ending credits.)

Any scenes that are skipped over were either completely unedited from their original form, or had such minimal editing that they do not need to be referenced. :)


Remove the opening overture.

Cut down the opening sequence.
Particularly the overly long reveal of Epsilon IX. Location isn't worthy of this much focus. Tighten up some of the editing in the Klingon battle.

Remove Spock/Vulcan scene entirely.
There is nothing in here that contributes to the story at all. Literally everything the scene tells us is also dealt with later when Spock arrives on Enterprise. Now Spock's sudden appearance helps elevate the excitement of the events taking place.

Remove San Francisco/Starfleet Command entirely.
Go right to an establishing shot of Earth/Orbital Office. This is an extraneous scene that introduces a character solely to kill him off later.

Trim Office Complex sequence.
Again, we don't need fifty overly long shots of the model, no matter how awesome it looks. Rework the office scene to be just as heroic an introduction for Kirk as the SFC scene. Now he literally beams into the movie. :techman:

Reduce the size of the approach/fly around Enterprise.
Using the dialogue between Kirk and Scotty to resequence the events. Keeping the sense of awe, without dragging it on several minutes longer than is needed. The scene should be about establishing Kirk's lack of recent star time, and reintroducing the audience and Kirk to The Enterprise. Less is more.

Remove the transporter accident.
Kirk's lack of recent experience is discussed on the travel pod, with Decker in engineering, and culminates in the wormhole/discussion in Kirk's quarters. This scene is just an excuse to horribly murder a character who did not need to be in the film to begin with.

Remove the aftermath of the transporter accident.
It can be inferred that Decker's reduction to XO puts him in the science officer role and whoever would have done that job originally is down in one of the science labs.

Remove the silly Ilia nonsense.
Just trimming the dialogue so that the emphasis is on establishing:

A. Decker and her had a relationship.
B. There's a building tension between Kirk and Decker.

Take out Uhura's "Deltan" emphasis. Sulu/Chekov's doofy reaction shots, and the line about Ilia's oath of celebacy. Scene moves a little faster, and has much less awkward in it.

Remove the entire recreation deck briefing scene.
(I know! I KNOW! Just stay with me here. :lol:)

Chop out the goofy "I ALMOST MISSED THE DOOR" scene from leaving dry dock.
Loses the beautiful shot of the Enterprise with the sun rising behind it unfortunately, but the scene flows just fine without it. We get plenty of beauty shots of the E in the film. We can afford to lose some of these.

Insert a newly created scene between leaving dry dock and the wormhole sequence.
The Enterprise receives a signal from Epsilon IX. Sequence ends with stunned reaction shots of the crew as Epsilon IX is digitized. Transitions into Captain Kirk's log. Now with a bit more sense of immediate danger playing on things.

This scene is composed of editing the briefing footage into the bridge view screen (using several angles from other scenes in the film to give it less of a static feeling) and reaction shots cut from other sections of the film.

Wormhole sequence is left mostly unchanged.
Reducing some of Chekov's hammy slow motion performance, and taking out a shot of Ilia awkwardly bouncing in her seat. Shortens the scene and makes it play faster. I also think some music from one of Goldsmith's other scores would be good for this sequence. TOS almost never did a sequence like this without some bombastic music going with it.

Recut the scene between Kirk/Decker/Bones with Spock's Shuttle approaching.
When Decker leaves, transition to show the shuttle mysteriously approaching. Come back for the second half of the discussion, now have a much shorter section of the shuttle docking.

Scenes play much faster and with more energy this way. (And a heightened sense of mystery is added to the second half of the Bones/Kirk discussion.). Also, this edit excises Decker/Ilia melodramatic romance. We still get their history together from the rest of the film.

Remove the "sit down" nonsense in the lounge scene.
Kirk ushers the two men to sit down after the opening dialogue, and then after Kirk points out to Spock that he broke the Kolinahr by reupping with the crew. Spock then sits down, taking the point. No need to have Kirk repeat himself 50 times and unnecessarily drag out the scene.

Remove the "I can stop his pain" nonsense.
It never goes anywhere in the story. This really feels like a vestigial holdover from when the script was intended as the pilot for P2. Establishing character traits/abilities that never pay off.

Reduce cloud penetration sequence.
Make it about the characters reacting and not the visual effects. The line from Spock about the patterns being unrecognizable is good. There's a couple of decent reaction shots of the crew, but a lot of the FX just serves to drag the movie to a halt and it does not need to be this long to convey the size of V'ger's protective cloud.

Reduce V'ger Flyover.
Using the dialogue between the character's to rebridge the sequence you can cut this one virtually by 75%. Mostly by trimming shots. Some can literally be cut by half their length and you lose absolutely nothing.

Trim bits of the Probe sequence.
Remove Kirk reiterating what Decker already said about not interfering. Remove Spock smashing the controls. Instead make it look like Spock ATTEMPTS to interfere with the probe and get's blasted for it. Remove one of the more awkward Decker shots right before Ilia is digitized. (His acting looks very contrived in one shot.)

Remove the "jetpack tutorial."
Start the scene with Spock recording his first message to Kirk. Spock Walk scene is perfectly fine as is.

Spock laying on the operating table in sickbay
Cull the pullback before Chapel comes into frame and sticks that thing into his ear. It's just gibberish dialogue. Cut from Spock on the table to Kirk and Bones looking at the monitor. Then Spock chuckles. Trim out the excessive "SPOCK! JIM! BONES! SPOCK!" Nonsense. Kirk grabs Spock's shoulders and Spock comes back around. Again, staying on point here. Recut the rest of the sequence to remove Kirk's one-way conversation with Bones. Kirk says he needs Spock ready to go back to duty and then talks with Chekov. We already had exposition about V'ger, we don't need Kirk to repeat it to us again.

Micro edits and trimming to the sequences that follow.
Mostly carving out the dead air that seems to exist. Kirk's "V'GER...V'GER!" to Ilia. Making the Ilia probe more insistent about Kirk revealing the information. Also, cut down the time it takes the Enterprise to fly through the flower-hole-orifice-of-metaphors.

The majority of the final sequence at Voyager can be left unchanged.
It all works pretty swimmingly. All the major arcs come to a close nicely. Mostly just trimming a shot here or there to keep things moving at pace.


It probably reads like a butchery to some folks, especially big TMP fans, but this isn't really conceptual. I've made these edits, and although they're very rough and need some finesse, they can work. They help to make TMP much closer to the feeling of The Original Series, and get rid of a lot of the dead weight in the film.
 
I stopped reading at the suggestion to remove the Spock/Vulcan scene.

V'Ger being in contact with Spock telepathically is essential to the story, and the story is best served by establishing that essential element early.

Plus, we get a chance to see Spock display the emotion of regret when he picks up his award that had been so callously discarded. Also, if not moreover, callously dropping the award demonstrates with irony that living without emotion is a lie.

The Spock/Vulcan scene is really quite essential, as it is is filled with emotion, so I pass on your suggestions.
 
I stopped reading at the suggestion to remove the Spock/Vulcan scene.

So you stopped reading almost immediately, and discarded everything else because of one point? Unfortunate. I can understand disagreeing with points. I even expect that, but not bothering to at least look over the post as a whole, and considering it, before responding seems rather... Bitter? :confused:

V'Ger being in contact with Spock telepathically

You don't lose that by cutting the Vulcan scene. Spock makes it a point to tell Kirk and McCoy, and infer it repeatedly throughout the rest of the story. Spock's connection is the reason he shows up in the first place, as he says in the lounge scene.

Plus, we get a chance to see Spock display the emotion of regret when he picks up his award that had been so callously discarded. Also, if not moreover, callously dropping the award demonstrates with irony that living without emotion is a lie.

All of that is inferred. The connection to V'ger is directly stated later when Spock comes aboard the ship. The way that it affects him is shown throughout the rest of the film. He more explicitly makes his feelings clear on the medical bed table "logic is not enough" as an actual revelation. You don't need to do it repeatedly, especially when the Vulcan scene exists within a vacuum roughly 30 minutes separate from the rest of Spock's involvement.

The early film deals with Kirk, Decker, and The Enterprise. Spock's direct involvement does not come until later anyway, so establishing things that can only be inferred, and are not actually directly established until later is just a waste of film space. Even Leonard Nimoy himself has said that Spock's role was dubious, and that the Vulcan scene seemed little more than an excuse to show Spock on Vulcan. Whatever is inferred, probably was not directly intended by the writer.

The Spock/Vulcan scene is really quite essential, as it is is filled with emotion, so I pass on your suggestions.

Raw emotion isn't often enough for a scene to be essential. It has to have a purpose beyond just making you feel something. It's a dubious scene that treads water we will cover at great length throughout the entire film to come, and it comes at a time in the film where it is literally passed over for several other developing threads.

It's a great scene for the atmosphere, visuals, and emotion, but no, it is not a necessary scene. As removing it does nothing but good for the film's pace, story structure, and plotting. The entire first section of the film is now about the looming threat of V'ger, Kirk and Decker's conflict, and getting The Enterprise underway quickly. So when Spock comes into the story, you are shown and told what his motivations are and it acts as a twist in the plot to have Spock showing up with a potentially mysterious (even sinister?) agenda.
 
Like the Spock on Vulcan scene a lot of these edits translate into telling rather than seeing. Often it's more satisfying to see what's happening rather than being told what happened. This isn't television.
 
I've been holding off on posting this wall of text, but bare with me. This is essentially a run down of everything I would change in the TMP edit to make it move faster.


Original Runtime: 02:11:52 (Including opening and ending credits)
New Runtime: 01:37:03 (not including opening and ending credits.)

Any scenes that are skipped over were either completely unedited from their original form, or had such minimal editing that they do not need to be referenced. :)


Remove the opening overture.

Cut down the opening sequence.
Particularly the overly long reveal of Epsilon IX. Location isn't worthy of this much focus. Tighten up some of the editing in the Klingon battle.

Remove Spock/Vulcan scene entirely.
There is nothing in here that contributes to the story at all. Literally everything the scene tells us is also dealt with later when Spock arrives on Enterprise. Now Spock's sudden appearance helps elevate the excitement of the events taking place.

Remove San Francisco/Starfleet Command entirely.
Go right to an establishing shot of Earth/Orbital Office. This is an extraneous scene that introduces a character solely to kill him off later.

Trim Office Complex sequence.
Again, we don't need fifty overly long shots of the model, no matter how awesome it looks. Rework the office scene to be just as heroic an introduction for Kirk as the SFC scene. Now he literally beams into the movie. :techman:

Reduce the size of the approach/fly around Enterprise.
Using the dialogue between Kirk and Scotty to resequence the events. Keeping the sense of awe, without dragging it on several minutes longer than is needed. The scene should be about establishing Kirk's lack of recent star time, and reintroducing the audience and Kirk to The Enterprise. Less is more.

Remove the transporter accident.
Kirk's lack of recent experience is discussed on the travel pod, with Decker in engineering, and culminates in the wormhole/discussion in Kirk's quarters. This scene is just an excuse to horribly murder a character who did not need to be in the film to begin with.

Remove the aftermath of the transporter accident.
It can be inferred that Decker's reduction to XO puts him in the science officer role and whoever would have done that job originally is down in one of the science labs.

Remove the silly Ilia nonsense.
Just trimming the dialogue so that the emphasis is on establishing:

A. Decker and her had a relationship.
B. There's a building tension between Kirk and Decker.

Take out Uhura's "Deltan" emphasis. Sulu/Chekov's doofy reaction shots, and the line about Ilia's oath of celebacy. Scene moves a little faster, and has much less awkward in it.

Remove the entire recreation deck briefing scene.
(I know! I KNOW! Just stay with me here. :lol:)

Chop out the goofy "I ALMOST MISSED THE DOOR" scene from leaving dry dock.
Loses the beautiful shot of the Enterprise with the sun rising behind it unfortunately, but the scene flows just fine without it. We get plenty of beauty shots of the E in the film. We can afford to lose some of these.

Insert a newly created scene between leaving dry dock and the wormhole sequence.
The Enterprise receives a signal from Epsilon IX. Sequence ends with stunned reaction shots of the crew as Epsilon IX is digitized. Transitions into Captain Kirk's log. Now with a bit more sense of immediate danger playing on things.

This scene is composed of editing the briefing footage into the bridge view screen (using several angles from other scenes in the film to give it less of a static feeling) and reaction shots cut from other sections of the film.

Wormhole sequence is left mostly unchanged.
Reducing some of Chekov's hammy slow motion performance, and taking out a shot of Ilia awkwardly bouncing in her seat. Shortens the scene and makes it play faster. I also think some music from one of Goldsmith's other scores would be good for this sequence. TOS almost never did a sequence like this without some bombastic music going with it.

Recut the scene between Kirk/Decker/Bones with Spock's Shuttle approaching.
When Decker leaves, transition to show the shuttle mysteriously approaching. Come back for the second half of the discussion, now have a much shorter section of the shuttle docking.

Scenes play much faster and with more energy this way. (And a heightened sense of mystery is added to the second half of the Bones/Kirk discussion.). Also, this edit excises Decker/Ilia melodramatic romance. We still get their history together from the rest of the film.

Remove the "sit down" nonsense in the lounge scene.
Kirk ushers the two men to sit down after the opening dialogue, and then after Kirk points out to Spock that he broke the Kolinahr by reupping with the crew. Spock then sits down, taking the point. No need to have Kirk repeat himself 50 times and unnecessarily drag out the scene.

Remove the "I can stop his pain" nonsense.
It never goes anywhere in the story. This really feels like a vestigial holdover from when the script was intended as the pilot for P2. Establishing character traits/abilities that never pay off.

Reduce cloud penetration sequence.
Make it about the characters reacting and not the visual effects. The line from Spock about the patterns being unrecognizable is good. There's a couple of decent reaction shots of the crew, but a lot of the FX just serves to drag the movie to a halt and it does not need to be this long to convey the size of V'ger's protective cloud.

Reduce V'ger Flyover.
Using the dialogue between the character's to rebridge the sequence you can cut this one virtually by 75%. Mostly by trimming shots. Some can literally be cut by half their length and you lose absolutely nothing.

Trim bits of the Probe sequence.
Remove Kirk reiterating what Decker already said about not interfering. Remove Spock smashing the controls. Instead make it look like Spock ATTEMPTS to interfere with the probe and get's blasted for it. Remove one of the more awkward Decker shots right before Ilia is digitized. (His acting looks very contrived in one shot.)

Remove the "jetpack tutorial."
Start the scene with Spock recording his first message to Kirk. Spock Walk scene is perfectly fine as is.

Spock laying on the operating table in sickbay
Cull the pullback before Chapel comes into frame and sticks that thing into his ear. It's just gibberish dialogue. Cut from Spock on the table to Kirk and Bones looking at the monitor. Then Spock chuckles. Trim out the excessive "SPOCK! JIM! BONES! SPOCK!" Nonsense. Kirk grabs Spock's shoulders and Spock comes back around. Again, staying on point here. Recut the rest of the sequence to remove Kirk's one-way conversation with Bones. Kirk says he needs Spock ready to go back to duty and then talks with Chekov. We already had exposition about V'ger, we don't need Kirk to repeat it to us again.

Micro edits and trimming to the sequences that follow.
Mostly carving out the dead air that seems to exist. Kirk's "V'GER...V'GER!" to Ilia. Making the Ilia probe more insistent about Kirk revealing the information. Also, cut down the time it takes the Enterprise to fly through the flower-hole-orifice-of-metaphors.

The majority of the final sequence at Voyager can be left unchanged.
It all works pretty swimmingly. All the major arcs come to a close nicely. Mostly just trimming a shot here or there to keep things moving at pace.


It probably reads like a butchery to some folks, especially big TMP fans, but this isn't really conceptual. I've made these edits, and although they're very rough and need some finesse, they can work. They help to make TMP much closer to the feeling of The Original Series, and get rid of a lot of the dead weight in the film.

Just about every one of these suggestions would ruin the feel of the movie and why it is my favorite movie. For me Sci-Fi is more than just characters in space but it is about space and the technology that got us to space. It is also about exploring something we don't know. If you cut that out you might as well not be making a sci-fi story.

At least that is how I feel about it.
 
All of that is inferred. The connection to V'ger is directly stated later when Spock comes aboard the ship. The way that it affects him is shown throughout the rest of the film. He more explicitly makes his feelings clear on the medical bed table "logic is not enough" as an actual revelation. You don't need to do it repeatedly, especially when the Vulcan scene exists within a vacuum roughly 30 minutes separate from the rest of Spock's involvement.

Couple points:

-Better to show than tell.

-The scene in the lounge isn't so much about the audience finding out about Spock (as the earlier scene establishes as much), it's more about the interactions between the characters, showing how Spock has become stiff, how Kirk wants the old groove back with his friends. It also shows McCoy and Kirks worries about how their friend might be under the influence of the creature. Sure it's more economical to cut the Vulcan scene, but it adds some emotional resonance for Spock, as we SEE how his years of work were, in the span of a minute, all undone by this side of himself he has tried to rid himself of (not to mention adding to the visual palette of the movie).

-If you cut the scene then there is no setup for Spocks arrival, which then devolves in to "then this just happens" instead of "and then this happened because of this". It feels random. This is closely related to the first point.
 
I dare anyone who suggests cutting down the flyaround sequence to try cutting down the music first.

Goldsmith's score is beautiful, and the La-La Land 3-disc set is one of my prized possessions, but he wrote the score so that it could be easily trimmed in editing. This is especially true in the V'Ger flyover sequence, but it's true in other scenes as well, including the Enterprise fly-around.
 
^ :lol:

Never saw on initial release, but got to see later in a 70mm presentation at NFT in London. My thoughts of first time saw it:

1. The outfits seemed strange and boringly 'futuristic' (compared to TOS' work-a-day clothes)...but could live with it.
2. Shatner's 'I need you...badly' just leapt out as a wtf bad moment, and every time I've watched since, it just makes me snort. It did feel like it took Meyer to get the actors back into their TOS groove.
3. Some really bad bluescreen that took you out of it....
4. Decker's tight-fitting outfit :)

Other than that:

* It had Wise's hallmark pacing and glacial cool, which I loved. Yes, it could do with re-editing, but all the elements are there.
* loved the sfx (esp V'ger travelling sequences) and Doug Trumbull's work. The opening Klingon fleet shot, IMHO, is even better than Star Wars because of the camera moves it pulls off. Yeah, heresy...but true :p
* adored the soundtrack, and still one of my favourites ever.
* it's still the only Trek movie I think captures the wonder/bafflement of encountering an alien species/artifact as per TOS. In that sense, I find it the 'purest'...

Even though regularly watch in blu-ray on big screen, I think it's one of those rare films that is so much better projected on a big movie screen...

In my top 5 trek movies along with TWOK and TFF (yes, that one)
 
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