Will TOS expand my enjoyment as a fan?

[JesdenScott]

This is my first thread and I guess it's just me establishing a "presence" here on this board.
I very recently finished watching Enterprise for the first time and now I have a vague sadness that there is no more "new trek" to experience. TNG was my first and I've seen most of those episodes twice, DS9 once and Voyager once. All of the movies.

I've tried starting TOS. Netflix apparently has an enhanced version so the planets look a bit cooler so that's nice. But am I really missing a "true trek" experience if I don't go back to watch them?

Is it BLASPHEMY??

My thread title is the real point here though. As I've read from many of you as I've lurked these boards for a while now, the real established "canon" was not so much written deliberately or thought hard about for TOS, was it? Most of that comes from fans and TNG onward, no?

I've a mind to just start watching DS9 or TNG again.

I suppose this is a thread to engage in some conversations with the real hardcore fans regarding the "value" of TOS to a newcomer. I say newcomer, because I've never watched TOS in its entirety. I know the characters, I know the universe fairly well, I loved the movies, but will TOS truly add more value to my experience as a fan? Yes, this is subjective, but I'm seeking opinions here. Sell yours to me

Let's hear your thoughts!

 

[T'Girl]

All the series have a few bad episodes, that said I think you going and viewing the origins and the core of Star Trek will increase your over all Star Trek experience.

 

[CTGuyton]

I started it on Netflix but I wasn't able to get through it. I just lost interest. i absolutly give it it's credit, but it was 50 years ago. It's just not the quality of television that I'm used to and want to watch. i have a hard time with some of TNG for the same reason.

 

[JesdenScott]

I started it on Netflix but I wasn't able to get through it. I just lost interest. i absolutly give it it's credit, but it was 50 years ago. It's just not the quality of television that I'm used to and want to watch. i have a hard time with some of TNG for the same reason.

Yeah, I'm the same way. If I ever think about "re-watching" TNG, I'm immediately turned away by the idea of watching the first two seasons.

TOS would be "new" at least to me. But yeah, it's pretty dated.

 

[Dale Sams]

It just depends. To me, it's not dated at all. The stories are better because a lot of them were written by real Sci-Fi writers and not TV writers, the guest stars great. Shatner's acting style is horribly unappreciated. And I'm not referring to the stereotypical style, I'm referring to his naturalistic approach often seen in the first two seasons. Also the writers weren't afraid to make Kirk an ass to his crew at times. Sometimes, he apologized...sometimes he didn't.

Also, there were no B and C stories going on in the same episode. It's not serialized, so it's more Sci-Fi then Space Drama.

None of the above is a slam on any versions of Trek, btw...I'm just trying to express why I think TOS is the best.

 

[JesdenScott]

None of the above is a slam on any versions of Trek, btw...I'm just trying to express why I think TOS is the best.

Glad you shared though.

The "dated" comment I merely meant in regards to effects and certain camera direction (ie, silly dramatic face zooms). However, being a big fan of the original Twilight Zone series, I'm not one to discard something with "good writing" due to dated filming or effects. Some of those TZ episodes are brilliant.

But yeah, I've never had any problem with Shatner or the original cast. I suppose the potential "cheese factor" in general for TOS just deterred me

 

[TheSubCommander]

JesdenScott, my thoughts:

Some love TOS and TOS movies, and reject everything else.
Some love TNG/DS9/VOY/TNG movies and reject everything else.
Some love ENT, along with or without any other trek.
Some love the Abramsverse movies and reject everything else.
And there is ton of other combinations.

I love TOS, and can't imagine Star Trek without it, but that's just me. I'm assuming you are younger, and didn't grow up watching TOS reruns like I did.

I think if you watched movies 1-6 and liked them, and TNG-ENT and like them, you pretty much got the essence of Star Trek. It seemed to me that because of the FX divide and change in filmography from 1969 (when TOS ended) to 1979 (debut of TMP), that the unsaid intent by Paramount (blasphemy for me to say this to a lot of fans) was to regard TOS as a whole with a loose sense of canon, without referencing any single episode.

All you needed to know from TMP on, if you were new to Star Trek, was that Kirk and crew had an historic 5 year mission with many adventures in that show back in the 1960s( EXCEPT for the episode Space Seed that features Khan), but didn't need to actually see those episodes. Even then, you didn't necessarily need to see Space Seed to understand TWOK. Since then, there has been some episodes in other series that reference some TOS episodes directly or indirectly. But honestly, I think Star Trek 1-6 captured the essence of TOS.

That said, I would say you should give these 10 episodes a try, and stream them. Not only are they among my personal favorites, they do have ties to later episodes and movies:

1. Where No man has gone before (the second pilot, first with Kirk...not necessarily needed, but it is nice to see the first episode with Kirk and crew)
2. Balance of Terror (first with Romulans, just a great episode)
3. Mirror,Mirror (first mirror universe episode)
4. Space Seed (Khan!)
5. Journey to Babel (Sarek and Amanda introduced:Spock's parents which you see in TSFS and TVH)
6. Tholian Web (prequel\sequel to ENT In a Mirror, Darkly)
7. The Menagerie 1&2 (kill 2 birds with one stone: see most of the original pilot with Pike as captain, along with a great episode with Kirk and Spock)
8. The Ultimate Computer (great commentary on limitations of machines, Daystrom institute has been mentioned in TNG episodes, sort of a prequel to Data, and attitudes he sometimes had to overcome)
9. The Naked Time (Prequel to TNG's Naked Now, establishes time travel method for TVH)
10. Amok Time (First episode with Vulcan, famous Kirk VS Spock scene)

Runners up
The Doomsday Machine (Commodore Decker, Will Decker's apocryphal Dad)
Arena (come one, you have to see Kirk fight a lizard man with a bamboo cannon!)
Squire of Gothos (sort of a precursor to Q)
The Enterprise Incident (establishes Romulans and Klingons shared tech, just a good episode)

 

[JesdenScott]

TheSubCommander,

Wow, thanks for your detailed reply. This is exactly what I could use, a good set of suggestions and how they may expand canon or connect with other series/movies.

I'll definitely check out the episodes you've suggested. Who knows, I may end up watching all 3 seasons if I enjoy them enough

 

[YARN]

If you don't like it, you're under no obligation to watcht it.

I would, however, caution against globally stating that TOS is simply "dated," as if newer TV has progressed on all fronts and is, therefore, "better."

Big Band music is "dated," but much of it is as good if not better than a lot of contemporary pop music. Again, this doesn't mean you have to like it, but we should be careful not to be chronocentric and simply dismiss it as inferior or "behind."

TOS is well-written, well-paced, and well-directed. The FX are dated. The moral territory of the time is hardly subversive or edgy now, because the general POV it was forwarding is now widely accepted. Even today's died-in-the-wool conservative (with a few notable execptions), is basically a TOS liberal.

I think that if a person can watch Bonanza and get over the "sixtees-ness" of it all, then one should be able to enjor TOS. Just don't blame TOS for not being "the future" (why are they carrying memory chips? where is the WiFi), because scifi never perfectly captures the future - most often, scifi is not simply "futurism" but a philosophical thought experiment (e.g., politics, ethics, identity, consciousness, power) and TOS has this in spades.

 

[TheSubCommander]

TheSubCommander,

Wow, thanks for your detailed reply. This is exactly what I could use, a good set of suggestions and how they may expand canon or connect with other series/movies.

I'll definitely check out the episodes you've suggested. Who knows, I may end up watching all 3 seasons if I enjoy them enough

I think you may find you like TOS, and want to see more if you give some of those episodes I recommended, a try. I hope you do!

Personally, (while I prefer the ORIGINAL versions) I think if you are a younger fan who's never seen TOS, I would recommend watching the remastered versions, because the space scenes more closely match the feel of what came later, and the FX gap may not seem as "jarring." Nothing is taken away from the actual plot points.

Also, I think those episodes I recommended really do highlight the great acting that came from Nimoy, Shatner, and Kelley.

 

[F. King Daniel]

If you don't like what you've seen of TOS, don't torture yourself with more (and there's also the short-lived Animated Series too). But I must admit, I'm bewildered that anyone can prefer TNG to TOS...

 

[Isolinear]

If you want to know the origins of DS9's Kor, Kang and Koloth, you have to watch:

Errand of Mercy (first Klingon episode!)
The Trouble with Tribbles
Day of the Dove

TNG was my first trek, and TOS was a bit cheesy after that, but it quickly grew on me. Don't miss out!

 

[TheSubCommander]

If you don't like what you've seen of TOS, don't torture yourself with more (and there's also the short-lived Animated Series too). But I must admit, I'm bewildered that anyone can prefer TNG to TOS...

I'm not! You have to consider the age of the viewer and when they grew up (IE you and I may have grown up on TOS reruns, others grew up on TNG episodes), AND that not everyone is going to identify with Kirk/Spock/McCoy over other Trek characters.

If you want to know the origins of DS9's Kor, Kang and Koloth, you have to watch:

Errand of Mercy (first Klingon episode!)
The Trouble with Tribbles
Day of the Dove

TNG was my first trek, and TOS was a bit cheesy after that, but it quickly grew on me. Don't miss out!

More properly, the first appearances of those characters, not their origins.

 

[CTGuyton]

died-in-the-wool conservative

I had never heard that before. Being a conservative, I wasn't sure if it was a subsect(log cabin) or more along the lines of bleeding heart liberal. Now that I know what it means, I'm sure I'll hear it everywhere. Like buying a new car and suddenly you notice everyone else has one too.

 

[CTGuyton]

But I must admit, I'm bewildered that anyone can prefer TNG to TOS...

I was born in '86. I literally grew up watching TNG.

 

[MacLeod]

To each their own, when we grew up can impact on our tastes. TOS like all shows has it's bad episodes, if it's not for you it's not for you. But TV like anything else evolves overtime. Out of interest what episodes did you see or attempt to watch?

 

[F. King Daniel]

Me too (born in '84). It's what got me into Trek, but I find it mostly horrible now (with a few gems like "Yesterday's Enterprise"). Picard's speeches about humanity having evolved, Troi's and Beverly's utterly useless contributions ("He's hiding something!" "I need to run more tests!"), Geordi and Data's endless technobabble... it's like nails on a chalkboard. With TOS, Kirk, Spock and McCoy and their interactions make even the worst stories watchable.

You milage may vary

 

[YARN]

Me too (born in '84). It's what got me into Trek, but I find it mostly horrible now (with a few gems like "Yesterday's Enterprise"). Picard's speeches about humanity having evolved, Troi's and Beverly's utterly useless contributions ("He's hiding something!" "I need to run more tests!"), Geordi and Data's endless technobabble... it's like nails on a chalkboard. With TOS, Kirk, Spock and McCoy and their interactions make even the worst stories watchable.

You milage may vary

What really strikes me about TOS is how efficient it is. I never really noticed until I started trying some alternate edits of TOS episodes -- my projects forced me to consider shot composition, timing, plot development, etc. I found that TOS is "lean." The camera is always in the right place, the dialogue is always moving the show forward, the scenes are changing at a brisk pace. Everything that needs to be there is there, it fits together well, and there is very little extraneous stuff. The people who made TOS were really good at making television shows. It's lean and snappy, the characters are likeable, and the stories are usually pretty good.

 

[dub]

Since you have Netflix, I would definitely say watch it. Especially if you've seen all of the movies and enjoyed those. I watched it here and there growing up, and I've watched it straight through now on Netflix. Glad I did. It's not my favorite TV series of the bunch (though I cherish the TOS films), but I'm sure I'll re-watch it again at some point. If nothing else, it's fun to see the origins of this now huge part of our human culture.

 

[TheSubCommander]

Me too (born in '84). It's what got me into Trek, but I find it mostly horrible now (with a few gems like "Yesterday's Enterprise"). Picard's speeches about humanity having evolved, Troi's and Beverly's utterly useless contributions ("He's hiding something!" "I need to run more tests!"), Geordi and Data's endless technobabble... it's like nails on a chalkboard. With TOS, Kirk, Spock and McCoy and their interactions make even the worst stories watchable.

You milage may vary

What really strikes me about TOS is how efficient it is. I never really noticed until I started trying some alternate edits of TOS episodes -- my projects forced me to consider shot composition, timing, plot development, etc. I found that TOS is "lean." The camera is always in the right place, the dialogue is always moving the show forward, the scenes are changing at a brisk pace. Everything that needs to be there is there, it fits together well, and there is very little extraneous stuff. The people who made TOS were really good at making television shows. It's lean and snappy, the characters are likeable, and the stories are usually pretty good.

Yeah I have to agree. Even by 1960s standards, TOS was sort of low budget in the FX department. So I think there was a lot more care and effort put into the lighting, cinematography, acting, and story telling to help make up for it. That, and I just happen to think that they did a really great job casting Nimoy, Shatner, and Kelly as the big three, and secondary characters like Scotty, Uhura, Sulu, Chekov, and Chapel, while not usually needed, were colorful characters that I think added a lot to the show, even if they were minor characters.

By contrast, right out of the box, TNG at first tried to rely more on FX, and/or trying to do updates to TOS stories (IE Naked Now), cater to 1980s touchy feely pop-psychology motifs, or recycle ideas from Phase 2 stories. Many episodes came off as clunky, during the time TNG was trying to find its stride. Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of great season 1 and 2 episodes in TNG, but IMHO, it wasn't until TNG really got back to the basics of character development, became more efficient with their a-b story-lines, and the actors themselves settled into their parts, that TNG became really good. Many will say that didn't happen until season 3, which I can't argue with, but I think that transition really started somewhere in season 2, to be honest.

Also, it seemed like there were too many characters in TNG at first. It was like the field was crowded. I think by season 3, they learned to just focus on certain characters for each given episode, which helped make it more efficient in presenting the characters, and stories.