Fantastic Four reboot-- Casting, Rumors, Pix, ect;

[Rincewiend]

Having part of a pair and not the other part a different race raises the specter of tokenism.

You took the post right out of my fingers; I was beginning to wonder if anyone even knew that word anymore. That's exactly what this re-racing of characters is. I'm surprised people like Sam Jackson put up with it.

Well, the artist/writer of the Ultimate universe thought it would be cool if Nick Fury looked like Sam Jackson...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultimate_Nick_Fury

When Nick Fury first made his appearance in the Ultimate Universe, he had a vastly different design, resembling more the original mainstream version with notable differences, featuring a full head of close-cropped hair, a clean-shaven, younger appearance (particularly as depicted in Ultimate Marvel Team-Up) and less visible scarring around his eye-patch, not to mention lacking a specific resemblance to any actor. He wore seemingly normal clothing which integrated outlandishly high-tech capabilities such as phasing, invisibility, and "para-shoes" that allow him to descend hundreds of feet without the aid of a parachute (shown to be capable of flight in later issues).[2]

When the character resurfaced in 2002 in The Ultimates, he had been redesigned to look like actor Samuel L. Jackson. Jackson did not originally give his consent for Marvel Comics to use his likeness in their redesign of the Fury character for The Ultimates,[3] and first appeared with this revised look in The Ultimates #1, as drawn by Bryan Hitch. The similarity is even noted within the comic itself, in a scene in which the Ultimates discuss who they think should play each of them in a hypothetical movie about the team. Fury's answer for himself is "Mr. Samuel L. Jackson, of course, no discussion." It was only after seeing the redesigned Nick Fury in the first issue of The Ultimates that Samuel L. Jackson learned of the use of his likeness and contacted Marvel in order to secure the role of Nick Fury in any future movies which will feature the character.

Though in the main universe they introduced the original Nick Fury's biracial, out-of-wedlock, son of him who is bald and black and wears an eyepatch as a reaction to the popularity of the Sam Jackson/Ultimate version...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Fury,_Jr.

 

[Captaindemotion]

I really don't care what colour any of the Four are, but I agree that the Storms should be siblings. Adapted siblings can work too, I suppose - why do we need to adhere to the traditional concept of the homogenous nuclear family?

However, it occurs to me that it would almost be a cliché to make the wise-ass, thrill-seeking Johnny Storm black. We see quite a lot of black characters like that onscreen. Mightn't it be a more interesting and unusual bit of colour-blind casting to cast a black man as the intellectual scientist Reed Richards?

Of course, if Jordan is the man who's tested best for Johnny, then let them go with him.

 

[Photoman15]

I wouldn't care if they made Johnny and Sue black, or all four of them for that matter---I dare them to do it! But to cast Sue and Johnny as people of different color and of the wrong relative ages and then come up with an adoption angle to explain it just seems needlessly convoluted.

I'm on board for that. My personal priority is keeping the relationships intact, so if Johnny is black I would prefer Sue to be too. If switching all four works better, I say go for it.

Yes, we saw how well that worked for The Honeymooners.

 

[Captaindemotion]

^So you think the Honeymooners failed because of the colour of the cast as oppose to the quality of the script, direction etc?

Seriously? A film based on a 50 year old tv show that hardly anyone going to the cinemas now has actually seen?

 

[Photoman15]

No, I think it failed because Honeymooner fans know Ralph (et al) as associated with Jackie Gleason (et al). A good script would have helped, but....

When stunt casting (or PC casting) is done just because it is PC or a big name, it usually doesn't work. An exception is The Wiz. There are probably more. In 20 years, should they remake Machete with Justin Beiber ?

 

[TheSeeker]

There is no amount of acting that will overcome 50 years of a major character being presented as white. It doesn't matter if the character is real or imagined; you have a 50 year history of people expecting a certain product (including the recent two films that had a white Johnny Storm). You can't pull a switch out and expect it to retain the same audience.

The vast majority of the movie-going public couldn't care less about the history. They don't even know about it. They just want to see a good movie with good actors.

As for Sue and John being of different ethnicity, it's really not an issue. So many people are getting divorced and remarried these days they could easily be step-siblings.

 

[Captaindemotion]

No, I think it failed because Honeymooner fans know Ralph (et al) as associated with Jackie Gleason (et al). A good script would have helped, but....

When stunt casting (or PC casting) is done just because it is PC or a big name, it usually doesn't work. An exception is The Wiz. There are probably more. In 20 years, should they remake Machete with Justin Beiber ?

What portion of cinema fans now are Honeymooner fans? It's a relic from TV history. Nobody under 60 could have seen it when it first aired. It's little known outside the USA.

The views of 'Honeymooner fans' are completely irrelevant to whether or not a remake succeeded or failed. Do you honestly think that 'Honeymooner fans' constitute any sort of demographic that movie-makers in the 21st century are going to take into account? The film failed because it wasn't very good (apparently).

I'm not in favour of 'stunt-casting' but it's all about casting the best person for the job. For my money, Michael Clarke Duncan made a much more convincing Kingpin than most actors would have. Samuel L. Jackson was a perfect Nick Fury (but I'd have been fine with them casting someone like Kurt Russell as the old-school Russell). It's not about being PC, it's about trying out the widest possible range of actors for the role.

Justin Beiber would be horrible as Machete not because he's white, but because he's small and effete. I honestly have no idea what Michael B Jordan is like as an actor but I think capturing Johnny Storm's attitude and demeanour is much more important than having the same skin colour as him. I mean, the guy who plays The Thing is unlikely to be built out of brick.

Frankly, the list of names on their wishlist for Reed Richards strike me as way more cause for concern - they all seem too young and none strikes me as giving the right aura of intellect and science boffin. But hey, they have the right skin colour...

 

[ITL]

I honestly have no idea what Michael B Jordan is like as an actor

He played a blinder in Season 1 of The Wire, that I do know.

 

[Trek4Ever]

Pretty late to this debate but this reboot just smells all wrong to me. In an interview with Collider, Miles Teller was stating that they were going to ditch the uniforms and go off in another direction. Yuck!

It's bad enough they are going with the Ultimate FF version, which sucked, but they're going with these actors for Reed Richards that look like they just left puberty. Richards is supposed to be a middle aged Einstein level genius who is the father figure in the group. A core concept of the FF is that they are a family unit. and picking these actors would negate that completely. Teller looks younger than Michael B. Jordan!

I wouldn't be surprised if it winds up underperforming. I just wish the rights would revert back to Marvel already.

 

[TheSeeker]

They should just go the First Class route and make it a period piece.

 

[Captaindemotion]

^ I agree. I remember reading maybe 10 - 12 years ago that they were going to set it in the 60s, with the Four being the 'other' Fab Four of that era. I think that's why Peyton Reed was linked to it - his success with that under-rated little 60s throwback comedy Down With Love.

Indeed, if Fox wants to make a shared Universe with X-Men, surely a period FF would make crossovers so much easier?

 

[Turtletrekker]

Pretty late to this debate but this reboot just smells all wrong to me. In an interview with Collider, Miles Teller was stating that they were going to ditch the uniforms and go off in another direction. Yuck!

Yuck, indeed. More and more, I feel as if I want nothing to do with this. And I'm not just being Joe-blow internet, I love the Fantastic Four. Hell, I started this thread. I started this thread. I so wanted this movie to be what the previous on-screen incarnations weren't. Now, I'm getting the feeling that I will be coming to appreciate Tim Story versions.

I'd rather not see it at all than see it done badly/wrong... again.

 

[Harvey]

However, if it helps, the alternative response I had considered was: "Would you watch it once they cast Genghis Khan as a white person?"

Well, it's been done. Good luck not tearing your eyes out, though.

 

[BillJ]

I don't understand why anyone would care about the skin color of a fictional character?

 

[Alidar Jarok]

However, if it helps, the alternative response I had considered was: "Would you watch it once they cast Genghis Khan as a white person?"

Well, it's been done. Good luck not tearing your eyes out, though.

Yeah that was previously my point.

 

[gblews]

No. They have to be brother and sister. Period. The family angle is what made FF unique among Marvel super-teams in the first place.

I agree. The brother/sister dynamic was one of the main things I liked about the team. However, and I think I said this same thing way, way back in this thread, that if the Torch is black, leave Sue white, and like Spielberg did in The Lost World, don't offer any explanation. Let those whose heads tend to explode over race "issues", explode.

Yeah, that's my complaint. If anything I'm not criticizing them for making Johnny Storm black, I'm criticizing them for making Susan Storm white. Having part of a pair and not the other part a different race raises the specter of tokenism. They're afraid to take the risk of not trying to appeal to minorities while also being afraid to be seen to have too many minorities. I'm hoping they also weren't afraid to have an interracial couple and that influenced their decision.

Having part of a pair and not the other part a different race raises the specter of tokenism.

You took the post right out of my fingers; I was beginning to wonder if anyone even knew that word anymore. That's exactly what this re-racing of characters is. I'm surprised people like Sam Jackson put up with it. What they need to do is actually create Black characters (and other minorities, and so on). Diversity is not served by putting a White character in blackface-- that raises the specter of Ted Danson.

I think the concept of "tokenism" as a point of discussion particularly about numbers of minorities in otherwise "white dominated" areas is fine. But in the real world, how are you going to ask an actor not to take a job simply because there aren't enough people who look like him on the set? And how are you going to ask an actor who is greatful for every job he/she gets, to demand other minorities be hired? For those who can do that without negative ramifications, fine, but I sure wouldn't fault any actor for staying as far away from this type of stuff as possible.

 

[theenglish]

Pretty late to this debate but this reboot just smells all wrong to me. In an interview with Collider, Miles Teller was stating that they were going to ditch the uniforms and go off in another direction. Yuck!

Yuck, indeed. More and more, I feel as if I want nothing to do with this. And I'm not just being Joe-blow internet, I love the Fantastic Four. Hell, I started this thread. I started this thread. I so wanted this movie to be what the previous on-screen incarnations weren't. Now, I'm getting the feeling that I will be coming to appreciate Tim Story versions.

I'd rather not see it at all than see it done badly/wrong... again.

Funnily though, the original concept was that the FF not have uniforms. Stan Lee (and Kirby?) introduced costumes only after the first issue or so didn't fare well. Once they introduced the FF as Super-Heroes with costumes then sales went up.

 

[Trek4Ever]

OMG, it gets worse, here's the plot synopsis according to Aint It Cool:

“The Fantastic Four’ will tell the story of two very young friends, Reed Richards and Ben Grimm. After an event transforms the boys, they find themselves empowered with bizarre new abilities. Reed becomes a scientific genius who can stretch, twist and re-shape his body to inhuman proportions. Ben becomes a monstrous, craggy humanoid with orange, rock-like skin and super strength. However, the two end up being owned by the government and used as weapons. But after they mature, two others with powers come into the picture – Sue Storm “The Invisible Girl” and Johnny Storm “The Human Torch.”

Here's the link for the article:
http://www.aintitcool.com/node/65887

Seriously, Fox should stop right now. And to think people were going nuts over Michael Douglas being cast as Hank Pym.

 

[Turtletrekker]

I feel sick.

 

[Dream]

“The Fantastic Four’ will tell the story of two very young friends, Reed Richards and Ben Grimm. After an event transforms the boys, they find themselves empowered with bizarre new abilities. Reed becomes a scientific genius who can stretch, twist and re-shape his body to inhuman proportions. Ben becomes a monstrous, craggy humanoid with orange, rock-like skin and super strength. However, the two end up being owned by the government and used as weapons. But after they mature, two others with powers come into the picture – Sue Storm “The Invisible Girl” and Johnny Storm “The Human Torch.”

I feel like FOX has stopped trying to make the FF movies any good.