Generations: Worst Possible Crossover Idea?

[2takesfrakes]

Right! And this is not a particular criticism I have of William Shatner, but he's not a fan of STAR TREK. So ... he's not going to care about leaving Kirk's fitting closure in TUC alone and just moving onto other things. He's a working actor, and STAR TREK had been his gig for so long, I can't honestly blame him for going for it. I certainly would've, if I shared his perspective, at all. The problem with him being in Generations, though, is that everything has to be so Kirkcentric, throughout. Even when he meets Picard, it can't just be a meeting of the minds, he has to make Picard follow HIM around ... acting like he's ignoring Picard's every word, like he's challenging him, the whole time.

Now, when Picard first sees Kirk and he's like, kind of in awe ... yeah ... I totally expect that! But Generations tries to keep that attitude through the picture, like, "I can't believe they actually got James T. Kirk in THIS movie! Oh, WOW!!!" The entire script was so self-serving to William Shatner, and it was so naked about it, that's the thing! And when we get to the end, where he's dying on the "bridge" (how corny can you get?) and he goes, "... did we make a difference?" ... it sickens me. Even now, at the end, he has to suck the marrow out of this movie. Maybe some of us wanted to see a show that was entertaining, instead of a Shatner Ego Massage for an hour and a half.

 

[Khan 2.0]

the kirk in GEN is the star trek V 'shat kirk'...not the proper kirk of Treks I-IV & VI

 

[Mr Light]

the other thing that pisses me off is the Enterprise D gets destroyed by the DURSA SISTERS? In a single beat up old Bird of Prey? REALLY?!

 

[Commishsleer]

Right! And this is not a particular criticism I have of William Shatner, but he's not a fan of STAR TREK. So ... he's not going to care about leaving Kirk's fitting closure in TUC alone and just moving onto other things. He's a working actor, and STAR TREK had been his gig for so long, I can't honestly blame him for going for it. I certainly would've, if I shared his perspective, at all. The problem with him being in Generations, though, is that everything has to be so Kirkcentric, throughout. Even when he meets Picard, it can't just be a meeting of the minds, he has to make Picard follow HIM around ... acting like he's ignoring Picard's every word, like he's challenging him, the whole time.

Now, when Picard first sees Kirk and he's like, kind of in awe ... yeah ... I totally expect that! But Generations tries to keep that attitude through the picture, like, "I can't believe they actually got James T. Kirk in THIS movie! Oh, WOW!!!" The entire script was so self-serving to William Shatner, and it was so naked about it, that's the thing! And when we get to the end, where he's dying on the "bridge" (how corny can you get?) and he goes, "... did we make a difference?" ... it sickens me. Even now, at the end, he has to suck the marrow out of this movie. Maybe some of us wanted to see a show that was entertaining, instead of a Shatner Ego Massage for an hour and a half.

Shatner didn't write the script.
It was Braga, Berman and Moore.
They didn't have any problems making Scotty or Spock look inferior in TNG episodes, so what was the problem in GENERATIONS.?

 

[Robert Comsol]

@ CommishSleer

Bill Shatner asking for bigger lines?

@ Mr Light

Worse, they completely forgot that they could modulate their shield frequency.

Bob

 

[Mr Light]

Good thing the Borg weren't there!

 

[Commishsleer]

@ CommishSleer

Bill Shatner asking for bigger lines?

So how many lines was Shatner responsible for and how many are the poor victims Brannon, Braga and Moore responsible for?

Nimoy says the script was nonsense the moment he saw it presumably before Shatner had a chance to steal the lines from his poor fellow cast members.

 

[Khan 2.0]

Joan Collins appearing in generations wouldve been ridiculous

Why?
Was it terrible having Montalban in TWOK?

i see your point..

so long as they made her look more like Edith and not Alexis maybe it couldve worked..

wonder who else kirks woman couldve been instead of whatshername... Carol obviosly, Rand? Ruth? Deadly Years woman? Gillian?

 

[Stoo]

Why not do the easy and obvious and satisfying thing? One ship travels in time and meets the other? And they have to team up against some big bad?

Hard to do both crews justice when they're jostling for space with each other. A meeting of the captains was a wiser idea, even if the implementation could have come down to something better than a old-guy-punchup on a bridge.

 

[Khan 2.0]

i guess the writers/producers the crossover film were faced with the following options:

-the obvious timetravel enterprises/crews meet ( either the Ent A in the 24th century Yesterdays Ent style or the Ent D in the 23rd Century. The latter more likely to avoid a redo of YE and an altered TNG future which wouldn't have been good for a TNG introduction)

-a villain /mystery for the Ent A is unresolved and the Ent D have to deal with it 80 years later ( perhaps with kirk & spock somehow encountering Picard across time at the climax...but not necessarily meeting). I think the novel Federation did that around the same time as Generations

-the 2 captains meeting in a time bubble or holodeck

 

[Robert Comsol]

The 2 captains meeting in a time bubble or holodeck

Bill Shatner participating in a movie where his character has been reduced to a holodeck simulation?!?

GET A LIFE! (probable reaction from Mr. Shatner)

Bob

 

[F. King Daniel]

"These Are The Voyages" is definitely a crossover that is a million times worse. Imagine if they'd done it that way -

"Witness the epic meeting of Captain Jean-Luc Picard and a hologram programmed to resemble James T. Kirk!" *Inception bwuuuuh!*

 

[sonak]

Generations gets the crap that it does because of the underwhelming way in which Kirk was killed off.

 

[Bad Atom]

The 2 captains meeting in a time bubble or holodeck

Bill Shatner participating in a movie where his character has been reduced to a holodeck simulation?!?

GET A LIFE! (probable reaction from Mr. Shatner)

Bob

That was essentially the premise of the alternate "Generations" script that was written by Maurice Hurley. Picard went to the holodeck and consulted Kirk about whatever the threat in the film was.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

-the obvious timetravel enterprises/crews meet ( either the Ent A in the 24th century Yesterdays Ent style or the Ent D in the 23rd Century. The latter more likely to avoid a redo of YE and an altered TNG future which wouldn't have been good for a TNG introduction)

Berman said later that he wished he'd held "Yesterday's Enterprise" for the inevitable crossover film.

Braga and Moore's initial idea for the film was an Enterprise-A versus Enterprise-D film because they thought the poster of the two ships locked in battle would have been cool. But they couldn't come up with a story that left both crews looking like heroes. Someone was going to come out looking bad.

The problem with either approach is that Paramount wanted a movie on the cheap, and paying for the cast that an A-vs-D film would have required would not have achieved that goal.

-a villain /mystery for the Ent A is unresolved and the Ent D have to deal with it 80 years later ( perhaps with kirk & spock somehow encountering Picard across time at the climax...but not necessarily meeting). I think the novel Federation did that around the same time as Generations

Federation is pretty similar to that, yeah. It came out a month before the film, and it has epilogues that tie into the film.

DC Comics did a variant on that type of story the next year in Star Trek Annual #6 and Star Trek: The Next Generation Annual #6. The Devidians (from "Time's Arrow") forced the two crews to work together, and it was done in such a way that neither crew could see the other. I think the story was called "Convergence."

-the 2 captains meeting in a time bubble or holodeck

There was another script in development for the seventh film. Maurice Hurley's script had Picard consulting with a holodeck Kirk when the Federation was attacked by something from outside the universe (sort of like "The Tholian Web").

I've thought for a few years that "All Good Things..." could have been refashioned quite easily into a crossover film. Instead of the "Encounter at Farpoint" sections, Q sends Picard Quantum Leap-style back to the Enterprise-A after the end of Star Trek VI.

 

[Jonas Grumby]

If I were rewriting GEN, I think I'd be shooting for an ending where Kirk has been captured by the Duras sisters and is being held on their bridge and watching on their viewscreen while the Ent-D is about to be destroyed. We learn the Ent-D has only enough power for one last shot, not enough against the Klingon BOP's shields. Kirk suddenly leaps for the BOP's controls (bashing at least one Klingon in the face, of course, to get there) and hits the switch to drop the BOP's shields, sacrificing himself to save the Ent-D.

Data: "Commander, the BOP is dropping her shields!"
Wesley: "Why would they...?"
Riker (or Picard depending on where he is at this point in the new script): "Who gives a shit why! FIRE!!"

Riker (or Picard) destroys the BOP...and Kirk along with it. You can even give Riker (or Picard) a little "acting moment" either when they have to wrestle with firing on the BOP knowing Kirk is onboard, or (better, IMO) only finding out after the fact that Kirk was on the BOP and they have killed the legendary James T. Kirk.

Not great, but I still think it beats falling off a bridge.

 

[Khan 2.0]

why kill kirk anyway? In fact it would have been more of a shock twist if they hadn't killed kirk and instead had him go to the crashed Ent D with Picard. Or had him somehow return to the nexus.

 

[2takesfrakes]

Whilst William Shatner did not craft the screenplay, he did have a laundrylist of demands, regarding his appearance in GENERATIONS ...

 

[Commishsleer]

Whilst William Shatner did not craft the screenplay, he did have a laundrylist of demands, regarding his appearance in GENERATIONS ...

Maybe Shatner demanded that he die on the bridge.
And Berman and Braga had their revenge...

Look you can't say Shatner was responsible for all the idiocy that surrounded his role in GEN.
He was responsible for the idiocy in STV, so Berman should have been aware not to take suggestions from him unless he couldn't be bothered seeing it. But I think anyone who had anything to do with STV or even seeing it could have told him that.

 

[C.E. Evans]

For all the internet hate directed towards Star Trek V, it's the Trek the movie that has the most heart and really drives home the bonds between "the big three." And from a purely filmmaking perspective (cinematography, editing, etc.) it really isn't a bad film, but it isn't Trekkie-proof.

why kill kirk anyway? In fact it would have been more of a shock twist if they hadn't killed kirk and instead had him go to the crashed Ent D with Picard. Or had him somehow return to the nexus.

They killed off Kirk for the same reasons they just had to destroy the Enterprise-D--because they thought it was a kewl thing to do and to put the past firmly behind them.