Why Wasn't Neelix considered a candidate for removal after season 3?

[propita]

Re: Why Wasn't Neelix considered a candidate for removal after season

They really screwed over the Neelix character. He was jovial, hiding a lot of pain. He should’ve been interacted with a number of characters:

Janeway, as guide and morale officer

Chakotay, as they had something in common--both their worlds and families were destroyed by war, yet they chose very different paths from that, and both were given a second chance by Janeway, and then their spiritual beliefs (Neelix’s being destroyed when he “died)

Tuvok, as contrast, but that should have been the main humor, that Neelix could drive Tuvok to distraction

Bellana, as an example of overcoming tendencies (her belligerence, his act of...well, not sure if I’d call it cowardice in the war)


As in DS9, where not all characters interacted with every other character all the time, we could’ve had similar. I know, the studio didn’t want that. Funny that that’s how many shows with large ensembles have turned out since. Stupid studio. Stupid stupid studio.

 

[Lance]

Re: Why Wasn't Neelix considered a candidate for removal after season

Seska and Cullah did show up later than would make sense even with Voyager being delayed repeatedly. The Kazon were OK for the first episodes, but with the ship travelling as fast as possible through the sector it should have not had as many repealing villains IMO.

Regarding the general topic of the Kazon:

As I see it, the main problem wasn't so much the fact they keep meeting up with Kazon. The problem is the whole idea of 'Kazon Space' being defined as a specific area to be traversed, not unlike 'Romulan Space' and 'Klingon Space' (or indeed 'Borg Space').

A geographical area in which one particular culture dominates.

See, this is what devalues the Kazon as their own species and turns them into a 'Klingon-lite' threat.

The Kazon were conceived as a rag-tag lot. Not a single unified force, but a series of rival 'gangs'. I believe Michael Piller even made the overt comparison to Los Angeles gang culture.

Realistically, there *is* no such thing as 'Kazon Space'. Or at least there should never have been. As a species, there should have been pockets of individual Kazons that Voyager encountered as they progressed, but never the same group of Kazons.

They should have been encountering other 'gangs' who had arbitarily claimed their section of space. Pockets of Kazon dotted around unexpectedly. Different "patches" of communities with their own agendas and indeed their own unique tropes.

They sort of did this, but the writers kept forgetting. Piller kept writing memos saying "Remember that the Kazon are NOT Klingons!!! Rival gang culture!!!". But for whatever reason, he made no impact and the writers were tending to ignore him by then anyway.

What we got instead was a vaguely defined 'species' just like any other generic Planet-Of-Hats villain, and then return appearances of the same guy (Culluh) years after Voyager should have already left him long, long behind them.

And then a declaration in season three that somehow Voyager has now "left" something called 'Kazon Space'.

Gah.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Re: Why Wasn't Neelix considered a candidate for removal after season

If they were different gangs, then they should have had different colours, or fashion or even hair style.

The Ogla were in the pilot, and the one with Nog.

Cullah was in charge of the Nistrim and we saw him collect his rivals for a war council.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Re: Why Wasn't Neelix considered a candidate for removal after season

Seska and Cullah did show up later than would make sense even with Voyager being delayed repeatedly. The Kazon were OK for the first episodes, but with the ship travelling as fast as possible through the sector it should have not had as many repealing villains IMO.

Regarding the general topic of the Kazon:

As I see it, the main problem wasn't so much the fact they keep meeting up with Kazon. The problem is the whole idea of 'Kazon Space' being defined as a specific area to be traversed, not unlike 'Romulan Space' and 'Klingon Space' (or indeed 'Borg Space').

Conversely, conflicts should not have been exteriorized to the extent that they were. Seska was meant to represent a political philosophy opposed not only to Federation and the Maquis, but also an organization opposed to open dialogue. She could have remained on the ship, continually throwing wrenches in the works, without having her ferried along by Cullah or represented by the holodeck.

 

[Lance]

Re: Why Wasn't Neelix considered a candidate for removal after season

If they were different gangs, then they should have had different colours, or fashion or even hair style.

The Ogla were in the pilot, and the one with Nog.

Cullah was in charge of the Nistrim and we saw him collect his rivals for a war council.

Well exactly. They paid lip service to the idea a couple times, but ultimately bailed out and fell into a more comfortable zone of trying to depict them as a generic species.

Should have been more 'gangs'. Different gangs. And a much more obvious difference between each of them.

As it was, the differences between the Nistrim and the Ogla were about as stark as the differences between the House of Duras and the House of Martok. Fundamentally different philosophies, but basically identical on the surface.

 

[sonak]

Re: Why Wasn't Neelix considered a candidate for removal after season

Cullah recurring never made sense to me. Here goes Voyager, headed home at maximum warp, and then, here's Cullah again in his much... slower... ship?

The only way Voyager should have a recurring guest character was if they could actually move faster than Voyager somehow.

Agreed-also, the implication is that Culluh is spending significant amount of time doing nothing but chasing after Voyager, like he's Dr. Claw trying to get Inspector Gadget or something.

 

[USS Triumphant]

Re: Why Wasn't Neelix considered a candidate for removal after season

Agreed-also, the implication is that Culluh is spending significant amount of time doing nothing but chasing after Voyager, like he's Dr. Claw trying to get Inspector Gadget or something.

YES. I mean, Cullah is the leader of his people, and in a resource-scarce area of space, and given that they live on ships without (especially ships without replicators), wouldn't that mean that he would have relationships with their regular resource providers to maintain that they couldn't have afforded to risk for chasing Voyager?

 

[Guy Gardener]

Re: Why Wasn't Neelix considered a candidate for removal after season

Those ships are large enough to have several farms. And I mean meat farms, not just vegetable farms. Does any one believe that the Kazon eat vegetables?

 

[USS Triumphant]

Re: Why Wasn't Neelix considered a candidate for removal after season

Those ships are large enough to have several farms. And I mean meat farms, not just vegetable farms. Does any one believe that the Kazon eat vegetables?

I have it on good authority that they eat dirt clods.

 

[exodus]

Re: Why Wasn't Neelix considered a candidate for removal after season

Neelix was the only latex alien, how could they get rid of him? And besides, like Spock was in TOS, Nexlix is the outsider, commenting on whatever the story's about, from an outsider's point of view. But yes, he was an annoying, directionless, jealous boyfriend, always trying to find some busy work to do, to keep himself out from underfoot. So while he didn't have the right personality, he had the right look. And in Hollywood, that's all it takes to keep on the Gravey Train for a long ... long time.

This

This is not quite correct since the role of exploring humanity was actually given to the Docbor (and later 7). Neelix was more kind of a comic relief and only a secondary Spock-a-like.

Being the outside man looking in doesn't mean Neelix was exploring humanity. He was a Alien, that alone makes one an outsider looking in on a culture foreign too you.

 

[exodus]

Re: Why Wasn't Neelix considered a candidate for removal after season

Voyager kept being held up, though ... what with this race not liking it when other species violate their territory ... or nebula with Made-for-TV properties that they have to drive around. These little detours can really add up ...

And Cullah would have had most of the same obstacles, and after a certain point his less advanced sensors would have lost Voyager, I would think.

Voyager would be the only ship in that part of space with a completely unique warp signature. They'd be like a big beacon of light to any DQ ships sensors. Even less advance sensors would still find it.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Re: Why Wasn't Neelix considered a candidate for removal after season

Only if they're stupid enough not to mask their trail or periodically change their signature.

(The Voth used a sample of Voyagers warp plasma to track the ship, despite Kathy having a two year head start.)

Even Janeway must have noticed that everyone that they had met or will ever meet in that toilet end of the galaxy wanted to kill crew after sometime after the first month.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Re: Why Wasn't Neelix considered a candidate for removal after season

Unfortunately Janeway has been programmed by Starfleet to believe that humans are in this galaxy to spread the wonders of humanity which will be eagerly received by those that are worthy.

 

[USS Triumphant]

Re: Why Wasn't Neelix considered a candidate for removal after season

Unfortunately Janeway has been programmed by Starfleet to believe that humans are in this galaxy to spread the wonders of humanity which will be eagerly received by those that are worthy.

Of course. We will be greeted as liberators.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Re: Why Wasn't Neelix considered a candidate for removal after season

Liberators, benefactors, a species of over sharers.. ugh we're like youth group kids trying to get the shlubs to come along to this really great evening, there will be music and food!

 

[Guy Gardener]

Re: Why Wasn't Neelix considered a candidate for removal after season

Hey, don't knock the food, Christians really know how to put on a spread when they're proselytizing.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Re: Why Wasn't Neelix considered a candidate for removal after season

But then they greet you earnestly every time they run into you again for years..

 

[Guy Gardener]

Re: Why Wasn't Neelix considered a candidate for removal after season

I find the jandal wearing, scrunchy sporting, ignorant & naive walk in shadows of the righteous beliefs of 1950s purity segments of that cult to be a little alluring.

It's like time-fucking.

Using a time machine to sex up historical figures.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Re: Why Wasn't Neelix considered a candidate for removal after season

Yes well the unbuttoning and mussing of the brightly composed is a classic fantasy. Where I live most of the time travel involves the glorious newage 70's and if I wanted to sex these people up I would have to rid them of the stench of patchouli first.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Re: Why Wasn't Neelix considered a candidate for removal after season

Remember when Sheldon from the Big Bang Theory dressed up as Spock and went to a renaissance fair pretending that it was a distant uncharted M Class Planet that supported a humanoid civilization that was very similar to a primitive earth culture.

I had to Laugh when Martha Jones quipped with almost no coaxing that she once snogged Shakespeare.

Which is nothing compared to her boss...

Doctor Who: Time Bigamist.