Why Wasn't Neelix considered a candidate for removal after season 3?

[exodus]

Re: Why Wasn't Neelix considered a candidate for removal after season

Only if they're stupid enough not to mask their trail or periodically change their signature.

(The Voth used a sample of Voyagers warp plasma to track the ship, despite Kathy having a two year head start.)

Even Janeway must have noticed that everyone that they had met or will ever meet in that toilet end of the galaxy wanted to kill crew after sometime after the first month.

The Voth tracked them cause they left a trail of breadcrumbs.

Because they were always under attack, they often had to leave in a hurry leaving stuff behind. Think of a all the tech DQ folks could salvage from crashed Delta Flyer debris? Borg/Federation tech. How many creative and dangerous things can be further perverted from that? Candy! That should have been a better consequences ep rather than "Friendship One". A look back on how the tech left behind or Voyager's presence changed things in the DQ.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Re: Why Wasn't Neelix considered a candidate for removal after season

You mean like this...

CHAKOTAY: Trust isn't the issue. We're getting involved in a situation that's not our responsibility.
JANEWAY: Oh, I'd say we're at least partly to blame. That was Starfleet technology that killed those hunters.
CHAKOTAY: There's nothing inherently violent about holodeck technology. It's what the Hirogen did with it that got them killed.
JANEWAY: How many times have we shared replicators to help people feed and clothe themselves?
CHAKOTAY: Trading technology is part of our life in the Delta Quadrant.
TUVOK:: It has been necessary for our survival.
JANEWAY: Maybe we should have been a little more careful about what we traded and who we traded with. Replicators make weapons just as easily as they do food.
CHAKOTAY: We can't undo what's been done.
JANEWAY: Maybe not, but we can help shut these holograms down before anyone else gets hurt. Now, if there are no more objections I'd like to get underway.

 

[exodus]

Re: Why Wasn't Neelix considered a candidate for removal after season

You mean like this...

CHAKOTAY: Trust isn't the issue. We're getting involved in a situation that's not our responsibility.
JANEWAY: Oh, I'd say we're at least partly to blame. That was Starfleet technology that killed those hunters.
CHAKOTAY: There's nothing inherently violent about holodeck technology. It's what the Hirogen did with it that got them killed.
JANEWAY: How many times have we shared replicators to help people feed and clothe themselves?
CHAKOTAY: Trading technology is part of our life in the Delta Quadrant.
TUVOK:: It has been necessary for our survival.
JANEWAY: Maybe we should have been a little more careful about what we traded and who we traded with. Replicators make weapons just as easily as they do food.
CHAKOTAY: We can't undo what's been done.
JANEWAY: Maybe not, but we can help shut these holograms down before anyone else gets hurt. Now, if there are no more objections I'd like to get underway.

Yeah but I also mean jumping ahead a few decades and seeing it then.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Re: Why Wasn't Neelix considered a candidate for removal after season

What I see in a century or so further up the timeline, is "Voyager Tours".

A massive transwarp pleasure craft hotel that tracks the highlights of Janeway's mission home for the amusement of holiday goers and tourists.

But maybe Future's End showing how the crashed time Ship Aeon's misplaced tech screwed over established Trek history is closer to... But not close enough.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Re: Why Wasn't Neelix considered a candidate for removal after season

Was there a single good Neelix episode?

Every episode where he was the focus he was either obnoxiously jealous because Kes looked at some crewman the wrong way, annoying Tuvok, suicidally depressed because he had a near death experience that didn't live up to his expectations, or doing pointless B-plots with Naomi.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Re: Why Wasn't Neelix considered a candidate for removal after season

The Haunting of Deck 12. Neelix tries to make the children wet themselves with scary ghost stories.

Legacy. Neelix beats up Harry Kim to impress a Klingon lady, and then has sex with her.

Fair Trade. Dabbles in drug dealing.

Investigations. Starts a morning talk show. Sniffs out a Kazon Fifth columnist, and kills him.

...

Wow, they really did not give him much screen time after Seven took over.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Re: Why Wasn't Neelix considered a candidate for removal after season

It is true that 7's wonderfulness eclipsed the lesser, non-Janeway characters.

 

[Lance]

Re: Why Wasn't Neelix considered a candidate for removal after season

Investigations. Starts a morning talk show.

This is clearly the most heinous and utterly detestable of all Neelix's many crimes during his time aboard Voyager, and should by itself have been enough to justify the death penalty.

 

[Ensign_Redshirt]

Re: Why Wasn't Neelix considered a candidate for removal after season

Was there a single good Neelix episode?

"Jetrel"

 

[2takesfrakes]

Re: Why Wasn't Neelix considered a candidate for removal after season

It was Neelix - and not someone as guileless and vulnerable as Kes - who needed the Personality Overhaul.

 

[Sophronisba]

Re: Why Wasn't Neelix considered a candidate for removal after season

Was there a single good Neelix episode?

Mortal Coil.

 

[Captain Kathryn]

Re: Why Wasn't Neelix considered a candidate for removal after season

Was there a single good Neelix episode?

Every episode where he was the focus he was either obnoxiously jealous because Kes looked at some crewman the wrong way, annoying Tuvok, suicidally depressed because he had a near death experience that didn't live up to his expectations, or doing pointless B-plots with Naomi.

Hmm...

I like "Investigations" but only if I watch the entire arc of the Tom Paris takeover/Jonas deception in a mini marathon bout.

I thought "Mortal Coil" was pretty good. So was "Jetrel".

 

[exodus]

Re: Why Wasn't Neelix considered a candidate for removal after season

It was Neelix - and not someone as guileless and vulnerable as Kes - who needed the Personality Overhaul.

I don't know.
I think I'd rather have a friend like Neelix, who was loyal and loved unconditionally than a friend like Tuvok who'd throw me under the bus if he felt it was logical.

 

[Robbiesan]

Re: Why Wasn't Neelix considered a candidate for removal after season

Jennifer Lien got robbed. She'd already proven herself in American History X (1998) before being a part of Voyager. She had a lot of potential. She never should have been let go just to be replaced by another pretty face.

Jeri Ryan demonstrated a full range of emotions besides being attractive AND having comedic talent. She was a welcome addition to the franchise.

I never understood why Neelix was needed. It wasn't that he wasn't a good actor, it was there wasn't good character development and purpose.

All in all, it was a puzzling episode in Star Trek history, and I doubt we ever know what really happened. My guess is that there were some personal issues but I don't have evidence of that. Obviously it had a major effect on a young actress' life and later on her health, and was rotten all around.

EDIT: Correction, Ms. Lien was first cast in 1993. American History X came midway through her Voyager appearances, with them concluding in 2000.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Re: Why Wasn't Neelix considered a candidate for removal after season

She was replacing Wang.

Is this the pretty face you speak of?

 

[exodus]

Re: Why Wasn't Neelix considered a candidate for removal after season

All in all, it was a puzzling episode in Star Trek history, and I doubt we ever know what really happened. My guess is that there were some personal issues but I don't have evidence of that. Obviously it had a major effect on a young actress' life and later on her health, and was rotten all around.

If that's what happened to her after loosing just one role on TV, it's a good thing she wasn't let go from a bigger more popular production. She might have replaced Lindsey Lohan in the tabloids.

However the truth is, Ethan Philips has been around longer and has more in road connects behinds the scenes in the industry. He's also a playwright and author with connections to other writers and actors.
So he was far more important to keep around than Lien, who had nearly no extensive resume, skills or connections.

 

[Robbiesan]

Re: Why Wasn't Neelix considered a candidate for removal after season

If that's what happened to her after loosing just one role on TV, it's a good thing she wasn't let go from a bigger more popular production. She might have replaced Lindsey Lohan in the tabloids.

However the truth is, Ethan Philips has been around longer and has more in road connects behinds the scenes in the industry. He's also a playwright and author with connections to other writers and actors.
So he was far more important to keep around than Lien, who had nearly no extensive resume, skills or connections.

That was harsh. Ms Lien did have health problems after being cut from the show. That's a matter of record. She ended up doing voice work as a result of that.

It's a cruel business, and acting in a science fiction production can be limiting and make an actor type-cast. Several Star Trek actors ended up becoming directors, a process facilitated by other Star Trek shows in the pipeline.

For whatever reason, one actor was let go, and one let in, which is very odd. It's as if they felt that someone wasn't adding chemistry to the show. That can't be Lien. As I recall she had plenty of fans when the announcement was made. Her character was certainly interesting and somewhat doomed based upon her species abbreviated lifespan.

Probably many were distracted by Jeri Ryan who did make the show excellent. I'm not sure that Lien leaving had anything to do with that.

What specifically did Neelix add? It's not that he couldn't have added a dynamic, he just didn't add one.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Re: Why Wasn't Neelix considered a candidate for removal after season

Robbie, Exodus has had this conversation, without exaggeration, at least 400 times.

He's run out of nice things to say.

 

[Captain Kathryn]

Re: Why Wasn't Neelix considered a candidate for removal after season

I want to say firstly, I would have preferred if no one got fired from the show.

However, (and it's just my own opinion here and I'm not telling anyone how to think), but it's just my own personal opinion that Ethan Phillips was the better actor of the two (Lien / Phillips). I am not saying the Neelix character was better or worse than Kes. But just going by acting ability, I prefer Phillips over Lien.

Granted, Neelix's character wasn't the greatest. But don't forget Ethan Phillips has played several characters on other Trek series (TNG/ENT) as a guest star and is pretty versatile and seems to enjoy the Star Trek universe and its fanbase (he's appeared in ST:OGAM and will be in Renegades. Not the best stuff, but it shows he appreciates the franchise and the genre). I think he could have done more with Neelix if given the opportunity. As for Jennifer Lien, I just don't regard her acting ability in the same way. So, for me, I can understand letting Lien go and not Ethan Phillips just on that basis alone. If they needed Phillips to take Neelix further, he probably could have.

I just think Ethan Phillips is a more versatile actor. He still acts to this day. If you look at Lien's filmography it pretty much stops in 2003 (if that is because of health reasons, then it is a moot point and I apologize).

That said, I still don't think anyone should have been fired. I understand the reason why it was done, but I wish it wasn't so. I don't think letting Lien go made the show better. I do think that adding Jeri Ryan/Seven of Nine DID make the show better. But, ignoring the show's money issues, they did not need to eliminate someone to have the same effect.

 

[exodus]

Re: Why Wasn't Neelix considered a candidate for removal after season

That was harsh. Ms Lien did have health problems after being cut from the show. That's a matter of record. She ended up doing voice work as a result of that.

It's annoying when fans try and paint her as this weak person that would fall apart at the loss of one single job. Jen Lien was still acting up until 2000, 3 or 4 years after she left Voyager. She was doing voice over work during her 3rd year on Voyager and in her own words she left acting because she simply wanted a new career.

Robbie, Exodus has had this conversation, without exaggeration, at least 400 times.

He's run out of nice things to say.

Pretty much.