Vash
- Thread starter Komack
- Start date
It could be any number of things. There's always the episodic nature of TNG, while there were any number of mini-arcs there was no overall direction for the series, so they often just did whatever struck the writers and producers fancy that week.
There's also the fact that... well let's face it the episodes Vash does appear in, Captain's Holiday, Qpid and Q-less are all well.... subpar. Nothing against the character, she was a welcome change from the stodgy perfect humans of TNG. Perhaps enough of a change that it limited the character's appearences.
Then there's just the fact that... well let's face it, Picard and Vash were hardly an ideal match. I could see them dating now and again, but... heck Qpid hit on it... Picard respects the law and Vash doesn't. He's uptight and she's a loose canon. Beyond their common interest in archeology, and some attraction there's little more common ground.
There's also the fact that... well let's face it the episodes Vash does appear in, Captain's Holiday, Qpid and Q-less are all well.... subpar. Nothing against the character, she was a welcome change from the stodgy perfect humans of TNG. Perhaps enough of a change that it limited the character's appearences.
Then there's just the fact that... well let's face it, Picard and Vash were hardly an ideal match. I could see them dating now and again, but... heck Qpid hit on it... Picard respects the law and Vash doesn't. He's uptight and she's a loose canon. Beyond their common interest in archeology, and some attraction there's little more common ground.
The character of Vash was designed by writer Ira Steven Behr who created her for the series specifically to be the perfect woman for Picard after Patrick Stewart's request for more "sex and shooting." Around the fourth season, Michael Piller, the show's associate executive producer, inquired about marrying Picard to Vash to provide some new story dynamics. The studio executives killed the idea of marrying off the captain. The shipboard marriage idea survived in the fourth season episode "Data's Day" where Miles O'Brien married Keiko Ishikawa. Like Picard, Vash is an explorer with an expertise in archaeology. She is an adventurer, a female Indiana Jones. In the episodes where she appears, this beautiful brunette, with her beguiling smile and blue eyes, manages to charm not only the good captain of the Enterprise but the omnipotent Q as well. Vash is Bacall to Picard's Bogart. Watch Bogart and Bacall in the classic movie "To Have and Have Not" and then watch "Captain's Holiday." In December of 1998, Patrick Stewart was quoted in the Calgary Sun as saying "I personally like to think Picard and Vash had a very active sex life. I can't believe Picard just read Shakespeare up there in his room all those years."
In my opinion the Vash character is a gold mine of untapped potential.
Edited to add: About 'Qpid' Q proved in the episode:
Q "This human emotion, love, it's a dangerous thing, Picard and obviously you're ill-equipped to handle it. She's found vulnerability in you, a vulnerability I've been looking for for years. If I'd known sooner, I would have appeared as a female. Mark my words, Picard, this is your Achilles heel . . . You deny that you care for this woman? Believe me I'd be doing you a big favor if I turned her into a Klabnian eel . . . I was just trying to help . . . You would have me stand idly by as she led you to your destruction?" To which Picard answers an emphatic Yes!
Picard
"I'm surprised he wasn't too busy gloating over his victory."
Vash
"He was right about one thing, Jean-Luc. As ridiculous as it was, his game did prove you still care."
Picard slides closer to Vash on the couch gazing into her eyes while tenderly stroking her cheek. "I may not share my feelings with my crew, but I do have them."
Actually there is canon that supports the notion that archaeologists behave the way Vash does. In canon, before meeting Picard on Risa she spent five years working as a personal assistant to Professor Samuel Estragon, an archaeologist who's work Picard knew. It was Professor Samuel Estragon who hired the Ferengi Sovak to aid in his explorations, especially in situations that weren't quite ethical. Moreover, Picard isn't surprised at all and is amused by the idea. (3rd season episode Captain Holiday.)
Also in the 6th season episode "The Chase," Picard's own mentor Professor Galen comes aboard the Enterprise wanting Picard for a bit of muscle and even trying to bribe him with a priceless, rare archaeological artifact.
GALEN
"... I'm sorry, Mister Picard. But that information has a price --your agreement to join me on the final leg of this expedition."
PICARD
"For how long?"
GALEN
"Three months. Perhaps a year. If we had a starship and complete diplomatic access -- a matter of weeks. But we'll have only my shuttle, the transports we can arrange, and our combined talents."
PICARD
"Why can't you do this without me?"
GALEN
"I'm not a young man. There will be hazards along the way. I don't want my own inadequacies to jeopardize the completion of this work."
In this episode Professor Galen is operating exactly the way we were told that Professor Samuel Estragon did and the way Vash did. Therefore, it is a believable extrapolation from series canon that fieldwork in interstellar archaeology can be a somewhat rough and tumble, wild wild west like business.
Warmest Wishes,
Whoa Nellie
In my opinion the Vash character is a gold mine of untapped potential.
Edited to add: About 'Qpid' Q proved in the episode:
Q "This human emotion, love, it's a dangerous thing, Picard and obviously you're ill-equipped to handle it. She's found vulnerability in you, a vulnerability I've been looking for for years. If I'd known sooner, I would have appeared as a female. Mark my words, Picard, this is your Achilles heel . . . You deny that you care for this woman? Believe me I'd be doing you a big favor if I turned her into a Klabnian eel . . . I was just trying to help . . . You would have me stand idly by as she led you to your destruction?" To which Picard answers an emphatic Yes!
Picard
"I'm surprised he wasn't too busy gloating over his victory."
Vash
"He was right about one thing, Jean-Luc. As ridiculous as it was, his game did prove you still care."
Picard slides closer to Vash on the couch gazing into her eyes while tenderly stroking her cheek. "I may not share my feelings with my crew, but I do have them."
Actually there is canon that supports the notion that archaeologists behave the way Vash does. In canon, before meeting Picard on Risa she spent five years working as a personal assistant to Professor Samuel Estragon, an archaeologist who's work Picard knew. It was Professor Samuel Estragon who hired the Ferengi Sovak to aid in his explorations, especially in situations that weren't quite ethical. Moreover, Picard isn't surprised at all and is amused by the idea. (3rd season episode Captain Holiday.)
Also in the 6th season episode "The Chase," Picard's own mentor Professor Galen comes aboard the Enterprise wanting Picard for a bit of muscle and even trying to bribe him with a priceless, rare archaeological artifact.
GALEN
"... I'm sorry, Mister Picard. But that information has a price --your agreement to join me on the final leg of this expedition."
PICARD
"For how long?"
GALEN
"Three months. Perhaps a year. If we had a starship and complete diplomatic access -- a matter of weeks. But we'll have only my shuttle, the transports we can arrange, and our combined talents."
PICARD
"Why can't you do this without me?"
GALEN
"I'm not a young man. There will be hazards along the way. I don't want my own inadequacies to jeopardize the completion of this work."
In this episode Professor Galen is operating exactly the way we were told that Professor Samuel Estragon did and the way Vash did. Therefore, it is a believable extrapolation from series canon that fieldwork in interstellar archaeology can be a somewhat rough and tumble, wild wild west like business.
Warmest Wishes,
Whoa Nellie
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At the time, Jennifer Hetrick had a reoccurring role on LA Law.
Warmest Wishes,
Whoa Nellie
Warmest Wishes,
Whoa Nellie
Some actors remain active on the stage, preferring it to film and television. It just doesn't pay as much and unless you're in the IMDB or IBDB, the list of credits isn't going to show up anywhere without some heavier research.
I'd always heard that the marriage in "Data's Day" was originally supposed to be Picard's, but I never realized that they were thinking of marrying him to Vash....That could have been interesting.
If they could get her for DS9 while TNG was still on the air, there's no reason they couldn't have brought her back to TNG.
I disagree strongly with that, I think Captain's Holiday is a very good episode and QPid is par for a good season.
Picard and Vash may not have matching personalities but to me they make perfect sense for a romantic pairing. They strike me as two people who would be attracted to each other. The only problem is, as you said, Vash's disregard for law. And I doubt Vash would be happy living on a starship. I could definitely see them meeting up some time in the future and having some more flings, though.
Oh I think Vash and Picard had good chemistry. Just that the Measure of a Man woman was a good match as well, and she was already in Starfleet. Vash episodes are great imo.
Honestly I think the only reason Vash wasn't back is because they didn't want to change up Picard. So they kept him single in order to not change up the dynamic. Just part of the episodic nature of the show.
I find it really hard to believe that Picard couldn't find a spouse/kids if he wanted. Even if he had virtually no time, I find it hard to believe that none of his potential wives would wait around for someone as prestigious as Picard. It kind of bugs me that the only time he isn't a single guy is in one-off episodes. His strong desire to continue the Picard name makes it even more unbelievable to me.
I also kinda don't buy him eventually ending up with Crusher, if he waited 6+ years to make a move.
Honestly I think the only reason Vash wasn't back is because they didn't want to change up Picard. So they kept him single in order to not change up the dynamic. Just part of the episodic nature of the show.
I find it really hard to believe that Picard couldn't find a spouse/kids if he wanted. Even if he had virtually no time, I find it hard to believe that none of his potential wives would wait around for someone as prestigious as Picard. It kind of bugs me that the only time he isn't a single guy is in one-off episodes. His strong desire to continue the Picard name makes it even more unbelievable to me.
I also kinda don't buy him eventually ending up with Crusher, if he waited 6+ years to make a move.
In regards to on-screen chemistry, I felt it sizzled between Picard and Vash. In the opening teaser of TNG's 4th season episode Qpid, Picard finds Vash waiting for him in his quarters. She saunters across the room toward him. The sexual heat in their eyes is palpable. She tenderly strokes his face bringing him in for a soft kiss. She plucks the horga'hn from his grasp dropping it onto the chair and replacing it with herself. Their lips meet again in a deeply impassioned kiss.
Patrick Stewart dated Jennifer Hetrick (Vash) during the 3rd and 4th seasons of TNG. There are references online to the two of them even being engaged during the filming of the 4th season episode "Qpid."
Just saying.
Warmest Wishes,
Whoa Nellie
Patrick Stewart dated Jennifer Hetrick (Vash) during the 3rd and 4th seasons of TNG. There are references online to the two of them even being engaged during the filming of the 4th season episode "Qpid."
Just saying.
Warmest Wishes,
Whoa Nellie
There's no evidence, though, he ever worried about the Picard name not continuing before his brother and nephew died in "Generations."
Is the Disney Star Wars character Aphra, just Vash repurposed* into the SW universe?
Both female Indiana Jones/Belloq in space types, somewhat unscrupulous profiteer yet sympathetic archeologist adventurer, traveling through the galaxy in pursuit of adventure and artifacts with unethical zeal for profit, willing to ally with the main antagonist, so long as it will get her somewhere.
What do you think,
Aphra has her own comic series, did Vash ever have one, or novels focusing on her?
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She does appear in a DS9 episode, dating Q. Or trying to break up with him.
In any case, I'm a little surprised that she never showed up in "the Lower Decks," especially in that episode where Mariner teamed up with a space archeologist. (Unless I'm misremembering.) "Prodigy" could probably do something with the character, if it ever gets a third season.
In any case, I'm a little surprised that she never showed up in "the Lower Decks," especially in that episode where Mariner teamed up with a space archeologist. (Unless I'm misremembering.) "Prodigy" could probably do something with the character, if it ever gets a third season.
I wonder if it's short for Vashti (which is the Persian queen that Esther took the place of).
She was an interesting character, but IMO she didn't need to be in any more episodes than she was in. She was a minor character and I can't see any bigger a role for her making too much sense, honestly.
