Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1st

[Manticore]

Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

Anyone claiming a country the size of the US "can't" do universal healthcare is simply wrong. It's not a question of lacking resources.

Of course the US can do it. It will just ruin the economy and provide terrible government run healthcare that will be worse for most citizens that pay for health insurance now.


There is a huge difference in looking at healthcare for 300,000,000 vs 30,000,000.

And of course you skip over how India has universal healthcare for a population of 1.2 billion.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

Anyone claiming a country the size of the US "can't" do universal healthcare is simply wrong. It's not a question of lacking resources.

Of course the US can do it. It will just ruin the economy and provide terrible government run healthcare that will be worse for most citizens that pay for health insurance now.


There is a huge difference in looking at healthcare for 300,000,000 vs 30,000,000.

Post proof or retract.

 

[IndyJones]

Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

Unless I'm totally mistaken, Obamacare is not replacing Medicare/Medicaid.

Currently Medicare/Medicaid and SS make up over 1/3 of total US expenditures.

And we all see how well those are run, correct? So now we think Obamacare is going to be efficiently run government health program? Give me a break.

Medicare is widely understood and acknowledged to be run with a lower overhead than most private insurers, and the absence of a profit motive is an added benefit.

Whatever point you were trying to make by bringing it up, you may want to try again...

BTW, does the 1939 in your username refer to when you were born? Are you enrolled in Medicare?

 

[sidious618]

Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

The opposition to the ACA is something that will be laughed about in 10 years time. It's not going anywhere other than being broadened in the future, likely to something similar to a public option.

 

[Awesome Possum]

Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

It will drastically reduce the quality of healthcare in the US. It will be a huge hindrance on this country's economy. Slowly the US is not becoming the best place to work and live for the brightest and most motivated of humankind.

The US already spends the biggest share of GDP on health-care but lags behind most wealthy industrialized nations in life expectancy, infant mortality and health outcomes. That's the system you apparently want to keep.


So, you don't understand how most Americans get, and will continue to get, health care.

When I read posts here, I always walk away laughing at how dumb people can be and how little people realize how the world works.

I know how multi-quote works.

Unless I'm totally mistaken, Obamacare is not replacing Medicare/Medicaid.

Currently Medicare/Medicaid and SS make up over 1/3 of total US expenditures.

And we all see how well those are run, correct? So now we think Obamacare is going to be efficiently run government health program? Give me a break.

Unless I'm mistaken, "Obamacare" isn't a government healthcare system. It's a series of laws that affect private companies. These laws require that the companies allow anyone to enroll and that the companies can't drop them if they get sick, which they used to do. They also can no longer deny coverage, which they used to do.

Maybe you should understand what the issue is or at least see a source of information that isn't some rightwing rag.

 

[Haggis and tatties]

Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

So is this health care thing going to be similar to what we have in the UK, everybody gets access to healthcare regardless of work, income or ability to pay?

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

Hopefully this horrible horrible policy will be blocked and eventually stopped from every happening. Absolute terrible entitlement that will have a significant role in crippling this country.

Make no mistake, this will help lead towards a worse future for Americans and humankind.

And millions being denied coverage isn't heading towards the worst possible future?

How about situations where health insurers retroactively cancel an insurance policy after the surgery has taken place leaving the patient out of pocket (As one poster on this board can attest).

Maybe you should do some reading before you post again becasue there are millions in Canada, the U.K, Australia, Scandinavia etc etc who have universal health coverage and guess what - we're not suffering for it and we have a lot better health than many many many Americans.

You cannot compare smaller populations and economies to the 300,000,000 living in US.

I realize this board is extremely liberal, but this idea of entitlements and everyone should have equal healthcare is a poor model for US economy.

It will drastically reduce the quality of healthcare in the US. It will be a huge hindrance on this country's economy. Slowly the US is not becoming the best place to work and live for the brightest and most motivated of humankind.

Once the US goes down, it's bad for the planet, and it's bad for humankind.

It's gonna cripple the US, but hey, at least yall get your terrible bottom of the barrel government provided healthcare.

Hopefully this horrible horrible policy will be blocked and eventually stopped from every happening. Absolute terrible entitlement that will have a significant role in crippling this country.

Make no mistake, this will help lead towards a worse future for Americans and humankind.

Remember, kids, when you need it, "you earned it."
When someone else needs it, it's "entitlement."

Goddamn sick kids and their need to live. You're right, Alex, those poor kids who died from easily preventable illnesses were spoiled rotten, thinking they had the right to proper healthcare in one of the richest nations in the world.

Don't worry. When your kind is done with the US it will be a shithole and 3rd world country. Then we can all be sick, poor, and jobless together.

But hey, then we'll all be equals right!

You guys are so funny. Also, if you are gonna write such silly things, please drop the iguana avatar. It's embarrassing.

I am keeping the avatar.

But I know what you mean. When I read posts here, I always walk away laughing at how dumb people can be and how little people realize how the world works. It really is comical. We should all have free healthcare and free houses and free food!

When it all goes to shit, look at those that are jealous of what others have accomplished and earned. You and they are to blame.

It will drastically reduce the quality of healthcare in the US. It will be a huge hindrance on this country's economy. Slowly the US is not becoming the best place to work and live for the brightest and most motivated of humankind.

The US already spends the biggest share of GDP on health-care but lags behind most wealthy industrialized nations in life expectancy, infant mortality and health outcomes. That's the system you apparently want to keep.

So, you don't understand how most Americans get, and will continue to get, health care.

When I read posts here, I always walk away laughing at how dumb people can be and how little people realize how the world works.

I know how multi-quote works.

Unless I'm totally mistaken, Obamacare is not replacing Medicare/Medicaid.

Currently Medicare/Medicaid and SS make up over 1/3 of total US expenditures.

And we all see how well those are run, correct? So now we think Obamacare is going to be efficiently run government health program? Give me a break.

Anyone claiming a country the size of the US "can't" do universal healthcare is simply wrong. It's not a question of lacking resources.

Of course the US can do it. It will just ruin the economy and provide terrible government run healthcare that will be worse for most citizens that pay for health insurance now.


There is a huge difference in looking at healthcare for 300,000,000 vs 30,000,000.

Click "Multi-Quote" on the posts you wish to respond to and then hit "Reply" down at the bottom so they'll all be compiled in one post instead of a bunch of separate posts.

 

[IndyJones]

Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

So is this health care thing going to be similar to what we have in the UK, everybody gets access to healthcare regardless of work, income or ability to pay?

No.

Which makes the Sky Is Falling rhetoric even more ridiculous.

 

[Awesome Possum]

Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

So is this health care thing going to be similar to what we have in the UK, everybody gets access to healthcare regardless of work, income or ability to pay?

No, we still have to pay the insurance companies. They just can't kick us off anymore. The insurance companies used to be able to kick people off for really any reason they wanted, usually because we required them. They like to take in money, but hate spending it. The people against the ACA are defending their desire to be money vampires.

 

[Alex1939]

Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

Anyone claiming a country the size of the US "can't" do universal healthcare is simply wrong. It's not a question of lacking resources.

Of course the US can do it. It will just ruin the economy and provide terrible government run healthcare that will be worse for most citizens that pay for health insurance now.


There is a huge difference in looking at healthcare for 300,000,000 vs 30,000,000.

And of course you skip over how India has universal healthcare for a population of 1.2 billion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_India

"The lack of extensive and adequately funded public health services pushes large numbers of people to incur heavy out of pocket expenditures on services purchased from the private sector. Out of pocket expenditures arise even in public sector hospitals, since lack of medicines means that patients have to buy them. This results in a very high financial burden on families in case of severe illness.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_India#cite_note-12

The quality of Indian healthcare is varied. In major urban areas, healthcare is of adequate quality, approaching and occasionally meeting Western standards. However, access to quality medical care is limited or unavailable in most rural areas"


What a model healthcare system! I'm sure everything will work out great!

 

[RoJoHen]

Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

So how do these fines work? I admit I haven't been paying too much attention to Obamacare because I already have a personal health insurance plan. Do I need to do anything to avoid being fined? Where will these fines come into play?

 

[Trekker4747]

Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

So how do these fines work? I admit I haven't been paying too much attention to Obamacare because I already have a personal health insurance plan. Do I need to do anything to avoid being fined? Where will these fines come into play?

You need to do nothing, you have health insurance.

 

[RoJoHen]

Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

So how do these fines work? I admit I haven't been paying too much attention to Obamacare because I already have a personal health insurance plan. Do I need to do anything to avoid being fined? Where will these fines come into play?

You need to do nothing, you have health insurance.

Good.

I guess I was just more curious about how it's going to work for all the people that don't.

 

[Alex1939]

Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

http://www.businessinsider.com/will-obamacare-destroy-jobs-2013-8

"When it comes into effect in January 2015, Obamacare will require firms with 50 or more full-time employees to offer them affordable health insurance or pay a fine of $2,000-3,000 per worker. That alarms firms that do not already offer coverage. But for many, there is a way round the law."


Welcome to your new PART time job.


http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/dail...ex-healthcare-system-made-even-163335504.html


We asked Kingsdale, now a director of Wakely Consulting Group, a health care consulting company, if Obamacare was the most efficient way to provide affordable health care to more people.
John Kingsdale, who helped create and run Mitt Romney's heath care reform program in Massachusetts and has consulted with the Obama White House, says, "“Absolutely not,” he tells us. “We’ve taken the most complex financing system for healthcare in the world and made it even more complex.”


http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/294870/doctors-patients-and-future-obamacare-marc-siegel

"This is because our health-care system is broken, with a bias toward rewarding high tech but not hard work. And instead of addressing the essential problems that many doctors face (too many patients, too many restrictions, diminishing reimbursements, increasing expenses, the ever-present threat of malpractice litigation), Obamacare just extends these problems to more patients."


I know a nurse that complains all the time about ridiculous regulations. Where she has to run an X-ray even though she knows it is completed unnecessary because it is either government (in medicare/medicaid) mandated or mandated by the insurance company. Same thing with prescription drugs. Where she wants to assign a certain drug that has less side effects that could effect this person, but the insurance company mandates that she assigns another one where she know the particular patient will probably not respond well to that particular drug.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ng-list.html?ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490

From Singapore to UK for cervical cancer treatment...

"But, on arriving home, the 34-year-old was horrified to be told by her doctor that the health service was in a ‘shambles’, she would ‘probably die on the waiting list’ – and would be better off going back to Singapore to get treatment there."

​

Welcome to government run healthcare. Or sorry, government forcing people to buy from insurers that will make this a nightmare for everybody. Oh yeah, I forget "evil insurance" companies because anyone in business is evil, isn't that correct ultra-liberal TrekBBS that doesn't know the first thing about how economies or government works??


Don't worry, sleep peacefully, Obama and the government will take care of you. Keep dreaming your thoughts of those evil capitalist and workers in society who deserve to be screwed over so your lazy ass can get some third-rate medicine that will leave you crapping blood.

​

 

[Manticore]

Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

India is also a second world country. I'm sure that the US, the richest country in the world, could easily do a much better job with a significantly smaller population. Here's a better example: Brazil: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_in_Brazil. Population 200 million, again, somewhat poorer than the US, but definitely not a terrible system.

With our current system, we are paying more than just about any other developed country for less. We are forcing our doctor's offices to hire personnel just to navigate the bureaucracy of numerous different companies - thus increasing our costs. We are paying for people who aren't covered, and thus go for emergency rather than preventative care, which is more expensive and they can't pay for it anyway.

Just about anything is an improvement over our system.

 

[IndyJones]

Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

http://www.businessinsider.com/will-obamacare-destroy-jobs-2013-8

"When it comes into effect in January 2015, Obamacare will require firms with 50 or more full-time employees to offer them affordable health insurance or pay a fine of $2,000-3,000 per worker. That alarms firms that do not already offer coverage. But for many, there is a way round the law."


Welcome to your new PART time job.

Ummm, yeah.

Do you know how many employers have more than 50 employees and don't already provide insurance coverage?

WaPo

Part of the reason is that the mandate, as written, affects relatively few employers. “You’ve got 5.7 million firms in the U.S.,” says Wharton’s Mark Duggan, who served as the top health economist at White House’s Council of Economic Advisers from 2009 to 2010. “Only 210,000 have more than 50 employees. So 96 percent of firms aren’t affected. Then if you look among those firms with 50 or more employees, something on the order of 95 percent offer health insurance. So it’s basically 10,000 or so employers who have more than 50 employees and don’t offer coverage.” Those companies probably employ around one percent of American workers.

One percent of the workforce. And some of them will have coverage through their parents or spouse, others will work for employers who support the President, and still others who will support helping their employees. So, significantly less than one percent of the workforce.

You knew that though, right?

 

[Tora Ziyal]

Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

The quality of Indian healthcare is varied.

The same is true of U.S. health care.

We're great -- arguably the best in the world -- at research and development of new procedures and medications. For complex and/or rare medical conditions, there's no place better to go than the top handful of U.S. research/teaching hospitals.

But we've been terrible at ensuring that everyone has access to basic medical care. And, yes, health care is a human right, per international law.

The U.N. Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which the U.S. has signed, says, "Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control."

So how do these fines work? I admit I haven't been paying too much attention to Obamacare because I already have a personal health insurance plan. Do I need to do anything to avoid being fined? Where will these fines come into play?

The fine is for people who don't have health insurance. Since you already have it, it won't affect you, unless you've gotten a letter from your insurance company saying that their policies have changed and you have to pick a new one, or something like that.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

snip

snip

Alex, what part of use multi-quote are you not understanding? You posted two posts in short order with the second one not being a reply to anyone in particular, just more of you ranting and insulting people (the latter of which you need to cut out too). If you do it again you'll receive an infraction.

 

[J.T.B.]

Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

Don't worry, sleep peacefully, Obama and the government will take care of you. Keep dreaming your thoughts of those evil capitalist and workers in society who deserve to be screwed over so your lazy ass can get some third-rate medicine that will leave you crapping blood.

Are you having a separate discussion in your imagination? Because the above statement certainly doesn't fit me, nobody else in this thread has said anything like that, and you do not know enough about them, or me, to make that characterization.

 

[RoJoHen]

Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

So how do these fines work? I admit I haven't been paying too much attention to Obamacare because I already have a personal health insurance plan. Do I need to do anything to avoid being fined? Where will these fines come into play?

The fine is for people who don't have health insurance. Since you already have it, it won't affect you, unless you've gotten a letter from your insurance company saying that their policies have changed and you have to pick a new one, or something like that.

And how does the fine work? The problem I see with this system is that we're still going to have a ton of uninsured people. Most people I know do not have health insurance. Obamacare is not going to suddenly make them go out and sign up. It's still something they'll have to pay for, no matter how "affordable" it might claim to be. These are people that struggle to pay their rent every month; health insurance is a luxury item that they simply can't afford.

So now they're going to be slapped with a fine, which most of them won't pay either (unless it gets deducted from their income taxes or something). I'm just curious to see how all of this is going to work.