The events in these movies occurred before those of The Original Series TV show, yet the transporter technology far outmatched that of any series.
Transporters too Good
- Thread starter Nine of Four
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Re: Transporters to Good
Outmatches the standard tech seen in pretty much every episode, true, but the transwarp transporter in these movies is presented as experimental tech and thus not without a certain amount of imprecision (i.e., it's riskier to use than standard tech.) Further, examples have been pointed out in previous threads on this topic of more or less comparable transporter tech being used in one or more TV series.The events in these movies occurred before those of The Original Series TV show, yet the transporter technology far outmatched that of any series.
Re: Transporters to Good
Best scene in the movie, when Scotty is stuck in those tubes!!!
Best scene in the movie, when Scotty is stuck in those tubes!!!
Re: Transporters to Good
You mean the transwarp beaming equation which Old Spock showed Scotty in the first movie, and was later used by Khan to beam from Earth to Kronos? It's from the future, that's why. Old Spock comes from 7 years after Star Trek Nemesis.The events in these movies occurred before those of The Original Series TV show, yet the transporter technology far outmatched that of any series.
Re: Transporters to Good
If anything, the standard late 2250s transporters appear more primitive than the ones Kirk used in TOS a decade later. They have trouble locking onto falling people, they feature manual (joystick) targeting as a prominent option, and the transporter room appears to feature "radiation shielding". But the difference to TOS probably isn't all that great, and "shielding" for the transporter operator reappears in the TOS movies. (Or is that just a splatter screen that keeps the operator clean in all situations, including those where the structural integrity of the transportee is compromised?)
Timo Saloniemi
If anything, the standard late 2250s transporters appear more primitive than the ones Kirk used in TOS a decade later. They have trouble locking onto falling people, they feature manual (joystick) targeting as a prominent option, and the transporter room appears to feature "radiation shielding". But the difference to TOS probably isn't all that great, and "shielding" for the transporter operator reappears in the TOS movies. (Or is that just a splatter screen that keeps the operator clean in all situations, including those where the structural integrity of the transportee is compromised?)
Timo Saloniemi
Re: Transporters to Good
Poor Sonak.
Poor Sonak.
Re: Transporters to Good
Just assume the Transwarp beaming thing is a 24c technology.
The way I figure it is this: Scotty comes up with the idea (in primeverse) around the same time he does in nuVerse, but doesn't have the tools or know-how to really make it work. And it becomes one of those projects people tinker on throughout their careers. He uses Spock to bounce ideas off from time to time since he's the one mostly likely to have some insight. He eventually brings it with him on the Jenolan as something to do in retirement and mentions it Picard in passing. Geordi, Data, and O'Brien hear about it and ask Scotty to show them. He does, and then it becomes their life-long project.
Eventually one of them cracks the nut. Spock hears about it and calls 'em up to ask because he had an invested interest.
Then, of course, he ends up taking it back in time with him. nuScotty is able to reverse-engineer (The Chiefs?) wizardry because it was still so close to his own.
Khan can do the same because he's uber smart.
Yeah. That's really convoluted and probably not worth the effort. It's best to just say to yourself "It's magic!" and move on.
Just assume the Transwarp beaming thing is a 24c technology.
The way I figure it is this: Scotty comes up with the idea (in primeverse) around the same time he does in nuVerse, but doesn't have the tools or know-how to really make it work. And it becomes one of those projects people tinker on throughout their careers. He uses Spock to bounce ideas off from time to time since he's the one mostly likely to have some insight. He eventually brings it with him on the Jenolan as something to do in retirement and mentions it Picard in passing. Geordi, Data, and O'Brien hear about it and ask Scotty to show them. He does, and then it becomes their life-long project.
Eventually one of them cracks the nut. Spock hears about it and calls 'em up to ask because he had an invested interest.
Then, of course, he ends up taking it back in time with him. nuScotty is able to reverse-engineer (The Chiefs?) wizardry because it was still so close to his own.
Khan can do the same because he's uber smart.
Yeah. That's really convoluted and probably not worth the effort. It's best to just say to yourself "It's magic!" and move on.
Re: Transporters to Good
Sequece of events:
Scotty Prime perfects his transwarp formula after his TNG-era resurrection. He tells Spock Prime.
Spock Prime goes back in time and shows Scotty. Scotty and Kirk beam from Delta Vega to the warping Enterprise and later Kirk and Spock beam from the Enterprise (over Titan) to Narada (over Earth)
Section 31 confiscates the equation from Scotty, and builds the portable transwarp beaming device. Khan steals it and beams from Earth to Kronos.
With Section 31's R+D facility beneath London destroyed, I think the formula's been lost. It's only in Spock Prime's head, now.
Sequece of events:
Scotty Prime perfects his transwarp formula after his TNG-era resurrection. He tells Spock Prime.
Spock Prime goes back in time and shows Scotty. Scotty and Kirk beam from Delta Vega to the warping Enterprise and later Kirk and Spock beam from the Enterprise (over Titan) to Narada (over Earth)
Section 31 confiscates the equation from Scotty, and builds the portable transwarp beaming device. Khan steals it and beams from Earth to Kronos.
With Section 31's R+D facility beneath London destroyed, I think the formula's been lost. It's only in Spock Prime's head, now.
Re: Transporters to Good
If the they're transporters to good, does that also mean they're transporters from evil. And do they transport in daily bread?
If the they're transporters to good, does that also mean they're transporters from evil. And do they transport in daily bread?
Re: Transporters to Good
Having the Transwarp beaming equation lost and present only in Spock Prime's (or possibly Scotty's) mind would be good for the franchise. It would be like how in Harry Potter, J.K. Rowling decided to destroy all the time turners in the 5th book to avoid opening a can of worms.
Having the Transwarp beaming equation lost and present only in Spock Prime's (or possibly Scotty's) mind would be good for the franchise. It would be like how in Harry Potter, J.K. Rowling decided to destroy all the time turners in the 5th book to avoid opening a can of worms.
Re: Transporters to Good
Strangely, neither of them tell the Federation.
PLOT HOOOOOOOOOOOOLE
Strangely, neither of them tell the Federation.
PLOT HOOOOOOOOOOOOLE
Re: Transporters to Good
Nothing wrong with that, it's not as if the post-Dominion War Federation was that benevolent at that time to not misuse the technology.
Besides, who's to say they didn't tell the Federation? Movies make no mention of that.
Strangely, neither of them tell the Federation.
PLOT HOOOOOOOOOOOOLE
Nothing wrong with that, it's not as if the post-Dominion War Federation was that benevolent at that time to not misuse the technology.
Besides, who's to say they didn't tell the Federation? Movies make no mention of that.
Re: Transporters to Good
In 2387 people could be transwarp beaming everywhere, for all we know.
BUT, I just remembered that we saw the vert similar "subspace beaming" in the Next Gen episode "Bloodlines". Bok and Picard beam several light-years, with only a minor modification to the transporter. Odd that they seem to forget they can do that...
LAFORGE: We think he's using some sort of subspace transporter to beam aboard the Enterprise.
PICARD: My understanding is that such devices were impractical.
DATA: The Federation abandoned its research in the field because the technology was found to be unreliable, as well as energy intensive.
LAFORGE: In order to transport matter through subspace, you have to put it into a state of quantum flux. It's very unstable.
PICARD: What range would that kind of transporter have?
DATA: In theory it could operate over several light years.
http://www.chakoteya.net/nextgen/274.htm
In 2387 people could be transwarp beaming everywhere, for all we know.
BUT, I just remembered that we saw the vert similar "subspace beaming" in the Next Gen episode "Bloodlines". Bok and Picard beam several light-years, with only a minor modification to the transporter. Odd that they seem to forget they can do that...
LAFORGE: We think he's using some sort of subspace transporter to beam aboard the Enterprise.
PICARD: My understanding is that such devices were impractical.
DATA: The Federation abandoned its research in the field because the technology was found to be unreliable, as well as energy intensive.
LAFORGE: In order to transport matter through subspace, you have to put it into a state of quantum flux. It's very unstable.
PICARD: What range would that kind of transporter have?
DATA: In theory it could operate over several light years.
http://www.chakoteya.net/nextgen/274.htm
In addition to "Bloodlines", there's also "High Ground" where likewise our heroes agree that super-transporters are known to the Federation but impractical and unsafe and therefore not in use. Sounds consistent to me; it seems that ol' Emory Erickson already had it all figured out, but his research proved that super-transporters were not worth the hassle.
Not until Scotty's improvements, that is. Or then Scotty only made the devices a tad less lethal, but that was enough for Spock Prime's purposes of stopping Nero; Spock wouldn't have worried all that much about the personal safety of Kirk at that point.
Or Marcus hands over the device to Khan so that Khan can go to Kronos and become a convenient target for Marcus' torpedoes. Khan may be fooled into thinking he stole the device from Marcus against the Admiral's will, or he may be fooled into thinking that his going to Kronos is to some different purpose and will not result in his death. Or then Khan is supposed to be fooled that way, but knows from the get-go how Marcus is betraying him, yet plays along because he also knows how to save his own ass.
Timo Saloniemi
Not until Scotty's improvements, that is. Or then Scotty only made the devices a tad less lethal, but that was enough for Spock Prime's purposes of stopping Nero; Spock wouldn't have worried all that much about the personal safety of Kirk at that point.
Or Marcus hands over the device to Khan so that Khan can go to Kronos and become a convenient target for Marcus' torpedoes. Khan may be fooled into thinking he stole the device from Marcus against the Admiral's will, or he may be fooled into thinking that his going to Kronos is to some different purpose and will not result in his death. Or then Khan is supposed to be fooled that way, but knows from the get-go how Marcus is betraying him, yet plays along because he also knows how to save his own ass.
Timo Saloniemi
Could the HUP be used as an excuse for why Starfleet doesn't use the transwarp beaming regularly? I admit I know very little about that stuff, but I'm sure they could have Scotty throw in some unobtrusive exposition (a simple line or two) in the next film about how the Heisenberg Compensators lack the sophistication to transwarp beam within acceptable safety levels or something like that.
Not so sure it would make the best excuse. The Uncertainty Principle applies on a quantum level, and the Heisenberg compensators were supposed to be a <magic tech> means of working around a "position and momentum of particle A may not both be measurable without interfering with position/movement of particle A and thus rendering the measurement invalid" sort of problem. How that might be affected by transport distance I couldn't guess, but I'm thinking not very much.
Something closer to an "annular confinement beam" type of <magic tech> might be a better bet.
Aren't those concerns pretty much one and the same, though? If Kirk turns into a pile of goo or gets transported into a bulkhead, he isn't going to be doing any Nero-stopping. And Spock Prime did seem concerned with nuverse-Kirk's destiny.
Risk versus gain: One transport might not be lethal or even that risky; but repeated use might stack the damage or increase your risks of something going wrong.
If Starfleet had access to transwarp beaming, it might be stolen, (or assimilated 
) by the Borg/Klingons/Romulans/Dominion/Cardassians.
Risk to great.
) by the Borg/Klingons/Romulans/Dominion/Cardassians.Risk to great.
The Dominion already had similar long range transporters - weirdly they only used it for dramatic Vorta escapes and not to, say, beam an armed torpedo into the Federation President's office.
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