Scaling the Excelsior Filming Model

[Praetor]

Each bay may be more specialized for different types of craft -- the upper bay for the crew shuttles, with the lower bay for more industrial transport crafts. I envision workbees towing cargo containers, like here and here.

I'm leaning toward this, at the moment.

At first glance the Earth Spacedock looks like a Star Trek version of the Death Star and the chasm of Excelsior like the hangar bay of an imperial Star Destroyer.

But the romantic in me says that this is just a deceiving appearance while instead the ILM designers and model makers possibly approached their Star Trek III creations rather with the intention to feature these as “counterparts” to their “cousins” in the SW Universe.

...one design purpose of the Excelsior’s hangar bay could have been to enable the “repair” of smaller vessels since it appears to have essential characteristics of a miniature onboard spacedock to substitute the lack of such facilities at the outermost borders of Federation space (“Star Destroyer” vs. “Star Explorer”).

Interesting notions there. This could help explain why the "southern" bay was so different indeed. Not just a support bay for herself, but for other small ships too. I kinda like it.

I’m definitely not suggesting that transwarp was a failure (just because Scotty had sabotaged the T-drive before it even got a chance to be tested ) – and in the early TNG phase Andrew Probert considered the Enterprise-D to use transwarp drive where merely the “trans” had been dropped – but the modular nature of the components inside the chasm, from ST VI on, is rather evident, IMHO.

Interesting. I didn't know Mr. Probert regarded it that way. I always tried to mitigate the notion that it "failed" by saying that the result was a conventional system that was still light-years better (no pun intended) than conventional warp drive. I'm in the minority, but I've always interpreted transwarp to be along the lines of a jump drive. Styles' lines in TSFS might seem to agree with this. Then again, the line "All speeds available through transwarp drive..." is a tantalizing one.

(And, I concluded transwarp to be a failure by the fact that they didn't call it transwarp on TNG, and later by the fact that other races had something called transwarp.)

These modules look like they might perfectly fit into other Federation vessels, but stick out like a sore thumb inside the chasms of the Excelsior Class: A module designed exclusively for the Excelsior Class would fill the entire available chasm space, but what we see leaves plenty of unused (and wasted) space port and starboard of these modules which begs for explanation.

So in other words, you're contending that the module is the transwarp drive system, which was in fact successful and later revised for other ships into something less... modular? But for the Excelsior class, they had to remain with this odd semi-vestigial modular weirdness?

In general I feel that the cargo transport capabilities of other starships next to the Enterprise (i.e. Miranda and Excelsior Class) still merit further evaluation.

Agreed.

Where was Excelsior assembled? Given the apparent shortness of time between ST II and III obviously not in the orbital San Francisco dockyard because this one had been occupied by the Enterprise at the beginning of ST II (and seems to small to accomodate Excelsior).

Why can't there be other drydocks? (This is something I've always assumed to be the case.) In Generations, we see an apparently larger one inside of which the Enterprise-B was built. Perhaps it's the same one in which the Excelsior was built?

Can we exclude the possibility it was assembled inside Earth Spacedock? Our protagonists seem rather surprised to see her there at the beginning of ST III, as if they had been totally kept in the dark that Excelsior was soon to be ready (plot hole?). Or was that the "public restricted" section, accessible only to Excelsior personnel (e.g. Janice Rand) which exclusively witnessed the return of the battle-damaged Enterprise from the Mutara sector (another delicate topic).

Of course this may explain a few things. They assembled the ship inside Earth Spacedock but totally forgot that it wouldn't fit through the spacedoors.

I don't think we can rule that out... but somehow Spacedock has always seemed unlikely as a starship construction facility to me, given what we saw inside. Still, I don't think it can be ruled out. And, I've never considered the possibility that Rand was on Excelsior, especially given we see her in San Francisco in the next film. I always assumed she was assigned to Earth. Then again, in TSFS she appears to be a Commander, so she might have a twin sister.

Look like I'm a little late to the party, but I wanted to get a better look in the chasm of the Valley Forge so o messed with the levels a bit. Here you go, in case you wanted to see too.

Thank you for providing that sir. I might have to take some very rapid screen caps and alter the levels similarly to see if any more light can be shed. It appears to me as if there is more of a reinforcement around the pod in this version - which should come as no surprise since I believe this model was made from the Jein version, which did have a slightly different structure inside there. I'll dig up pics later.

Also, as to R2-D2 having black panels, it's the same reason as why the Imperial officers sometimes have black rank insignia instead of blue: the blue color gets chemically stripped from the film stock when they used blue screen to optically composite images. In fact, that's why blue is the color for bluescreen; blue was the top layer of film color, so most easily removed, also, there is very little blue in a human face, so it's the easiest color to work around. But little blue panels like on R2 and those rank pips, become transparent on that film layer and the black space background shows through. If you read George Lucas's novel of Star Wars you may notice that Luke's X-Wing was originally supposed to be Blue 5 rather than Red 5. But the compositing process using bluescreen would have not worked with blue striping on the model, so they changed it to Red.

I imagine this is why the Excelsior was photographed to appear as gray as possible also, for fear of the blue parts turning transparent (and therefore black) in the final print.

--Alex

Fascinating explanation... thanks for that, too.

 

[Timo]

Bob, you are definitely onto something as regards cargo/supplies stowage and transfer (although the actual designers of these photographic models probably didn't spare any thought to such things). With the increased reach of a successful transwarp drive, there would have to be a logistics revolution in Starfleet - and the Excelsior, no matter how experimental, was certainly built with success in mind, featuring all the familiar elements of a deep space exploration and combat starship as defined in TOS and redefined in TMP. Plus more...

The "more" could certainly be logistics-related. Or then it could be a side effect of the ship shunting all of its truly experimental and untrustworthy bits into the lower keel area, and keeping a path clear for dumping them to space at the earliest sign of trouble!

(And, I concluded transwarp to be a failure by the fact that they didn't call it transwarp on TNG, and later by the fact that other races had something called transwarp.)

But taken literally, transwarp is "beyond warp", "the next thing after warp". Once adopted to use, it ceases to be transwarp, and the sights are set for the next "the next".

Which is why all sorts of completely unrelated FTL drives can be "transwarp" at the same time, or at various points of history.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Robert Comsol]

So in other words, you're contending that the module is the transwarp drive system, which was in fact successful and later revised for other ships into something less... modular? But for the Excelsior class, they had to remain with this odd semi-vestigial modular weirdness?

I believe the transwarp drive was only a large module aboard NX-2000. If the 23rd Century transwarp failed, the module was discarded, if transwarp worked, they came up with smaller components and integrated those into the Excelsior Class. Either way, the chasm became available for other applications.

Why can't there be other drydocks? (This is something I've always assumed to be the case.) In Generations, we see an apparently larger one inside of which the Enterprise-B was built. Perhaps it's the same one in which the Excelsior was built?

Frankly, it's the weird astonishment of the bridge crew at the start of ST III that made me wonder. Have they not seen the ship in drydock before, don't they know she has an experimental transwarp drive?

Why even bring her from the drydock inside the spacedock? Kirk's Enterprise departed twice from drydock, Harriman's Enterprise-B departed from drydock, only Excelsior didn't.

Of course, Earth Spacedock is shielded from curious eyes and that quarter section with the Excelsior may have been a restricted area, hence the bridge crew's surprise.

Maybe it was a deliberate decision to have the Enterprise anchor there and thus withdraw her from public attention and scatter the crew USS Liberty (the real ship) style.

If you seriously come to think of it, Kirk's career was heading for a dive. Somebody had to answer for what happened in ST II and considering all the lives lost under Kirk's watch because of his negligence, not to mention his naive and personal vouching for Dr. Marcus' Genesis Project, I can't help but feel that Captain Styles' threat was as empty as you could possibly imagine. Shall I continue...?

And, I've never considered the possibility that Rand was on Excelsior, especially given we see her in San Francisco in the next film. I always assumed she was assigned to Earth. Then again, in TSFS she appears to be a Commander, so she might have a twin sister.

She was a bridge officer aboard Excelsior in ST VI and I think she had been on that ship from day one with that lounge in ST III having been reserved exclusively for Excelsior personnel.

Bob

 

[Workbee]

Alex:

That makes sense now about why the blue was toned down. Would that be a huge oversight on ILM's part, seeing as they were heavily involved in the design? After all their experience with the Star Wars trilogy, and the troubles they had with bluescreening the enterprise in TWOK with its reflective paint, I would think Steve Gawley and Bill George would have been PAINFULLY aware of the problems with bluespill and would have taken careful steps to avoid it. Painting blue highlights on the model just seems like they were asking for trouble. Then again, for all I know maybe they did take it into account, knew how to compensate for it. But why not just paint it grey?

Anyways, back on topic.... I like the idea of it being the gap being a sort of miniature spacedock. One thing that the movies introduced that we never got to see in TOS due to budget and effect limitations were all the smaller ships: the workbees, the tugs, travel pods, warp sleds, etc. It makes sense that facilities are needed to maintain these vessels. Perhaps this area housed some of the TSFS/TVH style tugs we see around spacedock (which the only thing we may have seen towing was that Kirk & Crew's travelpod in TVH).

As far as the space originally being dedicated to Transwarp, in my personal continuity Transwarp was successful and became the "standard" warp in TNG -- explaining why all ships classes from Excelsior through the "D" have the "layered" nacelle style with the grey / blue glowing "with mint frosting" layer sandwiched between upper and lower housings. Which is just my opinion -- the Transwarp as a partial or complete failure are equally valid interpretations.

But if Excelsiors were the next generation of ships after Constitutions, I think it is safe to assume that many will be sent out on exploration / frontier peacekeeping missions, TOS style. So having robust resources would be important and be factored into the design.

It always struck me odd how in the movies, they depicted most of the lower hull being occupied by engineering and the shuttle bay. In TOS Engineering and Shuttle Bays were each confined to singular rooms (and yes, one can argue there were multiple engineering rooms reflecting the different configurations of the set, but we don't conclusively which ones or if any of them were in the secondary hull). I liked to imagine that the lower hull was filled with "science stuff" -- sensors, equipment, labs, etc. The revelation in TMP that such a large volume of that part of the ship was dedicated to the engines struck a dissonant chord for me. Any explanation that moves away from gargantuan drive system thingy, in favor of exploration specific purposes is more appealing to me. Star Trek, for me at least, was never about "breaking speed records" -- especially Warp Speed was basically as fast or as slow as the plot needed it to be from episode to episode. I want the ship filled with labratories, teams of scientists, botanists, astronomers, cartographers and the like analyzing stuff... WITH SCIENCE!! To me, the Excelsior was to (and by TUC did) herald a shift away from the Bennett/Meyer/Nimoy militaristic Starfleet back toward the peaceful scientific Starfleet of TOS. Design emphasizes this -- torpedo launchers are again recessed instead of sticking right out there on the refit-E. As much as I enjoyed the refit-E's aesthetic, that was something I had issue with.

 

[Timo]

Why even bring her from the drydock inside the spacedock?

I'd argue that Spacedock Earth is exclusively for embarkation and disembarkation - the equivalent of a commercial airport, only in orbit. Perhaps it's even a civilian installation for the most part, with Starfleet just holding a pier or two (at least during the militant 2280s). That the Excelsior is there is a sign that all work on her has been brought to completion and she's ready to embark on test flights.

As for "surprise", I don't see much of that in the eyes of the heroes. Awe, perhaps - but the Excelsior isn't a surprise, merely the shiny new thing, now presented to their eyes for the first time.

As much as I enjoyed the refit-E's aesthetic, that was something I had issue with.

OTOH, a "refit" usually is an ugly thing, built of compromise atop compromise...

We could similarly dismiss the comparable Constellation ugliness as old technology taken to ridiculous extremes before new tech steps in. But the Miranda and the Sydney are ugly the very same way, with protruding this-and-that, and they supposedly aren't refits or extreme experiments.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[137th Gebirg]

^^^ when you said "old technology taken to ridiculous extremes", my mind immediately went to some of the ships in the DS9 frankenfleet.

 

[Timo]

...Assuming those were contemporary, rather than just plain old. After all, the highest registries witnessed were in the mid-60000 range, while the lowest Galaxy registries are in the 70000s and supposedly indicate the onset of the 2360s.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Robert Comsol]

I'd argue that Spacedock Earth is exclusively for embarkation and disembarkation - the equivalent of a commercial airport, only in orbit. ... . That the Excelsior is there is a sign that all work on her has been brought to completion and she's ready to embark on test flights.

Thanks, that was the argument I missed: Since when are test flights conducted from commercial airports?

• refit Enterprise - dockyard is departure point for maiden voyage and test flight
• Enterprise-B - dockyard is departure point for maiden voyage and test flight

Excelsior however sits in Earth Spacedock to prepare for her maiden voyage and test flight. Odd!


@ Workbee

I'd say that "Day of the Dove" answers some of your questions. According to the alien entity's exit point in TOS one engine room was at the center of the engineering hull near the bow.

It's also interesting to note that neither Kirk or Spock found it odd, that 400 crew members went to the lower decks and got trapped below this engine room. Looks like there should be plenty of labs and workplaces down below which I hope to be able to illustrate in one of the next stages of my TOS Enterprise deck plan project.

Bob

Addendum: I should state that the Excelsior's designer name I mentioned in my little conjectural speech ("Thorndike") is not entirely conjectural.

I thought his name was mentioned by Uhura in ST III when she sees the Excelsior.
As it turns out the name is an invention of the movie's German dubbing (instead of "will you look at that" the German Uhura said "Thorndike's idea").

Ain't that cool, now we also know the name of the Excelsior's designer!

 

[Tomalak]

I'd argue that Spacedock Earth is exclusively for embarkation and disembarkation - the equivalent of a commercial airport, only in orbit. Perhaps it's even a civilian installation for the most part, with Starfleet just holding a pier or two (at least during the militant 2280s).

Yeah, I like that a lot. It's "Spacedock" rather than "Starbase 1", it has a cantina full of civvies and pirates, and it's got some truly abysmal policemen. Having it as the main space hub for Earth makes a bit more sense of the scale of the thing - they'd have to set aside a good deal of space for cargo and things like passport control and quarantine.

 

[Robert Comsol]

It's "Spacedock" rather than "Starbase 1", it has a cantina full of civvies and pirates, and it's got some truly abysmal policemen.

Are you implying that Kirk and the others went to his apartment in San Francisco and had abandoned the good doctor on the spacedock?!?

They think he's home, but McCoy apparently visits a bar in San Francisco, is picked up by a Fed and policemen, is put in a holding cell, freed by Kirk and beamed up to the Enterprise by Uhura at the Old City Station, "the worst duty station in town".

Bob

 

[Praetor]

Bob, you are definitely onto something as regards cargo/supplies stowage and transfer (although the actual designers of these photographic models probably didn't spare any thought to such things). With the increased reach of a successful transwarp drive, there would have to be a logistics revolution in Starfleet - and the Excelsior, no matter how experimental, was certainly built with success in mind, featuring all the familiar elements of a deep space exploration and combat starship as defined in TOS and redefined in TMP. Plus more...

The "more" could certainly be logistics-related. Or then it could be a side effect of the ship shunting all of its truly experimental and untrustworthy bits into the lower keel area, and keeping a path clear for dumping them to space at the earliest sign of trouble!

Brilliantly put, by you and Bob. I will keep this at heart when I start revising my TM.

But taken literally, transwarp is "beyond warp", "the next thing after warp". Once adopted to use, it ceases to be transwarp, and the sights are set for the next "the next".

Which is why all sorts of completely unrelated FTL drives can be "transwarp" at the same time, or at various points of history.

I have a feeling I'm going to have to re-make up my my mind about this. I still like my current have-my-cake-and-eat-it-too solution.

I believe the transwarp drive was only a large module aboard NX-2000. If the 23rd Century transwarp failed, the module was discarded, if transwarp worked, they came up with smaller components and integrated those into the Excelsior Class. Either way, the chasm became available for other applications.

Okay. Do you have a particular vision for how the transwarp drive would be a modular unit? Seems to kind of defy the notion of a warp core as we know it... or even the intermix chamber of TMP.

Frankly, it's the weird astonishment of the bridge crew at the start of ST III that made me wonder. Have they not seen the ship in drydock before, don't they know she has an experimental transwarp drive?

See, I don't read it as astonishment. I read it as mock awe on the part of Scotty and Uhura, and genuine interest on Sulu's part.

Why even bring her from the drydock inside the spacedock? Kirk's Enterprise departed twice from drydock, Harriman's Enterprise-B departed from drydock, only Excelsior didn't.

For the Enterprise-B, we saw a commissioning ceremony taking place in drydock. We are apt to assume the same thing took place for the Excelsior in her own drydock. The Enterprise-B was returning somewhere to get her torpedoes installed on Tuesday - perhaps it was Spacedock to which she would return for a final fitting out?

Of course, Earth Spacedock is shielded from curious eyes and that quarter section with the Excelsior may have been a restricted area, hence the bridge crew's surprise.

Maybe it was a deliberate decision to have the Enterprise anchor there and thus withdraw her from public attention and scatter the crew USS Liberty (the real ship) style.

I'm sure there's some measure of security afforded by Spacedock, but surely also the Sol System is relatively secure from prying eyes already? Or at least, any security compromises are considered acceptable.

If you seriously come to think of it, Kirk's career was heading for a dive. Somebody had to answer for what happened in ST II and considering all the lives lost under Kirk's watch because of his negligence, not to mention his naive and personal vouching for Dr. Marcus' Genesis Project, I can't help but feel that Captain Styles' threat was as empty as you could possibly imagine. Shall I continue...?

In my TM writeup, I sort of concluded that Admiral Morrow had it out a bit for the Enterprise (because he was making his legacy in the Excelsior) and that Kirk and Styles were rivals from the Academy.

She was a bridge officer aboard Excelsior in ST VI and I think she had been on that ship from day one with that lounge in ST III having been reserved exclusively for Excelsior personnel.

Then why'd she get bumped from Commander in TSFS to Chief Petty Officer in TVH in the service of Starfleet HQ, then back to Lieutenant Commander in TUC when on Excelsior?

Alex:
It always struck me odd how in the movies, they depicted most of the lower hull being occupied by engineering and the shuttle bay. In TOS Engineering and Shuttle Bays were each confined to singular rooms (and yes, one can argue there were multiple engineering rooms reflecting the different configurations of the set, but we don't conclusively which ones or if any of them were in the secondary hull). I liked to imagine that the lower hull was filled with "science stuff" -- sensors, equipment, labs, etc. The revelation in TMP that such a large volume of that part of the ship was dedicated to the engines struck a dissonant chord for me. Any explanation that moves away from gargantuan drive system thingy, in favor of exploration specific purposes is more appealing to me. Star Trek, for me at least, was never about "breaking speed records" -- especially Warp Speed was basically as fast or as slow as the plot needed it to be from episode to episode. I want the ship filled with labratories, teams of scientists, botanists, astronomers, cartographers and the like analyzing stuff... WITH SCIENCE!! To me, the Excelsior was to (and by TUC did) herald a shift away from the Bennett/Meyer/Nimoy militaristic Starfleet back toward the peaceful scientific Starfleet of TOS. Design emphasizes this -- torpedo launchers are again recessed instead of sticking right out there on the refit-E. As much as I enjoyed the refit-E's aesthetic, that was something I had issue with.

Very interesting points I hadn't fully considered before. I do agree with you about the science labs. If the navigational deflector is also the main sensor array, then it also makes sense that there would be adjoining science labs. I propsed the protusions on the Enterprise-B added to the secondary hull mostly added more science lab facilities, along similar lines of thinking.

I'd argue that Spacedock Earth is exclusively for embarkation and disembarkation - the equivalent of a commercial airport, only in orbit. Perhaps it's even a civilian installation for the most part, with Starfleet just holding a pier or two (at least during the militant 2280s). That the Excelsior is there is a sign that all work on her has been brought to completion and she's ready to embark on test flights.

I'd agree that it was more of an embarkation/debarkation point - but I would think of it less like an airport and more like a pier. That civilians are there is probably somewhat incidental. I'm sure there is adequate security aboard to prevent stealing of a ship. Oh, wait...

We could similarly dismiss the comparable Constellation ugliness as old technology taken to ridiculous extremes before new tech steps in. But the Miranda and the Sydney are ugly the very same way, with protruding this-and-that, and they supposedly aren't refits or extreme experiments.

While I agree on the Constellation and the DS9 kitbashes being old(er) technology taken to extremes, I would disagree that the Miranda and Sydney are similarly ugly. I think they're simply second-rate as opposed to the Constitution class. As for the registry numbers of the Frankenfleet, perhaps some of them were given new numbers when they were recommissioned?

I'd say that "Day of the Dove" answers some of your questions. According to the alien entity's exit point in TOS one engine room was at the center of the engineering hull near the bow.

It's also interesting to note that neither Kirk or Spock found it odd, that 400 crew members went to the lower decks and got trapped below this engine room. Looks like there should be plenty of labs and workplaces down below which I hope to be able to illustrate in one of the next stages of my TOS Enterprise deck plan project.

Great point!

Addendum: I should state that the Excelsior's designer name I mentioned in my little conjectural speech ("Thorndike") is not entirely conjectural.

I thought his name was mentioned by Uhura in ST III when she sees the Excelsior.

As it turns out the name is an invention of the movie's German dubbing (instead of "will you look at that" the German Uhura said "Thorndike's idea").

Ain't that cool, now we also know the name of the Excelsior's designer!

Odd little tidbit. I shall have to work that into my TM. I trust you won't let me forget it?

Yeah, I like that a lot. It's "Spacedock" rather than "Starbase 1", it has a cantina full of civvies and pirates, and it's got some truly abysmal policemen.

You know, I always assumed that took place on Earth. You may be right, though.

Also, I'm fairly certain that was Starfleet security holding McCoy, rather than civilian. Redshirts by any other name have just as bad aim.

 

[Timo]

refit Enterprise - dockyard is departure point for maiden voyage and test flight

Only because she was in an exceptional hurry. The box docks could well be for repair work only, and starships would extremely seldom visit those, whereas routine crew rotation and the like would often involve Spacedock-like facilities (except in deep space where it would involve K-7 lookalikes).

Enterprise-B - dockyard is departure point for maiden voyage and test flight

A ceremonial launch and a pleasure cruise only. After that, the ship would probably return to the box dock for months of further fitting (or at least until next Tuesday), and then receive full crew and reach the stage at which NX-2000 was when Kirk got home from Genesis.

Excelsior however sits in Earth Spacedock to prepare for her maiden voyage and test flight.

No indication that she wouldn't have been on her maiden voyage months or years ago already. Only that she hasn't been testing transwarp under the command of Styles yet, at least not at such levels as to threaten the standing speed records.

It's also interesting to note that neither Kirk or Spock found it odd, that 400 crew members went to the lower decks and got trapped below this engine room.

Hmm. Why "below"? It's not in the dialogue anywhere. The prisoners are "below" only from the viewpoints of the bridge and the armory...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Timo]

Then why'd she get bumped from Commander in TSFS to Chief Petty Officer in TVH in the service of Starfleet HQ, then back to Lieutenant Commander in TUC when on Excelsior?

Actually, it's only junior Lieutenant in ST6:TUC. The Lieutenant Commander bit comes from Tuvok's feverish dream in "Flashback", and is probably about as much based in reality as the rest of that dream.

But yes, the reddish-haired Commander in ST3 represents a massive discontinuity in Rand's career, and thus probably is best interpreted as GLW playing another character for a change. The actual Janice Rand going mustang after ST4 and reaching Lt (jg) by the time of ST6 is plausible career development...

Also, I'm fairly certain that was Starfleet security holding McCoy, rather than civilian.

The gaol personnel certainly wore Starfleet insignia, as did their leather-armored reinforcements. It's just the plainclothesman who arrests McCoy in the first place that we might interpret as a civilian cop of some sort - he says he represents "Federation Security", which may be an organization separate from Starfleet.

That would be our only time witnessing law enforcement performed by civilians, though. (It's more like "secret police" business, actually. But if CIA arrested McCoy, would they agree to deliver him to a USAF gaol?)

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Tomalak]

It's "Spacedock" rather than "Starbase 1", it has a cantina full of civvies and pirates, and it's got some truly abysmal policemen.

Are you implying that Kirk and the others went to his apartment in San Francisco and had abandoned the good doctor on the spacedock?!?

They think he's home, but McCoy apparently visits a bar in San Francisco, is picked up by a Fed and policemen, is put in a holding cell, freed by Kirk and beamed up to the Enterprise by Uhura at the Old City Station, "the worst duty station in town".

Bob

Huh. Guess I've had that wrong for the last twenty years.

 

[Tomalak]

That would be our only time witnessing law enforcement performed by civilians, though. (It's more like "secret police" business, actually. But if CIA arrested McCoy, would they agree to deliver him to a USAF gaol?)

Timo Saloniemi

Secret police is right. How does he know who McCoy is anyway? Has he run his ID through a database off camera?

One for those who think the Federation is really a Stalinist police state.

 

[Robert Comsol]

Do you have a particular vision for how the transwarp drive would be a modular unit? Seems to kind of defy the notion of a warp core as we know it... or even the intermix chamber of TMP.

Damnit, I'm a deck plan designer, not a transwarp engineer!

Might have something to do with tapping into the main navigational deflector or the creation of exotic energy. We'd first have to figure out the defining characteristic of "tranwarp". Can't TNG's "Descent" provide some clues?

In my TM writeup, I sort of concluded that Admiral Morrow had it out a bit for the Enterprise (because he was making his legacy in the Excelsior) and that Kirk and Styles were rivals from the Academy.

Possible, but Styles was an egotistic prick and everybody would have been his rival Frankly, I think that guy was a loose cannon, totally unqualified for any high-profile diplomatic mission and Starfleet was in desperate need to give this guy an assignment where he couldn't do harm. Testing the Excelsior for performance would qualify as such, IMO.

Odd little tidbit. I shall have to work that into my TM. I trust you won't let me forget it?

Do or do not. Just bear in mind that there is a high probability that German fans like Bernd Schneider, Tobias Richter and others would instinctively notice the absence of the name of the ship's designer "Thorndike".
I do not know from where "Berliner Synchron Wenzel Lüdecke" got the idea to use this name in the dubbing to identify the Excelsior Class designer. But there is some odd coincidence that we do have an Excelsior Class Berlin (NCC-14232). In a manner of speaking there is a connection Thorndike-Berlin-Excelsior Class.

I always assumed that took place on Earth.

The movie suggests your assumption is right, looks like you missed my comment while writing yours.

Bob

 

[Timo]

There's room for speculation there, I guess. McCoy was said to be "home, resting comfortably, pumped full of tranquilizers" a few scenes earlier. So unless he lived in that giant space city, he must have gotten away from it for a while at least - but returning there is by no means out of the question. The bar might be aboard Spacedock Earth, or down at San Francisco, or perhaps in Berlin, or on the Moon, or at the bottom of the Caribbean. Travel around and out of the globe in the 23rd century is fairly trivial, at least if you are a Starfleet officer...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Tomalak]

I guess when I was a kid I just assumed he'd go looking for a guy with a spaceship on the big space station we'd just seen. I've just stuck with that ever since!

 

[Workbee]

As much as I enjoyed the refit-E's aesthetic, that was something I had issue with.

OTOH, a "refit" usually is an ugly thing, built of compromise atop compromise...

Oh, it isn't ugly by any means. In fact, I think that it LOOKS great. I think the word is brazen. Having the torp bays out like that just screamed, excuse the expression, "look at THESE guns" or if you prefer, "we come in peace: shoot to kill." It's as if they took the general smooth aesthetic of the TOS enterprise, but got it backward.

In TOS, all the phaser emitters and torpedo ports were recessed and possibly covered, while navigational sensor / deflector dish protruded. In the movies, the sensors and deflectors were recessed, and the weapons were what protruded.

I am sure there are reasons for this both in universe and production wise, but ironically these changes happened under Roddenberry's watch, before Bennett and Meyer were ever involved.

Sorry to get so far off topic.

 

[Timo]

Ah, I understand. But leaving newly installed, supposedly improved weapons protrude could also be the sign of a half-baked job...

Timo Saloniemi