It's the people walking around with signs saying Free Hugs I'm talking about.
Sexual harassment at SF cons
- Thread starter Dohlman
- Start date
'Should be expected'...'have someone there to discourage most of that'... Seriously?!? Why should bad behavior ever be expected and why should a woman be required to have somebody else with her to protect her?
Jan
Getting back on topic...
I think it should be expected if you are a female and going some place crowded to get some unwanted attention or get "bumped" into. Organizers really can't police everyone. But as long as you have someone there with you to discourage most of that, things should be fine.
I don't know what you mean by "bumped" into, but I expect men to keep their hands to themselves, and I shouldn't have to expect otherwise. Getting groped or grinded goes way beyond the pale. Cons need to state that such behavior will not be tolerated and offer a venue for complaints to be dealt with promptly and fairly. Forward-thinking cons will link to harassment training on their site and post reminders at the con location.
Damn straight!
Cons need to have zero tolerance for this stuff. It's fine to look, guys. But don't grab, poke, grope, touch, accidentally-on-purpose "bump into," etc.
Most of the conventions I go to are anime-oriented, which has a very female-heavy fandom, and so (I think) fewer problems with this sort of behavior.
The "deal" with them is that they are as you said--creepy. Cons are welcoming environments for people who may feel rejected in other spheres of life. It's a place where they can possibly get consensual physical contact. I never see the "free hugs" people actually getting many hugs, though.
Getting back on topic...
I think it should be expected if you are a female and going some place crowded to get some unwanted attention or get "bumped" into. Organizers really can't police everyone. But as long as you have someone there with you to discourage most of that, things should be fine.
This is what's wrong with people today. "If you are a woman you should stay home or it's your own fault someone gropes you." Seriously? That IS what you are saying here. People should be able to walk around nude without being groped. I'm glad it's not legal to run around nude though. That would be weird.
My wife and I have attended at least 10 conventions over the years. We have never seen or experienced any of the behavior described here.
It's unfortunate that people who are supposedly inspired by a vision of an enlightened future would act so boorish while celebrating that vision.
It's unfortunate that people who are supposedly inspired by a vision of an enlightened future would act so boorish while celebrating that vision.
None of that addresses my point. First off, you said that all cultures are homophobic, misogynistic, and racist -- not "or," but "and," meaning all three at once. Most cultures probably do have one or more of the three, but there are documented human societies that lack the sexism and homophobia of Western civilization.
Second, and relatedly, arguing from your own personal experience does not refute my point, because no single person can have experienced every human society in existence. The whole point I'm trying to convey is that humanity is more diverse than any individual's personal experience would reveal, unless that individual is a seasoned world traveler or a professional cultural anthropologist. Every culture has some prejudices, but it's ethnocentric to assume that the particular combination of prejudices prevalent in your own culture and era are a universal truth across all of humanity for all time.
It actually is technically legal in New York State, California, and some other parts of the US for women to go topless or for people to go fully nude so long as it isn't overtly lewd or sexual. Although local ordinances may differ from state law on the matter.
No, that shouldn't be expected, or tolerated, and it's pretty disturbing that you think it should just be an accepted part of the experience.
Getting back on topic...
I think it should be expected if you are a female and going some place crowded to get some unwanted attention or get "bumped" into. Organizers really can't police everyone. But as long as you have someone there with you to discourage most of that, things should be fine.
I think the
smiley more aptly applies to your post. As for free hugs, when the trend first started around 15 years ago I hugged a Free Hugs guy in Seattle, and I was one of many who did, male and female, young and old. He was one of the punk goth kids that hang around Capitol Hill... there was nothing creepy about him, it was actually really sweet. I like the Free Hugs thing. Yeah, it sounds like some creeps have hijacked it, but whenever I've encountered it has been so genuine, and having that kind of contact with a stranger can be really very lovely.
I was at SDCC with my son about five years ago (he was 13 then) and he was very impressed with the cosplayers. He wanted to take pictures, and I told him he should say hello, tell them they look nice or ask what their costume is, and then ask for a picture. He was enjoying the girls posing for pictures.
Then a 'gentleman' came up telling a girl how hot she was and what he would like to do with her. I could see the girl was getting upset and I moved to intercede. But my son turned to the guy and said "Hey loser, do you talk to your sister like that?" and loud enough so everyone around could hear. Said loser slinked away into the crowd, and my son got a kiss on the cheek from the girl for rescuing her.
I was so proud. Ya gotta love it when your kids impress you by showing they have been listening.
As someone who cosplays at conventions - I know many of female friends would find what you to be wrong in all matters. I know of several situations that I've heard of (and seen) where organisers have removed males due to inapproriate actions.
QFT wise grape.
Parenting done right! Your son is awesome!
No, you meant it as intentionally bumping into and rubbing up against cosplayers to cop a feel. That's why you put "bumped" in quotes to make it clear that it wasn't just a case of accidentally bumping into someone but was rather deliberate. You can say you were wrong, but don't try and backtrack from it now that everyone called you out on it.
When I referred to "bumped" I only meant people tend to bump shoulders at very crowed places and cosplayers tend to attract more attention. It happens. But any type of harassment would obviously be wrong.
That is very obviously *not* what you meant. Else why would organizers need to police people accidentally bumping shoulders at a crowded event, and why would a woman need a man there to discourage unintentional incidents?
Agreed. You made the meaning clear when you put it in quotes. Why would anyone need to police an accidental brush of the shoulders?
No need to jump on my back. Maybe I could have put my thoughts into words better, I wasn't excusing any kind of harassment but pointing out unwanted attention should be expected. I get the feeling these incidents at cons are pretty rare.
It happens. You should just learn to expect it.
Getting back on topic...
I think it should be expected if you are a female and going some place crowded to get some unwanted attention or get "bumped" into. Organizers really can't police everyone. But as long as you have someone there with you to discourage most of that, things should be fine.
Why should I expect to get some unwanted attention just because some place has a few people in it.
And why the hell should I need someone to go with me, if a man or women can't stop themselves harassing someone they are the ones who should not be out alone.
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