George Lucas - Why the Vitriol?

[BillJ]

That's not how it seemed in 94, just listen to a Zahn interview about it.

Considering they released three-novels in a 23-month period, I'd say Zahn is misremembering. Book one was released in June 1992 while book two was released in June of '93, meaning that book two had already been green-lighted before the first book was released. The dates for release can be found on Wookiepedia.

Doesn't sound like the publisher had any doubts about the books being successful.

 

[Ain Jalut]

Sorry, wrong post.

 

[MacLeod]

On the subject of CGI vs practical, both have their pros and cons. With practical effects sometimes you can get a happy accident. Something doesn't work right, the light refelcts off it/onto a certain way. With CGI you don't have that. To me the space battle in Jedi is far more intersting than that CGI fest we had at the start of ROTS. To me it just looked fake. Watching some of these older films on blu-rays with practical models and you think wow.

But sometimes you have to use CGI because practical won't work for whatever reason.

 

[Stephen!]

Prequels are boring.

They serve their purpose of providing a back story for the original trilogy, if nothing else.

 

[ichab]

I think the hate comes from his constant "tinkering" with the original trilogy. Not only did he add distracting CGI, but he even changed the scenes aka: Han/Greedo cantina scene. He then went out of his way to ONLY release these new versions and not allow quality copies of the theatrical cuts. A lot of old school fans took that as Lucas saying "F*ck you, I'll do what I want and there's nothing you can do about it." That's where the hate really started. The prequals added gasoline to the fire because they were just so bad, especially the first two. Then when the DVD's came out he "tinkered" with them again to fit with the prequals. And of course when the Blu-Rays came out he changed them again. One final "F.U" to the fans before he sold out to Disney.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I admit my viewpoint on this is biased because I *prefer* all the tinkering he made. I like the special editions better than the originals, the PT better than the OT, etc. (The only thing I don't like is the Greedo scene - not that I could give two shits whether or not Han shot first, but the revised scene is simply badly edited on the face of it.)

So I guess I can understand why Lucas haters pile it on extra vile. Not just because they're jealous of him, but he denied them their preferred version. If somebody fucked around with, say, 2001, and didn't make its theatrical cut available, I might feel the same way.

 

[Trekker4747]

George Lucas - Why the Vitriol?

Watch "A New Hope."

Then watch "The Phantom Menace", pay particular attention to any scene with Jar Jar Binks in it, literally noting every. Single. Thing. He does.

THAT'S why.

Hell, let's go a step broader. ANH is something of a coming-of-age story about a young man teaming up with a mentor and a roguish anti-hero to save a princess and along the way stop and an evil empire! Stuff happens! Action, fights, space-battles, humorous quips with surly antiheroes!

TPM: Something about trade blockades, taxes and Senate procedures.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

IIRC, Ahmed Best had a fair amount of input as to what Jar-Jar acted and sounded like. So you can't blame only Lucas for that.

 

[RandyS]

I think the hate comes from his constant "tinkering" with the original trilogy. Not only did he add distracting CGI, but he even changed the scenes aka: Han/Greedo cantina scene. He then went out of his way to ONLY release these new versions and not allow quality copies of the theatrical cuts. A lot of old school fans took that as Lucas saying "F*ck you, I'll do what I want and there's nothing you can do about it." That's where the hate really started. The prequals added gasoline to the fire because they were just so bad, especially the first two. Then when the DVD's came out he "tinkered" with them again to fit with the prequals. And of course when the Blu-Rays came out he changed them again. One final "F.U" to the fans before he sold out to Disney.

I made this same point earlier in the thread, but while I can see it as a reason to be annoyed with Lucas, I DON'T agree that it's a reason to hate him.

 

[Trekker4747]

IIRC, Ahmed Best had a fair amount of input as to what Jar-Jar acted and sounded like. So you can't blame only Lucas for that.

Ummm yes, I can. Because I believe the Director has a lot to say in the performance of the actor and the look/performance of an actor (CGI character.) So Lucas could have said, "No, that sounds utterly stupid and like a horrible cross between a Jamaican racial stereotype, Roger Rabbit huffing Helium and a bad impersonation of Mike Meyers. Do something else."

Besides, I doubt Ahmed had much input in such "funny" Jar-Jar moments like him stepping in poop at the space port, getting his tongue zapped in the pod-racer engine moorings and whatever the fuck that Keystone Cop routine was during the final battle.

 

[The Old Mixer]

I wonder if a condition of sale mandated by Lucas to Disney was that the Holiday Special will never see the light of day.

The one thing concerning which Lucas has stuck to his guns that I completely agree with.

Considering they released three-novels in a 23-month period, I'd say Zahn is misremembering. Book one was released in June 1992 while book two was released in June of '93, meaning that book two had already been green-lighted before the first book was released. The dates for release can be found on Wookiepedia.

Heir to the Empire was released in hardcover in May 1991.

 

[Set Harth]

Stuff happens!

Because stuff didn't happen in TPM?

Or was it that people didn't like the stuff that did happen?

 

[MacLeod]

They're his films he can change them if he wants to it. You and I may not like it but such is life. Some of the changes were for the better, surely adding the vistas of Cloud city as our characters walk along the corridors enhances those scenes?

 

[crookeddy]

George Lucas - Why the Vitriol?

Watch "A New Hope."

Then watch "The Phantom Menace", pay particular attention to any scene with Jar Jar Binks in it, literally noting every. Single. Thing. He does.

THAT'S why.

Hell, let's go a step broader. ANH is something of a coming-of-age story about a young man teaming up with a mentor and a roguish anti-hero to save a princess and along the way stop and an evil empire! Stuff happens! Action, fights, space-battles, humorous quips with surly antiheroes!

TPM: Something about trade blockades, taxes and Senate procedures.

While Jar Jar was the worst character of all time, C3PO was rather annoying in the PT as well. Plus, Lucas had the sense to get rid of Jar Jar for Clones and ROTS, yet people hate those movies as well.

Also Phantom Menace can also be described as a movie that shows how an inefficient government can be exploited to gain terrible power - a theme relevant in today's world. Lots of people did "the right thing" and ended up doing awful harm. The movies might not quite be modern mythology like the OT, but they are not all fluff either.

 

[crookeddy]

Stuff happens!

Because stuff didn't happen in TPM?

Or was it that people didn't like the stuff that did happen?

A lot of the stuff that happened was totally worthless, like the "ride through the planet's core" and emerging at the base of a waterfall somehow, which made no sense at all.

 

[BillJ]

Considering they released three-novels in a 23-month period, I'd say Zahn is misremembering. Book one was released in June 1992 while book two was released in June of '93, meaning that book two had already been green-lighted before the first book was released. The dates for release can be found on Wookiepedia.

Heir to the Empire was released in hardcover in May 1991.

The Dark Force Rising hardcover was released in June of '92. So we are still looking at roughly a year between publication of the two books.

 

[JarodRussell]

The PT has new fans. Of course the fans of the OT didn't like it as much. Yeah, the PT has a different tone. But a lot of people liked that. For everyone who hates it there's one for loves it. Those who dislike it mostly argue "But it's not like the OT!" Well, it wasn't supposed to be. The PT is aimed at children even more than the OT, that's why there's Jar Jar and funny battle droids. That's why there's a friggin Clone Wars cartoon show.

 

[Mister Fandango]

For everyone who hates it there's one for loves it.

That's not even close to being true regardless of what you're talking about.

 

[JarodRussell]

For everyone who hates it there's one for loves it.

That's not even close to being true regardless of what you're talking about.

Oh hey. Regardless of what you're talking about, it's absolutely true.

 

[Set Harth]

Wookiee is not spelled like "cookie".

Stuff happens!

Because stuff didn't happen in TPM?

Or was it that people didn't like the stuff that did happen?

A lot of the stuff that happened was totally worthless

In other words, "yes".

Hell, let's go a step broader.

Let's not and say we did.

"I hate the film because Jar Jar sucks" is all you need, and it's indisputable as opinion. "Going a step broader" means marching heedlessly into RLM territory by acting as if the film's Jar Jar cooties make it automatically wrong on all levels. There are few ( if any ) films in which nothing happens, and TPM simply isn't one of them.