George Lucas - Why the Vitriol?

[J.T.B.]

^I disagree it's a perfectly reasonable defence.

Director of a movie prefers version B of his movie to version A. Sure some films have the original theatricl version and a directors edition. I think the difference is for the majority of the films the studio not the director holds the rights to the film. In the case of SW as Lucas owned Lucasfilm he owned the rights to his movies. So he could choose which version he would rather have out there.

Obviously.

A reasonable defense would be here are the reasons why, here are the advantages, here are the practical considerations. A simple declaration of personal preference is not generally regarded as a sound argument.

You and I might agree or disagree with his position but as long as he holds the rights he can do what he likes with them.

If you read back in the thread I don't think I or anyone else claimed otherwise. What I am discussing is whether that position is beneficial to the history of the films.

 

[137th Gebirg]

Why do I feel like I just sat down in the Argument Clinic all of a sudden?

 

[Sindatur]

I love it how everybody talks about Lucas being a savvy businessman but he almost killed the franchise.

When did this happen?

Episode 1 Budget = $115M Box office Domestic $431M/Box Office World Wide Over $1Billion
Episode 2 Budget = $115M Domestic $302M/Worldwide $649M
Episode 3 Budget = $113M Domestic $380M/Worldwide $848M

3 movies that cost a combined total of less than $350M, made $1.5B. Damn, I wish someone would kill my finances in the same manner. The Domestic Box Office alone was enough to make a profit and keep the Franchise alive

 

[BillJ]

I love it how everybody talks about Lucas being a savvy businessman but he almost killed the franchise.

When did this happen?

Episode 1 Budget = $115M Box office Domestic $431M/Box Office World Wide Over $1Billion
Episode 2 Budget = $115M Domestic $302M/Worldwide $649M
Episode 3 Budget = $113M Domestic $380M/Worldwide $848M

3 movies that cost a combined total of less than $350M, made $1.5B. Damn, I wish someone would kill my finances in the same manner. The Domestic Box Office alone was enough to make a profit and keep the Franchise alive

Then you factor in sales to cable, home video and merchandising and I'd say Lucas made a killing on the prequel trilogy.

While fans, like myself, were screaming about Jar-Jar, it was a savvy move by Lucas. A character that was going to draw in younger audiences.

 

[137th Gebirg]

So then what you're saying is that George Lucas is the poster boy for being a profound sell-out, by generating such a character at the cost of good storytelling, just for the younger demographic to fill theater seats? While it may be profitable, this only serves to potentially alienate a strong fan-base.

But then again, who am I kidding? Trek in general, and Abrams in particular have been accused of doing this over and over for years and people still keep coming back for more.

Common sense isn't.

 

[Gaith]

While fans, like myself, were screaming about Jar-Jar, it was a savvy move by Lucas. A character that was going to draw in younger audiences.

Right, because if there's anything family-ticket-dragging, toy-buying young boys hate, it's spaceships and laser swords and weird alien creatues and boy heroes.

If anything, Jar Jar probably cost the PT a bit in thwarted repeat TPM ticket purchases. Surely his hugely lessened presence in the following two movies speaks for itself.

 

[J.T.B.]

Right, because if there's anything family-ticket-dragging, toy-buying young boys hate, it's spaceships and laser swords and weird alien creatues and boy heroes.

If anything, Jar Jar probably cost the PT a bit in thwarted repeat TPM ticket purchases. Surely his hugely lessened presence in the following two movies speaks for itself.

That's a good point, but I can easily picture an "Itchy & Scratchy & Poochie"-style marketing meeting where they rhapsodized about the benefits of bringing a funny cartoon-like character to the franchise. In fact, in that Simpsons ep didn't one of them say they needed to "Rasta-fy" the character by a certain factor? Rasta, Jamaican accent...

But that's not to say that it wasn't a valid choice for Lucas to make. He's responsible for a lot of money and a lot of jobs, and maximizing profits is the name of the game. It's not conducive to good filmmaking, IMO, but I understand it.

 

[BillJ]

If anything, Jar Jar probably cost the PT a bit in thwarted repeat TPM ticket purchases. Surely his hugely lessened presence in the following two movies speaks for itself.

It did a billion dollars worldwide. Whose to say that less Jar-Jar isn't the reason the other two films brought in less money?

 

[MacLeod]

^I disagree it's a perfectly reasonable defence.

Director of a movie prefers version B of his movie to version A. Sure some films have the original theatricl version and a directors edition. I think the difference is for the majority of the films the studio not the director holds the rights to the film. In the case of SW as Lucas owned Lucasfilm he owned the rights to his movies. So he could choose which version he would rather have out there.

Obviously.

A reasonable defense would be here are the reasons why, here are the advantages, here are the practical considerations. A simple declaration of personal preference is not generally regarded as a sound argument.

You and I might agree or disagree with his position but as long as he holds the rights he can do what he likes with them.

If you read back in the thread I don't think I or anyone else claimed otherwise. What I am discussing is whether that position is beneficial to the history of the films.

I'm not debating which version should be preserved from a hisotical point of view, merely that as long as he has creative control over the films he can do what he likes with them. If we don't like it we can choose not to watch it/ buy it etc..

 

[JarodRussell]

Like boycotting would change anything. People are not unhappy with a product that exists, they are unhappy that a certain product does not exist at all. You can't vote with your wallet on that one. You won't get your local city to invest in busses by not taking the train.

 

[Set Harth]

If anything, Jar Jar probably cost the PT a bit in thwarted repeat TPM ticket purchases.

I know a guy who saw it 9 times, but I know that's not likely to be representative of the general population.

 

[The Old Mixer]

You and I might agree or disagree with his position but as long as he holds the rights he can do what he likes with them.

And we have the right to dislike him for exercising those rights in the manner that he does...hence this thread topic.

 

[J.T.B.]

I'm not debating which version should be preserved from a hisotical point of view, merely that as long as he has creative control over the films he can do what he likes with them. If we don't like it we can choose not to watch it/ buy it etc..

OK, but the post you were replying to in #93 was specifically about the historical aspect.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

If anything, Jar Jar probably cost the PT a bit in thwarted repeat TPM ticket purchases.

I know a guy who saw it 9 times, but I know that's not likely to be representative of the general population.

I saw TPM 13 times when it came out. Granted, I had a theater right by my house at the time and a friend who would get me discount tickets, but still, I saw it a lot of times even with my misgivings about parts of it.

 

[Set Harth]

I think the thrill of there being a new SW film, warts and all, had a lot to do with it.

I like to say I saw it 3 times in the theater, but it might possibly have been 4. I honestly can't remember, but I lean toward 3 because I know specifically where each of those took place.

When the DVD first came out I watched it so many times a family member said, "I think you have a problem".

 

[trevanian]

If anything, Jar Jar probably cost the PT a bit in thwarted repeat TPM ticket purchases. Surely his hugely lessened presence in the following two movies speaks for itself.

It did a billion dollars worldwide. Whose to say that less Jar-Jar isn't the reason the other two films brought in less money?

JarJar didn't do wonders for ancillary stuff either. I was at CINEFEX at the time, and we pushed that issue -- the whole issue was TPM -- up a full month (only time I recall that ever happening there) to get the issue out while the movie was in release. Basically killed the sales on the previous issue by shortchanging it, figuring this TPM would sell out like the TITANIC whole-issue coverage.

Well, the issue did NOT go like gangbusters, even with an extra month on the newsstands, and I think a big reason was the custom cover they did for us -- a JarJar closeup. Man, EVERYbody knew you needed spaceships or a light saber fight on the cover to scream STAR WARS, yet Lucas and ILM did the mag the favor of highrez Jarjar. Blehh!

By way of comparison, the next issue was a MATRIX cover story that did VERY well indeed ... and was a great damn cover of the docbot

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

I love it how everybody talks about Lucas being a savvy businessman but he almost killed the franchise.

When did this happen?

Episode 1 Budget = $115M Box office Domestic $431M/Box Office World Wide Over $1Billion
Episode 2 Budget = $115M Domestic $302M/Worldwide $649M
Episode 3 Budget = $113M Domestic $380M/Worldwide $848M

3 movies that cost a combined total of less than $350M, made $1.5B. Damn, I wish someone would kill my finances in the same manner. The Domestic Box Office alone was enough to make a profit and keep the Franchise alive

Box office does not mean the films were great. The OT is still held in high regard by many--something that began as the films were in theatres. Can anyone say the same of the prequels?

What--exactly--is of any value in the video gamey prequels? The poor characterization? The overdoses of painfully choreographed lightsaber fights which had no heart? Portman's terrible acting? The Jedi made to look like easily fooled dopes?

What?

 

[sidious618]

Lucas did not almost ruin the franchise because fans didn't like the films. They did very well and the property is alive and thriving. Whether you liked the films is irrelevant.

 

[Melakon]

I'm disappointed that Lucas apparently became trapped by his own creation. He tried to do other things, but the only thing that kept the money rolling in was Star Wars. It's a tragedy when compared with his early promise. The student project version of THX-1138 even got mentioned on network news magazines at the time.

 

[Set Harth]

The Jedi made to look like easily fooled dopes?

read: not omniscient