But Batman's supposed to be tall, dark and imposing. Who's going to look at JGL that way, besides maybe Peter Dinklage?
Cast the new Batman
- Thread starter Dark Gilligan
- Start date
But Batman's supposed to be tall, dark and imposing. Who's going to look at JGL that way, besides maybe Peter Dinklage?
People are still confused by this. MoS is set in a different continuity than the Dark Knight trilogy. There is no JGL/John Blake/Batman in the MoS universe. There is only Bruce Wayne. The DK trilogy never happened. Granted, the new MoS Batman will be very, very, VERY similar to Bale's Batman because that's where the money is. But they won't be identical.
If they can get Bale to agree come back then MoS will take place in the same continuity as Nolan's Batman trilogy. If they can't get Bale back then they'll reboot Batman and MoS won't take place in that continuity. Either route is open to them.
I hope not. Over the decades, what's defined Batman is the degree to which he's been reinvented in different eras and adaptations. The Nolan Batman was radically different from the Burton/Schumacher Batman, which was very different from the William Dozier Batman (played by Adam West). In animation, Beware the Batman is extremely different from Batman: The Brave and the Bold, which was extremely different from The Batman, which was somewhat different from Batman: The Animated Series, which was hugely different from the Batman of Super Friends and the two Filmation cartoon series. What makes a new version of Batman worth doing is the novelty of its approach, the addition of a new variation to the theme.
Copies are never as good as originals. If the new filmmakers just try to duplicate what Nolan did, they won't do it as well (even with Goyer involved in both, since the screenwriter has little power or control in Hollywood feature films). What they should do is what their most successful predecessors have done: break with the past and create a new Batman that's uniquely their own. That's what Burton did, that's what Nolan did, and that's what the makers of the best animated shows did. The one precedent we have for a Batman filmmaker staying close to what came before is Joel Schumacher, whose version of Batman was something of a hybrid of the Burton approach and the Dozier approach, and his films are regarded as the franchise's biggest misfires.
Probably, but that's not entirely guaranteed. There are cases of the same actor playing the same character in more than one continuity; here's a TrekBBS thread listing a number of examples. Batman himself is such a character: Adam West has played him in several different continuities ('66 live action, Filmation animation, the Legends of the Super Heroes comedy specials, and the later Super Friends seasons), and so has Kevin Conroy (DC Animated Universe, Nolanverse Gotham Knight anime, Superman/Batman duology, Justice League: Doom, and various video games). Noel Neill played Lois Lane in the '48/'50 Superman serials and reprised the role on TV with a different Superman. Judi Dench has played M in two separate James Bond continuities.
And then there are cases where actors have appeared in multiple incompatible sequels to the same original work -- Christopher Lambert in the various Highlander sequels and the TV series, Don Adams in two Get Smart reunion movies and one revival series (and Barbara Feldon in two of the three) that were all mutually incompatible, etc. Although I guess those don't quite count because they all branch off from a common origin.
I'm not sure if there's ever been a case where the lead actor from one movie series has played the same role in a separate, rebooted one, though. Maybe some of the Universal monster actors who appeared in Abbott & Costello films? Not sure that's the best example.
^^^
If Bale comes back it'll be in the same continuity. It's a no-brainer.
If Bale comes back it'll be in the same continuity. It's a no-brainer.
Warner Brothers is going to look at this strictly from the perspective of profits. That's their job. The Bale/Nolan/Batman raked in a shitload of cash worldwide, and WB isn't going to do anything to disrupt that. Bale is gone; he's stated that emphatically and I take him at his word. So what's WB to do? Continue the interpretation of Batman that has struck the loudest chord with moviegoers, Bale or no Bale. Granted, it will be a different Batman--one who exists alongside super-powered beings--and that may well prove to be a huge difference. Artistically, I hope it does.
Probably, yes. But probability is not absolute certainty. Filmmakers are not always as obsessed with continuity and the borders between different realities as fans on the Internet are. As long as the actor is back, they really don't care what continuity the story is in, because all that matters to them is selling tickets.
If they did bring Bale back, then maybe they'd be ambiguous about it -- allow audiences to assume he was the same guy from the same previous films, but not hesitate to depict the universe in a contradictory way. Most audiences wouldn't notice the discrepancies anyway, and it'd just be us detail-oriented Internet nerds who'd have a meltdown over it.
In any case, I doubt they'll bring Bale back. Sony recast Spider-Man; they didn't feel they absolutely had to bring Tobey Maguire back. And I doubt WB will feel they have to bring Bale back. With a character like Batman, it's the character himself, not the actor, who's the real draw. That's why the Burton/Schumacher series was able to get away with recasting Batman twice. Given that Bale is reluctant to return, they'd have to offer him an insane amount of money to get him back, and I doubt they'd feel the need to do that, given how recastable Batman has proven to be in the past. We will most likely have a new Batman and a new continuity. I'm not going to say that's an absolute certainty, because that's never a wise thing to assume, but I'm confident that it's the most probable outcome.
Yes, and that is why so many movies are bad: because the suits wrongly assume that the way to duplicate a success is to copy its specifics, when what they should really aspire to duplicate is the creativity, originality, and talent that went into it. I'm not saying that it's unlikely things will go the way you suggest; I'm saying that if they do, the result will probably be very disappointing.
If Bale sticks to his guns and doesn't come back it may be the biggest payday an actor has ever turned down.
But that money has already been made. How can future decisions disrupt that?
Christopher said:
I don't know if I would really call that "getting away with it"...
And I, for one, will respect his professional integrity -- while simultaneously being delighted that I don't have to put up with that awful Bat-growl anymore.
Hear, hear.
Bale is not looking at Superman/Batman as a one-shot gig, and neither should anyone else. This will be a multiple film contract. The new Batman is intended to be the Justice League Batman, as well as star in the next Batman film series. WB is taking the long view and Bale knows it.
I second for Jensen Ackles.
They wouldn't sign him for just one film. If that's all he'd agree to they'd opt for a reboot Batman instead. But if he'd agree to a three-film deal to appear in Superman vs. Batman and two Justice League films I have no doubt that they'd leap to sign him up for that, even if it meant delaying further solo Batman films until later down the line. Bale will likely stick with saying no, though, so a reboot Batman it'll be.
It's been stated in no uncertain terms that Nolan's trilogy is finished and won't be connected to or continued by the MoS sequel - or future Batman solo projects - in any way.
In terms of suggestions for who to cast as the new Bruce Wayne/Batman, I'm going to suggest the same people here that I've been suggesting elsewhere:
Milo Ventimiglia
Gael Garcia Bernal
Selwyn Ward
Robbie Jones III
In terms of suggestions that I've seen here or elsewhere, I like Sam Witwer, Jake Gyllenhaal, Ryan Gosling, and JGL. I would've liked to have seen JGL reprise his role as John Blake and just have the MoS world connect to the Nolan Trilogy, but that's not going to happen, so JGL playing Bruce Wayne would be a nice alternative.
In terms of suggestions for who to cast as the new Bruce Wayne/Batman, I'm going to suggest the same people here that I've been suggesting elsewhere:
Milo Ventimiglia
Gael Garcia Bernal
Selwyn Ward
Robbie Jones III
In terms of suggestions that I've seen here or elsewhere, I like Sam Witwer, Jake Gyllenhaal, Ryan Gosling, and JGL. I would've liked to have seen JGL reprise his role as John Blake and just have the MoS world connect to the Nolan Trilogy, but that's not going to happen, so JGL playing Bruce Wayne would be a nice alternative.
And that'll probably turn out to be the case, but things are sometimes stated in no uncertain terms and then reversed.
Emma Thomas just reiterated it as recently as Comic-Con when talking about MoS 2/Batman vs. Superman, and if it hasn't changed up to this point, I don't see why it would, especially since Goyer's apparently been working on the screenplay for the movie since February.
The window when it might change is going to close fast. As I said, I don't think it will change. But I think it would change if the studio could wangle it.
