A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

[137th Gebirg]

There is definitely something going on there - Pate the impersonator (one of the House of B&W assassins maybe?) looking for an Archmaester's key to the Citadel archives, dragonglass candles "working" again, and all around the time of Sam's opportune arrival.

I don't get the impression that it's a red herring at all. In fact, I think this will be a critical piece in the next book, if not the final one. There is a conversation about this going on over at AFoIaF, particularly with the key and where it may lead.

Be warned, there appears to be a lot of spoiler-filled discussion there - I'm assuming, based on some released transcripts from TWoW.

 

[Anwar]

I'm still surprised that Alfie Allen didn't get a nomination in Season 2.

 

[Brendan Moody]

Considering that Sam is at the Citadel, and has fallen in with a crowd that thinks most of the maesters would prefer magic be suppressed, I'm sure we'll hear more about that in The Winds of Winter. I'm pretty curious where Sam's story is going, especially with Jaqen in the mix. He, Sansa, and Aeron Greyjoy are the only characters we haven't had an update on since Feast, either in Dance or in the preview chapters from Winds.

Pate the impersonator (one of the House of B&W assassins maybe?)

That's the same assassin Arya befriended under the name Jaqen H'ghar. The description of the alchemist before he steals Pate's form is the same as what Jaqen transforms into at the end of A Clash of Kings.

 

[CaptainCanada]

I'm still surprised that Alfie Allen didn't get a nomination in Season 2.

Dramas rarely manage two nominations in that category, and Allen was never going to displace Dinklage, particularly since Dinklage had tons of plot and screentime that year.

 

[Dream]

I'm still surprised that Alfie Allen didn't get a nomination in Season 2.

I'm STILL surprised Dinklage didn't win for "Blackwater". That was one of Tyrion's finest movies in the entire series, and Dinklage knocked it out of the park with his acting.

Dinklage will be getting a bunch of great material to work with next year with the Tyrion on Trial storyline. Really looking forward to that.

 

[DalekJim]

Dinklage is good as Tyrion but he's far from the best of the cast. It doesn't help that he shares screentime with Charles Dance, Lena Headey and the underrated Jack Gleeson, who give more nuanced performances. I'm not big on Dinklage's Tyrion accent, I think Roy Dotrice's in the audio books is much more appropriate.

The only actor in the show I find genuinely terrible is whoever plays Shae, I sometimes feel the need to skip scenes she's in. The rest of the cast are all good, and for the most part well suited for their book counterparts. The Roose and Ramsay casting choices don't resemble their character in the books at all, yet were still very charismatic and interesting in their roles.

 

[CaptainCanada]

I'm a fan of what Gleeson does, but I wouldn't really call his performance "nuanced". There's absolutely no nuance to Joffrey. Gleeson does a great job of selling his one-dimensional villainy.

 

[DalekJim]

To each their own,, but I find his performance more interesting and eccentric than Dinklage's posh stiffness.

 

[Venardhi]

I'm a fan of what Gleeson does, but I wouldn't really call his performance "nuanced". There's absolutely no nuance to Joffrey. Gleeson does a great job of selling his one-dimensional villainy.

I disagree. While the character isn't deep, the performance has been at times. Gleeson plays him differently depending on which characters he is interacting with. Around his family he is much more childishly because they still mostly treat him like a child. His confidence turns into empty bravado and attempts at trying to make them respect him. How much of that is actually Gleeson and how much is direction and writing I don't know, but it is there.

 

[Captaindemotion]

I was speaking about the constructed image of black men as frightening

"Constructed"? You mentioned a media case which is currently resulting in violent, savage rioting and looting from the black community in America. Have the white people paid them to do this?

, which leads non-black people to believe that black people are more violent than people of other races.

Well, where I live most of the violent crime is committed by black people. This is because of economics, media agenda, and a cultural climate that does not exist in Westeros though, not their race. I wouldn't expect Summer Islanders to act like the scum in my city, and they don't seem to. Most white people in Westeros are douches too.

I'm sorry, but you are completely wrong on your description of the post-Zimmerman protests. There has been no 'savage rioting and looting' following the acquittal. Right-wing media may have been salivating at the prospect of post-Rodney-King-style rioting but it is well-documented that the vast majority of protests in response to the acquittal have been peaceful

http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-protesters-streets-anger-acquittal/story?id=19665990

Several protesters were arrested this weekend when demonstrators expressed their anger at the acquittal of George Zimmerman in rallies across the nation, although most of the events were peaceful with marchers wearing hoodies, carrying signs and chanting "Justice for Trayvon Martin."

The majority of protests throughout the country were peaceful after the emotionally charged verdict finding Zimmerman not guilty of murder in the 2012 slaying of Trayvon Martin. Police in Oakland, Calif., declared an unlawful assembly with reports of demonstrators' throwing rocks and bottles at police and even attacking journalists, according to ABC News Station KGO-TV. Police estimates put the crowd at about 200 people at its height Sunday.

There has been some violence but hardly 'savagery.' For that sort of adjective, you need to look to where I live in Belfast, where there has been sustained violence by White Anglo-Saxon (or Ulster-Scots) Protestants since last Friday. Much greater violence, committed in greater concentration in a smaller part of the world.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-23334360

Your adherence to stereotypes, quite frankly, shows the same mindset as George Zimmerman - black person = likely criminal - which is quite saddening. Indeed, to use a case where an unarmed black child was shot dead by an armed half-white/half Hispanic man with a criminal record, as an example of black people being violent, is shockingly offensive.

http://insidetv.ew.com/2013/07/17/game-of-thrones-sherlock/

Mark Gatiss cast in Season 4 of Game of Thrones.

Sherlock/Dr Who and Game of Thrones collide!

Mark Gatiss will appear in the fourth season of HBO’s Thrones. The British writer-producer-actor has written Doctor Who novels and episodes of the BBC cult classic, as well as acted on the long-running series (since 2007, he’s credited to three different roles on IMDB). In addition, Gatiss is the co-creator and co-star of another Brit-based favorite, Sherlock, where he plays Holmes’ dryly mysterious brother Mycroft. Now he’s booked on HBO’s fantasy hit next year.

On Thrones he will play …

Well, that’s something we cannot reveal. The Thrones team is keeping Gatiss’ role quiet.

I like Gatiss as a writer and enjoy his performances in League of Gentlemen but I can't take him seriously as a dramatic actor. Even in Sherlock, I'm expecting him to start going 'Fireman!' or some other LOG catchphrase.

I can see him as maybe a Wildling, perhaps the Magnarr of Thenn but I still think that the writers have sort of merged that character with Thormund Giantsbane to form the television version of Thormund. Not sure who else I can see him playing.

 

[DalekJim]

Your adherence to stereotypes, quite frankly, shows the same mindset as George Zimmerman

Yeah, me and him totally have loads in common.

Your adherence to stereotypes, quite frankly, shows the same mindset as George Zimmerman - black person = likely criminal - which is quite saddening. Indeed, to use a case where an unarmed black child was shot dead by an armed half-white/half Hispanic man with a criminal record, as an example of black people being violent, is shockingly offensive.

I don't really get why the case was bought up in this thread in the first place. I've made my opinion of the reaction very clear, and don't wish to give those people any more attention, so it's best we just get back to discussing great fantasy literature and its TV adaptation.

I can see him as maybe a Wildling, perhaps the Magnarr of Thenn but I still think that the writers have sort of merged that character with Thormund Giantsbane to form the television version of Thormund. Not sure who else I can see him playing.

He'd be a good Mace Tyrell, he's good at acting pompous.

 

[137th Gebirg]

I was speaking about the constructed image of black men as frightening

"Constructed"? You mentioned a media case which is currently resulting in violent, savage rioting and looting from the black community in America. Have the white people paid them to do this?



Well, where I live most of the violent crime is committed by black people. This is because of economics, media agenda, and a cultural climate that does not exist in Westeros though, not their race. I wouldn't expect Summer Islanders to act like the scum in my city, and they don't seem to. Most white people in Westeros are douches too.

I'm sorry, but you are completely wrong on your description of the post-Zimmerman protests. There has been no 'savage rioting and looting' following the acquittal. Right-wing media may have been salivating at the prospect of post-Rodney-King-style rioting but it is well-documented that the vast majority of protests in response to the acquittal have been peaceful

Oh...really?
Rolling Crime Wave in Hollywood
Protesters Detained in Victorville Rally
More on Victorville Arrests
Additional Hollywood Rioting
Beating in Baltimore
...and the "well-documented" list goes on and grows every day...

Right-wing media may have been shamelessly "salivating" to see it, but left-wing media has been blatantly blind to its existence. Both sides in this argument are acting stupidly, engaging in bald-faced race-baiting to pander to their own twisted political agendas and I shit on them both.

Do we really need to bog down a fucking GoT thread with this nonsense?

 

[Nagisa Furukawa]

Do we really need to bog down a fucking GoT thread with this nonsense?

Agreed. I thought it was bafflingly inappropriate when the Trayvon Martin case was brought up in conjunction with ASoIaF. Threads exist to discuss George Zimmerman and I don't want to see pages and pages of this thread get filled with Zimmerman conversation to the point where it's as bloated and massive as Tormund's member. Har!

 

[DalekJim]

I read A Song of Ice and Fire to get away from the real world of thugs and their well meaning, yet ultimately dangerous liberal apologists. As a hermit with social anxiety disorder, none of these issues are bound to affect me any time soon, so let's get back to discussing more immediately important matters to my life. Like.. the motivations of Varys, the identity of the Great Other, and Lena Headey's tragic lack of nudity.

bloated and massive as Tormund's member. Har!

 

[Nagisa Furukawa]

the motivations of Varys

You got me. GRRM may still be able to come up with something that neatly fills all the gaps, but I do think he probably changed what he was intending there somewhere along the lines.

the identity of the Great Other

Personally, I don't think there's a R'hllor or a Great Other nor any other god. I think there's some kind of deep-seated magical force in the world that has both ice and fire forms, but there's no sentient deities and ice and fire aren't enemies so much as dual sides of the same coin (both can resurrect, both have means of seeing other times and places via the flames and weirwoods, etc.).

That said, if there IS a Great Other, it mostly certainly isn't Melisandre as some people on Westeros baffling think. Like... we've got a Melisandre POV and know she's genuine in her beliefs, even if a good deal of her arsenal IS just tricks. How they think she's an ice god in disguise, I have no idea...

Lena Headey's tragic lack of nudity.

I think it's probably for the best to keep her covered until the Walk of Shame scene in later seasons. That's such a powerful and raw moment that it'd work best if we were seeing her nude for the first time when all of King's Landing does as well. Headey's done nudity before so I'm hoping she will again because it'll easily be the least gratuitous nude scene GoT's ever done, one that serves as the peak of Cersei's entire character arc of vanity rather than just "Oh, here's a prostitute serving Pod! Titty time!"

 

[Captaindemotion]

"Constructed"? You mentioned a media case which is currently resulting in violent, savage rioting and looting from the black community in America. Have the white people paid them to do this?



Well, where I live most of the violent crime is committed by black people. This is because of economics, media agenda, and a cultural climate that does not exist in Westeros though, not their race. I wouldn't expect Summer Islanders to act like the scum in my city, and they don't seem to. Most white people in Westeros are douches too.

I'm sorry, but you are completely wrong on your description of the post-Zimmerman protests. There has been no 'savage rioting and looting' following the acquittal. Right-wing media may have been salivating at the prospect of post-Rodney-King-style rioting but it is well-documented that the vast majority of protests in response to the acquittal have been peaceful

Oh...really?
Rolling Crime Wave in Hollywood
Protesters Detained in Victorville Rally
More on Victorville Arrests
Additional Hollywood Rioting
Beating in Baltimore
...and the "well-documented" list goes on and grows every day...

Right-wing media may have been shamelessly "salivating" to see it, but left-wing media has been blatantly blind to its existence. Both sides in this argument are acting stupidly, engaging in bald-faced race-baiting to pander to their own twisted political agendas and I shit on them both.

Do we really need to bog down a fucking GoT thread with this nonsense?

The first article you quote is by

Ben Shapiro is Editor-At-Large of Breitbart News and author of the New York Times bestseller “Bullies: How the Left’s Culture of Fear and Intimidation Silences America” (Threshold Editions, January 8, 2013).

. Forgive me for not taking him seriously.

The second one says that

Police arrested 17 people in Victorville, a city outside of Los Angeles, after protesters tried to storm a shopping mall and a group of youths opened items at a gas station market and left without paying, authorities said.
Most of the arrests were for unlawful assembly

The majority of protesters in Victorville - about 80 of them - remained peaceful and obeyed the law during a rally in the desert city, Bachman said.

This is savagery? Unlawful assembly? 17 arrests?

Third article is the same story.

Fourth article:

Police emphasized that most of the protesters were peaceful. But there have been several splinter groups from the main protest that have been more aggressive, officials said.

Final story:

Baltimore police say they are investigating a witness account that a group of black youths beat a Hispanic man near Patterson Park Sunday while saying, "This is for Trayvon."
A witness posted the account on a community Facebook page, and police confirmed they are looking into whether the suspects' reaction to the verdict in the Florida trial of George Zimmerman played a part in the incident. A police report on the beating does not mention the alleged comments.

Reports on Facebook, really? How reliable. Note that the police report doesn't even mention the comments. Linking this to Trayvon protests is tenuous as best.

Fair enough, I don't want to dereail the ASOIAF of thread but I defy you to find any protest or series of protests, held by white, black or other people, right-wing, left-wing or whatever, where there won't be a few assholes to let everyone else down. I acknowledged in my previous post that there had been violence in these protests, I reiterate that this falls well short of savagery. In Belfast, we've had blast bombs, petrol bombs, nail bombs, police attacked with samurai swords, clubs etc. THAT is savagery.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/galleries/news/belfast-riots-july-2013-29431189.html

I just hope it doesn't scare HBO off coming back here for future GOT.

 

[137th Gebirg]

Fair enough, I don't want to dereail the ASOIAF of thread but I defy you to find any protest or series of protests, held by white, black or other people, right-wing, left-wing or whatever, where there won't be a few assholes to let everyone else down.

You miss my point, and fuck your faux high-minded "defiance". I don't give a shit because both sides are WRONG in this.

And, too late, you've already derailed the thread with this puerile political bullshit.

All I care about (here) is GoT. Period.

 

[Captaindemotion]

^That's a constructive attitude. Go you.

Not quite sure how posting 5 links about 'news stories' is consistent with only caring about GOT, but whatever...

 

[DalekJim]

You got me. GRRM may still be able to come up with something that neatly fills all the gaps, but I do think he probably changed what he was intending there somewhere along the lines.

I think it's pretty unfair to expect his entire gameplan not to have changed since 1996, so I'm not gonna pissed at him for changing gears slightly. I do hope we get an adequate explanation though as it struck me as very strange seeing Varys act like that upon my re-read.

Personally, I don't think there's a R'hllor or a Great Other nor any other god.

I think it'll be left somewhat ambiguous, but I see the conflict of Ice and Fire that Melisandre sees as so relevant to the grand scheme of the series that it can't all be bullshit.

 

[Captaindemotion]

There has to be some explanation for resurrecting Dondarrion and Cat, for one thing, which at present only R'hllor offers. And the conflict of fire and ice, well, it's kinda in the title!