I dunno, I think Jon is AAR/TPTWP, but I don't think it'll be as simple and expected as him becoming King of Westeros. My guess is he'll die (after coming back, natch) not knowing his heritage or doing anything about it.
A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion
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I dunno, I think Jon is AAR/TPTWP, but I don't think it'll be as simple and expected as him becoming King of Westeros. My guess is he'll die (after coming back, natch) not knowing his heritage or doing anything about it.
^ oh yeah, I'd actually love to see Jon/Dany getting together! But I don't see GRRM going down that route. Then again, he might just surprise us.
The problem I have with Jon embracing his Targ heritage is, who is there to prove it for him? IIRC, the only survivor of the confrontation we've been assuming to be the aftermath of his birth is Howlin Reed. I can't see the nobles of Westeros hailing Jon as king on the say-so of 'a frog-eater.'
The problem I have with Jon embracing his Targ heritage is, who is there to prove it for him? IIRC, the only survivor of the confrontation we've been assuming to be the aftermath of his birth is Howlin Reed. I can't see the nobles of Westeros hailing Jon as king on the say-so of 'a frog-eater.'
The funny that about this is that the craziest historical Targaryens have tended to emerge following periods of non-inbreeding. The "Mad King" had 50% fresh genetic material (though we aren't told who Jaehaerys II's queen was, just that he married for love). Likewise, there were a spate of sons and grandsons of Daeron II who had mental issues, but Daeron's wife was a Martell.
I've always thought that the frozen corpses (corpsicles?) in the Wall might be another place that Jon's soul could "flee" to for a spell. Can't really see any other purpose for them at this point, since they didn't re-animate or do anything else on the Westeros side of the Wall before getting stuck on/in ice.
Cheers,
-CM-
True - I'm not a geneticist, but I'm thinking that would imply that the "crazy gene" is recessive and only re-emerges precisely when new DNA is introduced. Perhaps if there are actual genetics specialists around they may be able to tell us if such things happen in the real world.
Due to the inherently magical nature of the wall, being able to repel other magical things (like Coldhands not being able to go through it), that may not be possible. The wall itself might block Jon's attempt at warging, although it needs to be determined if that is in fact a magical endowment, or if it happens to be an actual natural physiological trait of humans in this world of a non-magical nature.
I think the series will end with the iron throne being destroyed, the game of thrones finally finishing. I'd be disappointed if we got anything as simple as Jon or Dany on the throne after defeating the evil Others. ASOIAF is usually more complex than that.
I don't know if we can look too closely to the Targ interbreeding for an explanation of anything. IIRC, Martin has admitted that genetics aren't his strongpoint. In this continuity, all Baratheons have black hair and all Targs have purple eyes and silvery hair; it's not really like real-world genetics apply.
I could see the final scene showing two luminous beings, the Red God and the "Other (Blue?) God", sitting on opposite sides of a massive chess board, or possibly the intro scene "map machine", with one of them tipping over a small playing piece that resembles a miniature Iron Throne in the area of the map that resembles King's Landing, with the other looking smug, almost akin to the Greek gods playing games with humans on Mount Olympus.
We're constantly seeing war maps and wooden pieces being pushed around in the show. May be just nifty prop work, or possibly some greater foreshadowing. Not really sure right now.
Heh...not in a while, but yeah...like that. 
May seem a pedantic point but not ALL Targs have purple eyes and silver hair. Princess Rhaenys took after her Dornish mother not Rhaegar in appearance and Baelor Breakspear in The Hedge Knight also doesn't look traditionally Targ (or traditionally Valyrian). A minor point but an important one given how many times I've heard "But how can Jon be a Targaryen if he's got brown hair?"
I finally finished my A Song of Ice and Fire re-read today with A Game of Thrones.
One thing that struck me is that the first book is really fucking fast paced compared to the rest. Every chapter is important and moves the plot along, the prose is much simpler, more focused and functional, a huge chunk of the characters are together in the story so it has a simpler structure, and there's way less detail given on historical events/background characters. It's a much simpler novel than what followed, focusing on a very easy, digestible conflict between the Starks and the Lannisters.
Think the book is a classic, but I'd say I prefer Martin's writing style in A Clash of Kings, A Storm of Swords and A Feast for Crows. In those books he gave much more detail, was slower, and concentrated more on atmosphere. I actually hate using numbers to score things, but I'm in a lazy mood today so I'd rate the series:
A Game of Thrones - 9/10
A Clash of Kings - 10/10
A Storm of Swords - 10/10
A Feast for Crows - 9/10
A Dance with Dragons - 7.5/10
Books 2 and 3 are arguably the best fantasy I've ever read, Book 4 improved HUGELY on a re-read, and ADWD was obviously several drafts away from completion.
Love this series. Gonna check out George R.R. Martin's other novels next, and fantasy-wise I've started Joe Abercrombe's The Blade Itself.
One thing that struck me is that the first book is really fucking fast paced compared to the rest. Every chapter is important and moves the plot along, the prose is much simpler, more focused and functional, a huge chunk of the characters are together in the story so it has a simpler structure, and there's way less detail given on historical events/background characters. It's a much simpler novel than what followed, focusing on a very easy, digestible conflict between the Starks and the Lannisters.
Think the book is a classic, but I'd say I prefer Martin's writing style in A Clash of Kings, A Storm of Swords and A Feast for Crows. In those books he gave much more detail, was slower, and concentrated more on atmosphere. I actually hate using numbers to score things, but I'm in a lazy mood today so I'd rate the series:
A Game of Thrones - 9/10
A Clash of Kings - 10/10
A Storm of Swords - 10/10
A Feast for Crows - 9/10
A Dance with Dragons - 7.5/10
Books 2 and 3 are arguably the best fantasy I've ever read, Book 4 improved HUGELY on a re-read, and ADWD was obviously several drafts away from completion.
Love this series. Gonna check out George R.R. Martin's other novels next, and fantasy-wise I've started Joe Abercrombe's The Blade Itself.
There's that, and there also appears to be a clue in the whole Baratheon/Lannister "The Seed is Strong" aspect, where any time a dark-haired individual is introduced into the mix, the blond gene seems to go dormant and the offspring always has dark hair. That was what both John Arryn and Ned Stark had discovered while researching the family lines.
So, if Jon is, in fact, the offspring of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark (who was said to have had dark hair and resembled Arya) as many people think, Jon's dark hair is easily explained through that lineage.
It makes me feel very sorry for Cat, always having to live with the false belief that Jon was Ned's bastard son, that tore her up inside for years. Ned should have told her - straight up. She would have taken the secret to her grave.
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Not all, just some, otherwise the Targaryen look wouldn't have survived at all. Dany's direct ancestors include an Arryn (the first wife of Viserys I) and a Martell (Daeron II's wife), but they had blonde children.
Re Cat not being in on the parentage thing - I've always assumed that Lyanna made Ned swear to tell nobody, not a soul. Most men would have confided in their wives - espcially if the alternative was a likely cold shoulder for adultery - but Ned would have obeyed his oath to the letter.
As far as I recall, the Targaryens were simply one of many highborn Valyrian families but lucked out in being the only one (the only one with Dragons at least) to survive The Doom.
Not to mention that when Ned came back from the Tower of Joy, he didn't even know her that well. By the time of AGoT could he have trusted her with that secret? Absolutely. But when Jon was born, there was no way of knowing she could be trusted and then how do you break it to her years later, "BTW I've been lying to you for 14 years."
It also keeps Cat safe if she genuinely doesn't know. Not bringing her in on it, which would be considered treason in Robert's eyes, would keep her safe if the truth ever was discovered. Just her knowing could endanger the whole situation as, though she may have tried to feign it, it would be hard to be as genuinely cold to Jon as she was before knowing the truth. If she changed how she acted, even in subtle ways, that could start to unravel the whole thing.
So yeah, it was shitty to lie to Cat (and to Jon himself, of course), but even if Lyanna didn't specifically tell him to (which she may well might have), it was absolutely the right choice to never speak this truth aloud.
It also keeps Cat safe if she genuinely doesn't know. Not bringing her in on it, which would be considered treason in Robert's eyes, would keep her safe if the truth ever was discovered. Just her knowing could endanger the whole situation as, though she may have tried to feign it, it would be hard to be as genuinely cold to Jon as she was before knowing the truth. If she changed how she acted, even in subtle ways, that could start to unravel the whole thing.
So yeah, it was shitty to lie to Cat (and to Jon himself, of course), but even if Lyanna didn't specifically tell him to (which she may well might have), it was absolutely the right choice to never speak this truth aloud.
I thought that the Baratheon had Targaryen blood from a marriage. That was what Robert used to legitimize his claim to the throne. So you would have Stannis, Jon and Daney with the same blood, the blood of kings to create the triumvirate that is Azor Aha. They talk about the three headed dragon and everyone thinks it equates with the three dragons of Daney but what if its actually the three with Tagaryen blood.
I'm thinking it will be the dragon (Jon) has three heads (positions): the Lord Commander of the Night's Watch, King in the North (via Robb's will) and maybe King on Iron Throne (without actually sitting on the Throne; heavily doubt he leaves the North alive before the series ends) or something else for the third.
As to your, maybe all three will be AAR, well true, Stannis does have some Targ blood, but the Ghost of High Heart said the Prince That Was Promised will specifically come from the line of Rhaella and Aerys, which fits both Dany and Jon but not Stannis.
Didn't the Lannisters also have Targaryen/Valyrian blood? I thought that was why they had lighter hair than all the other noble families.
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