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Orson Scott Card "Please don't boycott my film!"

Lapis Exilis said:
I'm not one for confusing the art and artist - Picasso was a misogynistic prick, but that doesn't make his paintings bad. Card's not exactly going to use the money he makes from Ender's Game to go on any anti-gay rights campaigns, so I don't see the point of a boycott based on his personal opinions about homosexuality. If you only partook of art created by people whose every single thought and opinion you agreed with, we'd all have a very limited selection of art to chose from.
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I've been thinking about this a bit ... and ... well, I don't want to be overly flippant, but I think it's easier to disassociate artist from art when the artist is dead. For starters, appreciating a Picasso painting is different than purchasing a Card book or a ticket to a movie based on one of his books. Also, any money spent to appreciate a Picasso (say, at the Met), isn't going to subsidize his life and any objectionable things he might subsequently do with that subsidy. Perhaps once Card has moved on, and provided his estate isn't bequeathed to groups based on his current views, I think more people will be willing to at least give his work a chance - based on its inherent merits, and not on the detriments of its artist.
 
Has Card already been paid for the rights to his work?

If so, boycotting the film does nothing to him and only "hurts" others that may not even share his views.
 
M'rk said:
Has Card already been paid for the rights to his work?

If so, boycotting the film does nothing to him and only "hurts" others that may not even share his views.
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As I mentioned above, a successful film still gives legitimacy to his work - and can drive further sales of his book. So in a way, paying for a ticket to the film, helping it succeed, increases the chances for Card to benefit financially, even if he doesn't have a percentage stake in the film.
 
Presumably, everyone who worked on the film has already been paid. Anyone important enough to be compensated by points on the gross won't be hurt if the movie bombs. If it bombs, though, the major studios might think twice before adapting another one of Card's novels to the screen.

Considering the organizations Card openly supports, I'd say this is a good thing. Others might disagree.

On the merits of the book, I enjoyed it when I was in middle school (it probably helped that I was ignorant of the bile Card regularly spews about gay people). Like many things I liked when I was 12 and 13, however, it's probably not as good as I remember. Card's public views haven't exactly sped up my interest in revisiting it, either.
 
M'rk said:
What about the people that worked on the film that actually do have a stake in the success of this film?
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Ah, the whole Death Star II workers gambit. Well played.

Or, perhaps, the only people whose financial stake in the film are the ones who are (should have been) aware of Card's activism. I'm pretty sure the Key Grip has already been paid for the work, as well as just about everyone in the production who didn't provide some financial investment.
 
^^^
A box office bomb can ruin careers after as well. Actors, directors, and so on.

Again, if it's a bad movie, that's one thing. But to condemn everyone else for "crimes" not committed by them is something else entirely. Movies are as collaborative a medium as the word can allow.
 
M'rk said:
^^^
A box office bomb can ruin careers after as well. Actors, directors, and so on.

Again, if it's a bad movie, that's one thing. But to condemn everyone else for "crimes" not committed by them is something else entirely. Movies are as collaborative a medium as the word can allow.
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As I've said before, the film's performance will, more than likely, be due to the skill of its filmmakers - director, actors, editor, etc., than due to how people feel about Card. But even so, they all signed on, willingly, to the project. If they didn't know beforehand that Card's positions were objectionable, that's on them.
 
Samuel Walters said:
If they didn't know beforehand that Card's positions were objectionable, that's on them.
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Doing a job professionally while also not researching the political and religious beliefs of someone you probably aren't even interacting with is somehow their fault?

You wouldn't know to look for this unless you were told to look for this. If not for these sites (of which I'm sure not many in Hollywood post in), I'm sure many here didn't even know about all of the controversy.
 
M'rk said:
^^^
A box office bomb can ruin careers after as well. Actors, directors, and so on.

Again, if it's a bad movie, that's one thing. But to condemn everyone else for "crimes" not committed by them is something else entirely. Movies are as collaborative a medium as the word can allow.
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Guys like Ford and Kingsley will be fine. So will the young actors involved. Wood directed X-Men Origins: Wolverine. If that didn't kill his career, he might be bullet proof. Card's listed as a producer on IMDB. Though that might be a courtesy.
 
M'rk said:
Doing a job professionally while also not researching the political and religious beliefs of someone you probably aren't even interacting with is somehow their fault?

You wouldn't know to look for this unless you were told to look for this. If not for these sites (of which I'm sure not many in Hollywood post in), I'm sure many here didn't even know about all of the controversy.
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Again, anyone with a financial stake in the success of this film has the obligation to do their due diligence before signing on. Everyone else, from lighting to cinematography, has already been paid for their efforts. Aside from Card, if the film bombs, and in particular if it bombs because of a boycott*, that will only impact a very select few people - the ones who are obligated to understand what they are investing in.

The only careers at stake are those of the director and producers (and even then, one bomb is rarely the kiss of death). I'm pretty sure Harrison Ford and Asa Butterfield will survive should the film underperform.

* And once more, the most likely reason the film might underperform will be because it's not a good film, and not because people object to Card's politics and actions.
 
Lapis Exilis said:
I'm not one for confusing the art and artist - Picasso was a misogynistic prick, but that doesn't make his paintings bad. Card's not exactly going to use the money he makes from Ender's Game to go on any anti-gay rights campaigns, so I don't see the point of a boycott based on his personal opinions about homosexuality.
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You don't think he hasn't contributed to National Organization for Marriage, an anti gay marriage organization, the same organization he sits on the board of? Whatever money he HAS contributed came from the money he's earned... so... yeah, he will go on an anti-gay rights campaign.

If you only partook of art created by people whose every single thought and opinion you agreed with, we'd all have a very limited selection of art to chose from.
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I'm getting a little bored of this point. It keeps coming up over and over. I'm not doing a check list of artists to see that they agree with me 100% on things. But, when I see that they are ACTIVELY campaigning against equal rights for my friends and family, fuck that. I see no reason why I should continue to contribute money to that art.

If I weed out the bigots from the art that I see and read and hear, there still will be a WHOLE lot of art to see and read and hear.
 
Sindatur said:
<SIGH>Those not defending Card have repeatedly stated that he has the right to say anything, there is no hint in this thread of Americans wanting to abridge or legislatively penalize Card for his statements. It's all Private and Capitalism, no Legal barriers have been suggested, except by those who are arguing against judging him personally, but no one judging him personally is suggesting any Legal abridgement
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Well, they have to make up something to argue against, because otherwise the notion of avoiding a film as a matter of personal conscience, that helps to deepen the pockets of an outspoken, self promoting, hatemongering activist is about as uncontroversial as it gets.

I wonder if we'd see the same level of indignation if Fred Phelps decided to write a movie, and people didn't want to go see that? I somehow doubt it. Why Card gets a free pass, and his opponents demonised, I don't really know.
 
Difference between writing something people enjoy and then later coming out as a douchebag, and someone that's already a hated douchebag trying their hand at something.

Card got people to like his work BEFORE they disliked him as a person. If they already hate you, harder road to success :)
 
Pingfah said:
Sindatur said:
<SIGH>Those not defending Card have repeatedly stated that he has the right to say anything, there is no hint in this thread of Americans wanting to abridge or legislatively penalize Card for his statements. It's all Private and Capitalism, no Legal barriers have been suggested, except by those who are arguing against judging him personally, but no one judging him personally is suggesting any Legal abridgement
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Well, they have to make up something to argue against, because otherwise the notion of avoiding a film as a matter of personal conscience, that helps to deepen the pockets of an outspoken, self promoting, hatemongering activist is about as uncontroversial as it gets.

I wonder if we'd see the same level of indignation if Fred Phelps decided to write a movie, and people didn't want to go see that? I somehow doubt it. Why Card gets a free pass, and his opponents demonised, I don't really know.
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DalekJim said:
I question Fred Phelps's sci-fi writing pedigree.
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I question your ability to actually address anyone's arguments head on for once. From the start (and in the previous thread on Card) you've done nothing but grossly misrepresent the arguments of those that disagree with you and paint yourself as the beleaguered defender of free speech rights that NO ONE here is trying to take away from Card.

In fact the only one who has advocated for denying anyone's rights is Card himself, so it's especially hypocritical and humorous to see so many up at arms about his rights NOT being threatened when he actively donates to and coordinates organizations that seek to deny civil rights (and have successfully denied them in California and Maine and elsewhere) and has advocated for armed rebellion against any government the legalizes same-sex marriage and the imprisonment of homosexuals ("a genetic mistake") for simply living their lives and not harming anyone.

How about instead of crying wolf about liberals every other post you instead get up at arms about that? This shouldn't even be an exclusively liberal issue as you've painted it. Conservatives used to believe in small government and staying out of people's private lives, right? Well, that's the storybook version anyway, but reality didn't always live up to the hype, with some notable exceptions. So, why not oppose Card's actions on those grounds?

I don't even care if you go see the movie or not or speak out strongly in favor of gay rights. But at the very least stop martyring Card and yourself on the altar of free speech rights that no one is actually threatening to take away, because it's childish and petty and disingenuous. And while you're at it, why not try responding to someone's argument honestly without sidestepping the issue or building a huge strawman in the process? You are capable of doing that, right?
 
I don't see what that has to do with what I wrote at all. I was addressing Pingfah's question as to why people would care less if Fred Phelps wrote a movie. I firmly believe it's because Fred Phelps isn't an acclaimed sci-fi writer, and has zero experience in the genre.

Though I am aware this view may be controversial.
 
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