Orson Scott Card "Please don't boycott my film!"

[IndyJones]

During the whole homophobes should not be allowed to write Superman comics, I followed a link to that group, and then on their site I followed a link to their tax returns.

They play with less than 3 million dollars a year, and only a third of that is earmarked for actual lobbying.

Well, they *are* losing. Their donors are turning off the spigots. But here's their 2011 tax form, it shows receipts of $7.2 million in 2011, down from $9.6 million the year before.

 

[Professor Zoom]

You're being just mean enough.

For about 5 minutes I thought he was Lex Luthor buying the white house, but it turned out that Orson was only Cluemaster knocking over a bakery. If you want to hate him for how he thinks, that fine, but don't be afraid of his "power" becuase Mr Card has very very little.

Who said I'm afraid of his "power"? It's a lovely straw man, but, simply put, I don't want even a cent of my money going towards something I don't believe in.

And before certain people get their feathers in a bunch, screaming, "but that probably happens with a lot of things you buy..." Yes, sure, but I don't KNOW... with Card, I do.

I'm not giving him any of my money.

 

[Harvey]

During the whole homophobes should not be allowed to write Superman comics, I followed a link to that group, and then on their site I followed a link to their tax returns.

They play with less than 3 million dollars a year, and only a third of that is earmarked for actual lobbying.

Well, they *are* losing. Their donors are turning off the spigots. But here's their 2011 tax form, it shows receipts of $7.2 million in 2011, down from $9.6 million the year before.

$7.2 million is still a lot of money to see funneled into a hate group like that. It's not hard to imagine the good that money could be spent on instead. Hopefully, though, the downward trend continues, and the faster the better.

 

[TheMasterOfOrion]

Orson Scott Card did not say "don't boycott MY film!", its not his film to start with, its the film of Viola Davis, the film of Harrison Ford, the film of the studios....but its not just Cards film. Orson Scott Card would not have said MY film, which is a falsehood. Card is crazy but he's not stupid enough to claim the whole film to be his, these films by their nature are adaptations based on written works.

A boycott is wrong. Orson Scott Card was an idiot, and hardliners in the LGBT community are being very stupid. The LGBT community already caused madness and banning during the whole Silence of the Lambs fiasco, it only helped the movie be even more successful.

I kinda knew something like this was coming after reading Ender and hearing he was Mormon church goer and getting hints of his political opinion. I have read all kinds of silly political opinions in Hollywood with Adam Baldwins or Rosie'Donnells there are so many nutty people there, just because someone says something offensive I'm not going to suddenly start boycotting and burning all those FullMetalJacket and ALeagueofTheirOwn dvds or boycotting all StarTrek bluray dvds because someone in the family said something I don't like.

There are just so many crackpots in Hollywood and I wish they would keep thier mouths shut but they don't. Politics should be in one section, the books, comics, movies entertainment in the other section. Keep them separate or at least Card and others like him should learn to shut their yaps. However the audience should also learn to separate the political opinion of one person and the opinion of the whole studio.

I've enjoyed both the Ender books and the Alvin books. They are among my favorites. I also like a lot of Heinlein's work, even the ones that wear their politics on their sleeves. More so in my twenties than now. Maturity might be a factor there. Also some of the idea are so farout you can't take them too seriously.

exactly these works are just pieces of art and entertainment

How is the morality on stealing his movie through torrents?

I don't think there is any

Nothing stops a boycott quite like giving it more attention in the press

The Silence of the Lambs boycott only promoted the movie more and helped the movie sell even more tickets
Personally I prefer the whole dignified approach to supporting gay rights like say Jodie Fosters activism, rather than the radical aggressive approach you see from some LGBT activists.

I think you're limiting yourself for no real reason. I can enjoy films from Russian communist filmmakers or even a Nazi director like Leni Reifenstahl. I can listen to Wagner, Burzum, etc.

I worry sometimes modern liberalism makes a virtue of being offended. I assure you that Ender's Game has nothing to do with homosexuality.

Some people are programed today are way too over-sensitive on everything, programed by their radios and tvs to re-act at the slightest thing offensive. Somebody draws a funny cartoon in the middle east and all of a sudden you have mobs of muslims attacking Americans and burning down European embassies. The media spreads rumors of looting after a Hurricane and all of a sudden everyone gets freaked out with their guns ready to shoot anything that moves near their house. Silly Interest groups and their 'thought-police' have a good profit in creating hysteria, it promotes their stupid agenda, helps them generate more publicity.
Boycotting Ender won't do anything, it will do nothing at all for gay rights and Ender has nothing against homosexuality, there might be an argument for it doing something controversial like promoting "child-soldiering" but Ender itself has nothing against gays.
If LGBT community are to politically attack anyone they should fire on Card himself but attacking the movie is a waste of time and stupid.

I can separate the artist from the art.

Can you really?

But Card is a whiny little bitch, so fuck him and his movie.

I'm not a fan of Card's political opinions either but its the studios movie, its Summit studios, its Lionsgate, its Harrison Ford, its Viola Davis and its not just his movie . There are hundreds maybe thousands involved in its production

The hardline wacky political crap in California is just nuts,
the hardline gay community won't just be boycotting Orson Scott Card,
they will be boycotting Ben Kingsley, KR Clements, Robert Chartoff, Gavin Hood, Viola Davis, Harrison Ford and hundreds of sound engineers, hundreds of visual fx artists, set designers, and no doubt boycotting hundreds of others who stood up for gay rights

I listen to funk and hip-hop artsist, guys who were on coke, assaulted people, were DUI, had illegal firearm possesion, shot at cops, went to jail many times....however I will still listen to their art because art is just that, its not their political opinion or their life. Same with Richard Wagner he lived with fascism all around him during the German Nazi era, however Wagner's music was just music and people can listen to it today without being accused of supporting fascism.

Orson Scott Cards stupid opinion is just that....its just his stupid opinion
and it does not reflect the opinion of the whole studio or the hundreds of others who worked on the movie

 

[Awesome Possum]

I can separate the artist from the art.

Can you really?

Yes. My main deserve to not see the movie is lack of interest.

But Card is a whiny little bitch, so fuck him and his movie.

I'm not a fan of Card's political opinions either but its the studios movie, its Summit studios, its Lionsgate, its Harrison Ford, its Viola Davis and its not just his movie . There are hundreds maybe thousands involved in its production

The hardline wacky political crap in California is just nuts,
the hardline gay community won't just be boycotting Orson Scott Card,
they will be boycotting Ben Kingsley, KR Clements, Robert Chartoff, Gavin Hood, Viola Davis, Harrison Ford and hundreds of sound engineers, hundreds of visual fx artists, set designers, and no doubt boycotting hundreds of others who stood up for gay rights

I listen to funk and hip-hop artsist, guys who were on coke, assaulted people, were DUI, had illegal firearm possesion, shot at cops, went to jail many times....however I will still listen to their art because art is just that, its not their political opinion or their life. Same with Richard Wagner he lived with fascism all around him during the German Nazi era, however Wagner's music was just music and people can listen to it today without being accused of supporting fascism.

Orson Scott Cards stupid opinion is just that....its just his stupid opinion
and it does not reflect the opinion of the whole studio or the hundreds of others who worked on the movie

I don't care. I have no desire to see the movie, I don't care if my brother starred in it.

 

[DalekJim]

A boycott is wrong. Orson Scott Card was an idiot, and hardliners in the LGBT community are being very stupid. The LGBT community already caused madness and banning during the whole Silence of the Lambs fiasco, it only helped the movie be even more successful.

The dumbest thing about that reaction was that in the movie's dialogue it was made clear Buffalo Bill wasn't a transsexual.

Another case of people seizing a chance to foster an extreme emotional reaction, despite knowing nothing about the subject.

 

[Avon]

side 1: i don't want to see this movie because i don't want to fund OSC's homophobia.

side 2: not going to see this film makes you 'intolerant of bigotry' and also somehow this is censorship

which side are you?

also, for this You Lose:

I think somebody should be allowed to openly bash gay folks

in other words ''i think somebody should be allowed to persecute a minority''

 

[DalekJim]

I think somebody should be able to openly bash whoever they want to. I also think people should only use quotation marks when using a quote.

 

[Avon]

I think somebody should be able to openly bash whoever they want to. I also think people should only use quotation marks when using a quote.

the quote was in a quote box and as it had your name in it i thought it obvious that was the direct quote. however i have added more words to clear that up.

you think 'bashing' a minority for being a minority is perfectly fine?

how very morally reprehensible.

if you say ''ooh that just whiny liberal political correctness'', no it's not, its called having a sense of decency.

you say you're entitled to that opinion sure, but i'm entitled to call you on it and lgbt people are entitled to have a life without constant hate being thrown at them by people like Card.

 

[Guy Gardener]

You're doing that shit Cordelia did in King Lear DJ.

She died waiting for someone to decode her elite pompous twaddle.

Are you saying that anyone should have the right to say anything, but everyone should have the good sense not to be a complete fucking asshole?

Self regulation, rather than fear of punishment.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

"Creating the Innocent Killer: Ender's Game, Intention, and Morality"

Over the years I have told a number of friends that, if I had had access to a nuclear device when I was in seventh grade, there would be a huge crater in upstate New York centered on what used to be West Seneca Junior High School.

Had Orson Scott Card’s novel Ender’s Game existed then, I might have been one of its biggest fans. I would have been enraptured by the story of the innocent who is persecuted despite his innocence, perhaps even because of it. The superior child whose virtues are not recognized. The adults who fail to protect. The vicious bullies who get away with their bullying. That was the world as I saw it in seventh grade. Apparently this is a story that still appeals to many people: Ender’s Game is probably the most popular science fiction novel published in the last twenty years.

In relating Ender Wiggin’s childhood and training in Ender’s Game, Orson Scott Card presents a harrowing tale of abuse. Ender’s parents and older brother, the officers running the battle school and the other children being trained there, either ignore the abuse of Ender or participate in it.

Through this abusive training Ender becomes expert at wielding violence against his enemies, and this ability ultimately makes him the savior of the human race. The novel repeatedly tells us that Ender is morally spotless; though he ultimately takes on guilt for the extermination of the alien buggers, his assuming this guilt is a gratuitous act. He is presented as a scapegoat for the acts of others. We are given to believe that the destruction Ender causes is not a result of his intentions; only the sacrifice he makes for others is. In this Card argues that the morality of an act is based solely on the intentions of the person acting.

"Orson Scott Card Has Always Been..."

On the phone and in his incoherent published reply, Card repeatedly shows ignorance of what he himself purportedly wrote. I simply cannot imagine how you could write such a stunningly well crafted piece of work (inasmuch as it is wildly popular and deeply affects people) without being aware of every fibre and splinter of its composition. About the third or fourth time I heard Card say something wasn't in his book that I knew was, I began to suspect that it was more of a committee effort.

Notice that even John Kessel distances himself from the Hitler Hypothesis even though he draws many of the same conclusions Elaine does. Card manages to sound very convincing when he says Hitler was never on his mind and that it's Elaine who has the Hitler obsession; I think he's so convincing because he wasn't in on the joke himself. Elaine's essay may have been as much a revelation to him as it was to anyone else.

I've seen Elaine's notes and heard Card on the phone, and there is no doubt in my mind that the Hitler Hypothesis is correct; it is simply impossible that Ender's Game and Speaker were written by someone who did not have a very detailed knowledge of Adolph Hitler's life. There are very exact parallels in there that you wouldn't even notice unless you read the footnotes to the most detailed Hitler biographies. I also tend to believe that Card does not have that level of knowledge about Hitler. Ergo, it is very hard for me to believe that he wrote the books. The assumption that he did not explains a great many otherwise mysterious things.

Once Elaine blew their cover, the committee might have decided the game was up and left Card out to dry. This would be why it took years for him to get around to finishing the story, and why when he did many of his fans complained it was inferior to his earlier work.

 

[DalekJim]

you think 'bashing' a minority for being a minority is perfectly fine?

No, I think it's dumb. I just think people should be allowed to think, feel or say whatever they like.

You're doing that shit Cordelia did in King Lear DJ.

She died waiting for someone to decode her elite pompous twaddle.

Alright.

Are you saying that anyone should have the right to say anything, but everyone should have the good sense not to be a complete fucking asshole?

I think Orson Scott Card has the right not to support gay marriage, and me believing he has that right doesn't mean I agree with him.

A huge chunk of society don't agree with my views on marriage, as I believe in polygamy. If I boycotted everybody's work that thought marriage should only be between two people, I wouldn't be watching many movies, reading many books, or listening to many musicians. Orson Scott Card's views on marriage are probably closer to most people's than my own, as he only believes marriage should be between two people.

 

[Nagisa Furukawa]

"Orson Scott Card Has Always Been..."

I simply cannot imagine how you could write such a stunningly well crafted piece of work (inasmuch as it is wildly popular and deeply affects people) without being aware of every fibre and splinter of its composition.

Sorry, but no. With very rare exceptions, the creator isn't some genius mastermind who knows every single detail perfectly. A good deal of writing and storytelling is instinctual and tapping into images and moments with such relevance that many different people can read into it and find new things about it, connecting the work to other mythology or, indeed, history.

I've seen Elaine's notes and heard Card on the phone, and there is no doubt in my mind that the Hitler Hypothesis is correct; it is simply impossible that Ender's Game and Speaker were written by someone who did not have a very detailed knowledge of Adolph Hitler's life. There are very exact parallels in there that you wouldn't even notice unless you read the footnotes to the most detailed Hitler biographies. I also tend to believe that Card does not have that level of knowledge about Hitler. Ergo, it is very hard for me to believe that he wrote the books.

Wait. So lemme get this straight.

Since the author finds the Hitler/Ender parallels SO STRONG (I don't see 'em personally, but whatever), the fact that Orson Scott Card doesn't have an intricate knowledge of Hitler... means that therefore Orson Scott Card did not write Ender's Game.

Hey, everybody! You can call off the boycott! The homophobe didn't even write the work being made into a movie.

Amazing that such crackpot nonsense is being linked to.

 

[DalekJim]

Hey, everybody! You can call off the boycott! The homophobe didn't even write the work being made into a movie.

I find it incredibly sinister that in the name of "tolerance", people would even try to insinuate an artist didn't create their own work.

As for the Hitler part, it's probably the dumbest thing I've read all week.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

I think somebody should be able to openly bash whoever they want to.

This is correct. A person should be able to say whatever they want about whomever they want. A person does not have the right, however, to be free of the consequences of saying whatever they want about whomever they want.

If Orson Scott Card wants concentration camps for gay men and women, if he wants governments that allow gay marriage to be violently overthrown (both positions he has advocated), he's free to say these things. I don't have to like that he says them, I'm free to disagree with them, and I don't have to financially support his work.

In short, Card's words have consequences. In asking people to tolerate his intolerance, he's acknowledging that his words have had consequences. He's also acknowledging that he doesn't intend to change.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

With very rare exceptions, the creator [doesn't know] every single detail perfectly. A good deal of writing and storytelling is instinctual...

I don't know who told you that, but you've made completely incorrect inferences from whatever you were told, heard or read.

In any event, the points made don't have anything to do with "every single detail" but with major events and themes of the book.

 

[DalekJim]

This is correct. A person should be able to say whatever they want about whomever they want. A person does not have the right, however, to be free of the consequences of saying whatever they want about whomever they want.

Agreed 100%.

With very rare exceptions, the creator [doesn't know] every single detail perfectly. A good deal of writing and storytelling is instinctual...

I don't know who told you that, but you've made completely incorrect inferences from whatever you were told, heard or read.

In any event, the points made don't have anything to do with "every single detail" but with major events and themes of the book.

I've been at book signing events where authors were asked questions and gave awkward, embarrassingly incorrect answers. It's not rare at all.

 

[YJAGG]

never read it ( I know shame on me) did read the sumary and to me honest - 20 plus years later - meh

unless it's a crappy movie and they want all the hardcore right wingers to come and support it, by alienating gays... but I do marvel at the irony of intolerance for the intolerent

 

[Sindatur]

you think 'bashing' a minority for being a minority is perfectly fine?

No, I think it's dumb. I just think people should be allowed to think, feel or say whatever they like.

You're doing that shit Cordelia did in King Lear DJ.

She died waiting for someone to decode her elite pompous twaddle.

Alright.

Are you saying that anyone should have the right to say anything, but everyone should have the good sense not to be a complete fucking asshole?

I think Orson Scott Card has the right not to support gay marriage, and me believing he has that right doesn't mean I agree with him.

A huge chunk of society don't agree with my views on marriage, as I believe in polygamy. If I boycotted everybody's work that thought marriage should only be between two people, I wouldn't be watching many movies, reading many books, or listening to many musicians. Orson Scott Card's views on marriage are probably closer to most people's than my own, as he only believes marriage should be between two people.

You are absolutely right, Card has the right to bash anyone he wants and espouse any vile thoughts he wants, and to actively lobby for legislation against any specific group he wats to. He also has the right to be punished by society from people ignoring his work. Yes, he can't be legally shut up, he has the right voice his views, no matter who doesn't like it, and I would fight for his right to do so.

However, many people are fond of the expression, "you do not have the right to not be offended", that isn't quite true, you absolutely have the right to be offended and to not listen to what he has to say on anything (Wether that be the Wether, or Anti-Gay slurs or a SciFi novel).

So, yes, he has the right to speak, but, not the right to be heard by those offended by what he says.

 

[Sindatur]

never read it ( I know shame on me) did read the sumary and to me honest - 20 plus years later - meh

unless it's a crappy movie and they want all the hardcore right wingers to come and support it, by alienating gays... but I do marvel at the irony of intolerance for the intolerent

Who's being intolerant of Intolerance? no one has stated he doesn't have a right to say garbage, I will fight for his right to say garbage, even against me. And if people are irrespopnsible with that right, Society levies consequences against them, but, nobody is trying to stop him from saying such things, so there is no intolerance of his intolerance.