STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

[James Tiberius Kirk]

Just got back from seeing it, and I have rather mixed feelings. One one hand, it was reasonably coherent and altogether pleasant action movie, and I was liking it early on. But as the film progressed, I couldn't really stomach the odd sort of 90% TWOK, 5% TUC and 5% TNG evil admiral of the week pastiche it became, complete with lines and scenes lifted essentially verbatim.

I think the story of a rogue Section 31 agent out for revenge against a corrupt admiral would have been far more interesting than a retread of Khan. While it was interesting to see some of the stuff from TWOK reinterpreted, I really don't think that much of it works outside of TWOK's thematic framework. Spock's death in TWOK is very nicely played against the underlying discussions of aging and mortality that pervade the movie, whereas Kirk's 5-minute pseudo-death seems to come from a need to keep the stakes high and shoehorn in the gratuitous TWOK reference.

In the end, I think Into Darkness' biggest failing, in some ways carried over from ST '09, is that everything has to be HUGE and FAST, which makes it very difficult for anything to have much impact. Kirk having to face the reality of death rings somewhat hollow if he hasn't gone around for 20 years cheating it. Khan's appearance is essentially just a namedrop if none of his unique aspects as a character have time to develop. It feels to me like Abrams and co are attempting to use an emotional shorthand through references to the past films and pastiche, rather than having genuine character development, and I think that's a shame. I think this film had potential, but it shouldn't have been burdened with trying to be TWOK.

 

[throwback]

For me, after having read the comics, I am puzzled about the connection between Countdown to Darkness to this film. The connections between the prequel comics to the first film were better established.

They set up interesting threads that could have been explored in this film. Sulu was contacted by Section 31 in one comic - why wasn't that exploited for this film? And, in another comic, Kirk blundered into a top secret project hatched by Section 31.

I wouldn't be asking these questions, if Robert Orci wasn't involved with the comics.

 

[Belz...]

For me, after having read the comics, I am puzzled about the connection between Countdown to Darkness to this film. The connections between the prequel comics to the first film were better established.

I had the same thought. Even before seeing the movie, I doubted the connection would be as well-made as the previous movie's.

 

[JarodRussell]

For me, after having read the comics, I am puzzled about the connection between Countdown to Darkness to this film. The connections between the prequel comics to the first film were better established.

They set up interesting threads that could have been explored in this film. Sulu was contacted by Section 31 in one comic - why wasn't that exploited for this film? And, in another comic, Kirk blundered into a top secret project hatched by Section 31.

I wouldn't be asking these questions, if Robert Orci wasn't involved with the comics.

The audience would have been so confused they would have all gotten seizures.

 

[AnnLouise]

My girlfriend, who has become a big Trek fan in the last few years, has stated before that she never felt the emotional connection to ships as a lot fans do (except perhaps for DS9), and was always more emotionally invested in the characters and stories. Here, were the Enterprise was crashing, she told me she was talking to herself and going 'please don't crash her'. The first time she ever called a ship 'her'.

Yep, the small subset of female ST fans who consider the ship the real star of the series. Myself included. I got upset watching STWOK on BR this weekend when Spok showed the damage from Khan's first attack!

 

[throwback]

I don't think the audience would have been confused. The younger generation would have been familiar with examples like the Mass Effect video game franchise, where a character introduced in a novel is given a role in a game.

The studio was attempting to spruce up interest in this film before it premiered through the comics, the video game, and several sites. I think the attempt failed because the pieces weren't well connected, and it didn't help that the video game was universally panned.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

It would have been absurd for them to carry important story points from the comic book into the movie, and would have unnecessarily confused a good portion of the audience.

Comics and other merchandising exist to make money for the studio. Ideally the comic attracts interest to the movie, but it's not the job of the filmmakers to support the comic.

 

[throwback]

Using what I have seen before, have a character mentioned briefly that Section 31 was looking into recruiting Sulu into their organization. Then, have Sulu accept a role into this organization, and, while he is in there, have him find the truth. Sites which are dedicated to finding these Easter Eggs would inform readers, "Hey, in such-and-such comic, this recruitment was first brought up." The film becomes a tie-in into the comics. People who buy the comics might become more interested in the rest of the franchise. A little promotion of other products doesn't hurt.

The thing about Kirk stepping on S31's toes is that it was curiosity that brought him to Beta III to investigate the rumors of a lost Federation starship. Curiosity is akin to the drive for exploration.

(We saw this in the latest film, where they did a mention to the Mudd Incident and to the Gorn mother, which reference the comics and the video game, respectively. If I wasn't as informed about Star Trek as a I am, I think I would find these references confusing.

And about important story points, how many story points were raised in the comics that were later important to the story in ST 09?)

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Sites which are dedicated to finding these Easter Eggs would inform readers, "Hey, in such-and-such comic, this recruitment was first brought up." The film becomes a tie-in into the comics.

Meaningless to 99 percent of moviegoers and a waste of the film's running time.

 

[Ovation]

Using what I have seen before, have a character mentioned briefly that Section 31 was looking into recruiting Sulu into their organization. Then, have Sulu accept a role into this organization, and, while he is in there, have him find the truth. Sites which are dedicated to finding these Easter Eggs would inform readers, "Hey, in such-and-such comic, this recruitment was first brought up." The film becomes a tie-in into the comics. People who buy the comics might become more interested in the rest of the franchise. A little promotion of other products doesn't hurt.

The thing about Kirk stepping on S31's toes is that it was curiosity that brought him to Beta III to investigate the rumors of a lost Federation starship. Curiosity is akin to the drive for exploration.

(We saw this in the latest film, where they did a mention to the Mudd Incident and to the Gorn mother, which reference the comics and the video game, respectively. If I wasn't as informed about Star Trek as a I am, I think I would find these references confusing.

And about important story points, how many story points were raised in the comics that were later important to the story in ST 09?)

You were confused by a couple of throwaway lines? Why?

 

[Belz...]

(We saw this in the latest film, where they did a mention to the Mudd Incident and to the Gorn mother, which reference the comics and the video game, respectively. If I wasn't as informed about Star Trek as a I am, I think I would find these references confusing.

Why ? Noodle incident, that's all.

 

[throwback]

I was not confused by the Mudd Incident nor the Gorn. I am an avid Star Trek fan. I have read however that some are confused by the reference to Khan.

Debating with Admiral Buzzkill is like having a debate with a Teabagger in an irrational reality bubble. It's a waste of time.

Belz,

People have curiosity, or they did. I read that showing people do computer searches (Googling) is a novelty that has worn out its welcome, so why bother showing it? Maybe for you and that other fellow (AB) asking questions and following threads and doing hypothetical thought exercises is a waste of time, but for someone like me, it's fun. Or it would be, if there wasn't such latent hostility against it.

People might not like my tone, but I do feel that there is something unpleasant in your remarks. And, please don't give me the line - what we say is not who we are. The thoughts come from your mind, and if they didn't come from your mind, where they did come from then?

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Debating with Admiral Buzzkill is like having a debate with a Teabagger in an irrational reality bubble. It's a waste of time.

Well, that was wholly unnecessary. Infraction for flaming. Comments to PM.

 

[Belz...]

Belz,

People have curiosity, or they did. I read that showing people do computer searches (Googling) is a novelty that has worn out its welcome, so why bother showing it? Maybe for you and that other fellow (AB) asking questions and following threads and doing hypothetical thought exercises is a waste of time

You misunderstand. I simply meant that including references to things outside the story is a common occurance, and perfectly fine. It gives the impression that the world is bigger than what you just see in the movie or series or novel, and that's a good way to immerse the viewer or reader.

 

[mattman8907]

i keep thinking about when the Enterprise-A, B, C, D and E will be introduced in JJ's timeline if JJ's Enterprise stays around through 2293 (about the same time that the prime E-A was decomissioned) would the prime Universe's Enterprise-B be the alt reality Enterprise-A? and would that make Picard's Enterprise the Enterprise C?

 

[Opus]

What if Spock Prime says, "I've made a vow I wouldn't reveal information about the future and allow your timeline to unfold as it should. That said... the letters after the registry number was a dumb idea..."?

 

[Therin of Andor]

i keep thinking about when the Enterprise-A, B, C, D and E will be introduced in JJ's timeline if JJ's Enterprise stays around through 2293 (about the same time that the prime E-A was decomissioned) would the prime Universe's Enterprise-B be the alt reality Enterprise-A? and would that make Picard's Enterprise the Enterprise C?

The JJ Enterprise is only new. Maybe it'll last another 70-odd years?

 

[throwback]

If starship registries are roughly chronological, and that is a big if, then it is possible that there could be 200 hundred year old ships in operation. I am thinking of the Heart of Gold, which had a registry of NCC-42. I think a ship that old would have gone through so many refits that it might not even be the same ship in the 2160s.

 

[Shazam!]

i keep thinking about when the Enterprise-A, B, C, D and E will be introduced in JJ's timeline if JJ's Enterprise stays around through 2293 (about the same time that the prime E-A was decomissioned) would the prime Universe's Enterprise-B be the alt reality Enterprise-A? and would that make Picard's Enterprise the Enterprise C?

I doubt this universe will get that far. Maybe Enterprise-A at the end of the third film or something.

 

[Belz...]

If starship registries are roughly chronological, and that is a big if, then it is possible that there could be 200 hundred year old ships in operation. I am thinking of the Heart of Gold, which had a registry of NCC-42. I think a ship that old would have gone through so many refits that it might not even be the same ship in the 2160s.

Heart of Gold ? Which episode ?