STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

I want to see women on the screen yes, and I prefer to see more rather than less. I'd love to see a Trek movie where the women were dominant and there were only a couple men and we were all discussing whether there needed to be more strong males in the film.

 

[Pauln6]

Absolutely, as I said elsewhere I want a woman like Louise Fletcher or Polly Walker as an enemy. We could get that next film too, there could be two enemies. I'm thinking Kirk will have an enemy that he needs to unthaw Khan to help fight.

Polly Walker is AMAZING!

I'm surprised that people think Uhura eclipsed McCoy in the movie. I thought he had a greater screen presence than her. It seemed to me to be equivalent to the Kirk/Spock/McCoy/Rand dynamic from season one.

 

[gornsky]

Pauln6 wrote:

For me this is about equality, not for the characters but for the actors. In almost all professions you could sue for damages if you were refused a job on the grounds of your sex. Acting gets a pass because, with a few exceptions, it would be silly for a woman to sue because she didn't get the part of a male character. The sexism comes in because they don't write parts for women in the first place.

Sure, good point.

Action movies certainly do skew male. It's a shame that the excellent precedent set by Alien somehow didn't carry the momentum forward.

Action movies do seem to be getting more and more female characters, but they tend towards the gorgeous, buxom kick-butt Boris Vallejo variety of mens' fantasies. Not as much variation as you get with male heroes.

For all that I am happy with the male cast we already have, and I wasn't too fussed either way about Carol Marcus (would prefer her screen time going to Bones, Sulu or Chekov) I did think Alice Eve was an awesome chick, heaps of fun on the interview circuit and should make a fun addition to the cast (as long as it doesn't degenerate into both Kirk and Spock with girlfriend troubles )

As someone said upthread, Admiral Marcus could easily have been a female character.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Absolutely, as I said elsewhere I want a woman like Louise Fletcher or Polly Walker as an enemy. We could get that next film too, there could be two enemies. I'm thinking Kirk will have an enemy that he needs to unthaw Khan to help fight.

Polly Walker is AMAZING!

I love you.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

I'm surprised that people think Uhura eclipsed McCoy in the movie. I thought he had a greater screen presence than her. It seemed to me to be equivalent to the Kirk/Spock/McCoy/Rand dynamic from season one.

He had greater screen presence, I agree. He just doesn't have greater lines. Most of it was crabbiness. Kind of a cardboard McCoy, not that he wasn't great. Sounded like McCoy, LOOKS like McCoy.. Saldana really is just meh to me, she's nice and all but "presence" is not a word I'd use to describe her. I did like her psyching herself up to talk to the Klingons though, that was well done.

 

[Amaris]

What I like about the movie is that everyone gets a chance up front, in the spotlight. There are no minor players amongst the lead cast. Everyone gets a chance to shine.

 

[gornsky]

What would qualify for you as discussion about "the meat that makes a movie?" Certainly I feel as if I've been talking about nothing else for 4 weeks.

Just character and story, mostly. There has been some discussion on here, don't get me wrong. I was using a broad brush. I just didn't like what seemed like pages and pages of other stuff. I'm sorry if I offended anyone.

My impression is that the early white noise around this movie (not here, but all over the net) is a whole lot of fanboys with their knickers in a knot because it's not the same enough, and also, it's not different enough. Peoples' initial impressions -- be they shock or awe. Some egomaniacal creeps trying to SPOIL everyone and a lot of commentary about perceived plot holes.

Once the crazy peoples' attention span is exhausted, the die-hards will probably settle down to dissect the film with greater depth and intelligence. Fortunately, I think there are enough character notes to keep us going for... 4 years or so.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

What I like about the movie is that everyone gets a chance up front, in the spotlight. There are no minor players amongst the lead cast. Everyone gets a chance to shine.

You mean like that time Chekov had a silent freakout during his one big shining moment?

 

[Yorkshire Niner]

What I like about the movie is that everyone gets a chance up front, in the spotlight. There are no minor players amongst the lead cast. Everyone gets a chance to shine.

I'd agree with that. Sulu was perhaps a little too comfortable in the chair though.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

What would qualify for you as discussion about "the meat that makes a movie?" Certainly I feel as if I've been talking about nothing else for 4 weeks.

Just character and story, mostly. There has been some discussion on here, don't get me wrong. I was using a broad brush. I just didn't like what seemed like pages and pages of other stuff. I'm sorry if I offended anyone.

My impression is that the early white noise around this movie is a whole lot of fanboys with their knickers in a knot because it's not the same enough, and also, it's not different enough. Peoples' initial impressions -- be they shock or awe. Some egomaniacal creeps trying to SPOIL everyone and a lot of commentary about perceived plot holes.

Once the crazy peoples' attention span is exhausted, the die-hards will probably settle down to dissect the film with greater depth and intelligence. Fortunately, I think there are enough character notes to keep us going for... 4 years or so.

This thread is full of depth and intelligence. And butt.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

What I like about the movie is that everyone gets a chance up front, in the spotlight. There are no minor players amongst the lead cast. Everyone gets a chance to shine.

I'd agree with that. Sulu was perhaps a little too comfortable in the chair though.

Sulu is a stand out surprise to me. EXCELLENT.

Hopefully next movie he puts in a call earthside to his grandpa, as played by George Takei.

 

[gornsky]

I'm surprised that people think Uhura eclipsed McCoy in the movie. I thought he had a greater screen presence than her. It seemed to me to be equivalent to the Kirk/Spock/McCoy/Rand dynamic from season one.

He had greater screen presence, I agree. He just doesn't have greater lines. Most of it was crabbiness. Kind of a cardboard McCoy, not that he wasn't great. Sounded like McCoy, LOOKS like McCoy..

^^^ Exactly!

 

[Amaris]

What I like about the movie is that everyone gets a chance up front, in the spotlight. There are no minor players amongst the lead cast. Everyone gets a chance to shine.

You mean like that time Chekov had a silent freakout during his one big shining moment?

Both the shock of wearing a red shirt, and the final battle Engineering scenes were hilarious.

I'd agree with that. Sulu was perhaps a little too comfortable in the chair though.

Who knows? Maybe one day he'll have his own command.

 

[Tiberius Jim]

Question to any non-US members: when you saw the film, was the scene with the father waking up to his alarm the first scene, or was it Kirk and McCoy on Nibiru? I swear the Nibiru scene came first before the title card, and then the scene with the father waking up...but a friend of mine claims it was the opposite. I'm wondering if the scenes were for some reason reversed in other countries?

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Pfft.. of course it was Nbiru. Your friend is remembering a trailer methinks. And I'm in Australia.

 

[Tiberius Jim]

He's from the UK, I wonder if it was specific to that country? He said the Enterprise's bridge...sound...sort of morphed into the alarm going off during the Paramount/Skydance/Bad Robot cards.

 

[brian577]

Time to offer up my opinion. For the first 2/3rds of the movie I was having a great time, thought it was leagues better than 09. The opening scene with the volcano was exciting and Kirk violating the PD to save a species from extinction, classic Trek. I didn't even mind that the Khan was in the movie and figured at some point he would become an ally if not at the very least an anti-hero...then Scotty shoots him the back and he's evil again, so much for that and so much for new ideas.

Still I could let that slide, what I couldn't was the brazen way JJ turned the last 3rd of the movie into WOK 2.0. Lines, scenes all remade. Spock's KHAAAN just made the whole scene an even bigger mockery Every last bit of goodwill that had been built up for the last 2 hours was gone and I just wanted it to end.

Maybe I shouldn't be comparing ItD to the prime universe movies. They are separate entities after all. But I'm being forced to make this comparison because JJ and his crew chose to make this comparison. A movie should never make you recall a better film. Until that last half hour I was ready to call this a great film and consider it worthy of the Star Trek name now I can't do that because it only makes me think of WOK and how much better it is.

At this moment I can't really say how I would rate the movie other than it was a great movie brought down by a misguided homage (or ripoff) depending on your interpretation.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

He's from the UK, I wonder if it was specific to that country? He said the Enterprise's bridge...sound...sort of morphed into the alarm going off during the Paramount/Skydance/Bad Robot cards.

Someone will check in soon enough and tell you I'm sure

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Time to offer up my opinion. For the first 2/3rds of the movie I was having a great time, thought it was leagues better than 09. The opening scene with the volcano was exciting and Kirk violating the PD to save a species from extinction, classic Trek. I didn't even mind that the Khan was in the movie and figured at some point he would become an ally if not at the very least an anti-hero...then Scotty shoots him the back and he's evil again, so much for that and so much for new ideas.

Still I could let that slide, what I couldn't was the brazen way JJ turned the last 3rd of the movie into WOK 2.0. Lines, scenes all remade. Spock's KHAAAN just made the whole scene an even bigger mockery Every last bit of goodwill that had been built up for the last 2 hours was gone and I just wanted it to end.

Maybe I shouldn't be comparing ItD to the prime universe movies. They are separate entities after all. But I'm being forced to make this comparison because JJ and his crew chose to make this comparison. A movie should never make you recall a better film. Until that last half hour I was ready to call this a great film and consider it worthy of the Star Trek name now I can't do that because it only makes me think of WOK and how much better it is.

At this moment I can't really how I would rate the movie other than it was a great movie brought down by misguided homage (or ripoff) depending on your interpretation.

I was very very very upset initially about the Khaaaan scene and my word to describe my first viewing was "underwhelmed". Go a second time Chem, I am on my third viewing now and I have not only forgiven the bits that bothered me, I'm embracing them.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Question to any non-US members: when you saw the film, was the scene with the father waking up to his alarm the first scene, or was it Kirk and McCoy on Nibiru? I swear the Nibiru scene came first before the title card, and then the scene with the father waking up...but a friend of mine claims it was the opposite. I'm wondering if the scenes were for some reason reversed in other countries?

The nine-minute 3D trailer preceding "The Hobbit" was promoted as "the opening scenes of the movie" and began with London, followed by Nibiru.

We had a last minute spare ticket at our IMAX screening and she took it up. But it completely floored me that out of the blue, she is wanting to go and see it AGAIN!

We've converted another one, gornsky, or do you think maybe it was Mr Cumberbatch who did it?