STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

I think the Wallace bit was a nod to hard core TOS fans. I liked it.

I believe that Marcus lost control of Khan the moment Khan was captured since Kirk did the right thing by going to Qonos instead of shooting it. Given Marcus' statement as you talk to him, Marcus was expecting a fight when he arrived not, Kirk telling him why he is there.

But surely he lost control of him before Khan blew up the meeting Marcus was in?

 

[Squiggy]

Starfleet may not have experienced terrorism in its history. (This is uncertain.)

There is terrorism against Starfleet in Enterprise.

And the whole "Vulcan isn't there anymore" aspect of things.

I meant ordered the London bomb. I'm going to assume that Marcus lost control of Khan by the time Khan blew up the meeting. But I'm still confused as to when he actually lost control of Khan if Marcus was behind the London bombing.

I think the meeting was part of the plan. Blow up the "archive" that apparently only high (above Admiral Pike) ranking personel knew about. That got all the command staff of all the ships in the sector in one room. KHAN kills them, "misses" Marcus, gets away and Marcus is left to militarize Starfleet to combat the recent tragedies.

That's probably also why they didn't bust Kirk back down to cadet. Keep him on Enterprise so Khan can take him out at the meeting.

 

[ProwlAlpha]

My take on the plan, was Marcus was counting on Kirk's shoot first ask question later style due him knowing about him from Pike. It was all Marcus' plan up until Marcus got word that Khan was captured, so the plan changed to the Vengeance destroying the Enterprise due to Kirk's "involvement" with Khan. At least we didn't get a Bond-style premature obit of the Enterprise quoted by Marcus.

My overall opinion of the movie, it didn't have a TWOK feel nor a Space Seed feel, I got the Dreadnought novel vibe going on, and I liked it, it was very appropriate for this timeline.

 

[TommyW]

I meant ordered the London bomb. I'm going to assume that Marcus lost control of Khan by the time Khan blew up the meeting. But I'm still confused as to when he actually lost control of Khan if Marcus was behind the London bombing.

Pretty sure the Starfleet meeting was only a couple of hours at most after the London bombing? Hence Marcus saying "by now, some of you will have heard about the bombing in London".

I thought it was established that Khan basically blew up that building because he knew a Starfleet meeting would be called and that gave him a chance of killing Marcus

 

[KirkusOveractus]

I saw it in IMAX 3D last night and it was simply awesome! The visuals were spectacular, the acting was fantastic (Cumberbatch was insanely good, and the Enterprise crew has a chemistry that juet feels right).

The audience actually clapped and cheered when Harrison said his real name, as well as a huge applause when Nimoy appeared on screen.

This film, to me, actually eclipses 2009 a little due to the feel and pacing of it, and I absolutely LOVE the 2009 movie!

A couple of things:

-For those who feel that the soundtrack is pretty much the same, I suggest you listen to both soundtracks - although there are some similarities to 2009, it is virtually a completely different soundtrack.

-For those who said that the scene leading up to Kirk in the warp core was word for word taken from TWOK, I suggest you go back and watch TWOK. A couple of lines were the same, but it was in no way word for word the same.

 

[Start Wreck]

I am unclear as to what point Marcus lost control of Khan.

Yep, me too. Either I missed something, or it was badly explained. Which part of the plan was whose? Or which parts were unplanned?

The way I read it initially was that Marcus unthawed Khan purely so he could work on his weapons/war strategies. Khan wanted his crew back, but Marcus wouldn't allow it, so Khan blew up the datacentre and attacked the captains' conference, then escaped, knowing that Marcus would retaliate by firing his torpedoes at Khan on Kronos (presumably this wouldn't kill them, if they were still alive). But that raises the question, if Khan could hide his crew in the torpdoes, why would he not just unthaw them? He must have had access, he did it in secret, but he couldn't unthaw them? Actually, doesn't he say that he didn't know if they were even alive? That doesn't make sense, then.

So, second possible scenario: Marcus planned the bombing and the attack, Khan was following his orders. He wanted an excuse to launch at attack on Kronos because he wanted to provoke a war with the Klingons in order to force Starfleet to become more military-focused. Khan wasn't denied access to his frozen crew but he did secretly put them in the torpedoes because he ultimately wanted to double-cross Marcus and take control himself. Of course, this means Khan would have to assume that Marcus would double-cross Khan by trying to kill him with torpedoes, and this also means that Marcus intentionally let himself get fired upon at the captain's conference, which seems pretty reckless to me.

Third possible scenario is somewhere inbetween: the bombing was Marcus's idea but the attack at the conference wasn't. Firing the torpedoes was a genuine act of revenge.

Or the fourth possibility, which, as the film was unfolding, I genuinely thought would happen: everything was Marcus's plan. He planned the bombing, he planned the attack, he put Khan's crew in the torpedoes as a way to secretly deliver them back to Khan without Starfleet knowing about it, with the ultimate goal of... well, that's where I don't have an answer. They could have gone with "he wanted Khan and his men to provoke the Klingons into a war", but there must be easier ways of doing that!

Did Marcus even WANT to provoke a war? He sends Kirk to bomb Kronos because he wanted the Klingons to blame Kirk for it. He purposely suggested a stealth attack so as to NOT provoke a war, even after Kirk suggested just going straight to Kronos anyway.

Quite honestly, I can't figure out either Marcus or Khan's motives in this film, beyond vaguely wanting power for themselves. It's as if there HAD to be a certain sequence of events, certain things had to happen, but they couldn't find a convincing way to make it happen, so it's just glossed over with woolly motives.





Can anyone explain this? Was I not paying attention?

 

[Tom Servo]

The critics are not universally praising this thing.

Wired magazine just chimed in.

I love how you people find the few reviews that didn't fully enjoy the movie and go SEEE SEE?!! WE'RE RIGHT! It's hilarious.

 

[Chu'lak]

I, for one, am going to love seeing Bernd's head exploding over the next month.

THE NEW SHIPS ARE NO BIGGER THAN THE OLD ONES. THAT SHOT WHERE THE VENGEANCE'S ENGINEERING HULL WAS THE SIZE OF ALCATRAZ ISLAND WAS A MISTAKE. ALL THE SETS ARE MISTAKES. ALL THE CG ARE VFX ERRORS. THAT CARGO HOLD SCOTTY RAN ACROSS WAS REALLY THE SIZE OF A BROOM CLOSET.

This is why i love the internets

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

I love this movie. I gave it an A+ but I'm amazed you can say TWOK was not well acted and limited.

Well, it is limited in ways that I pointed out. They didn't have a lot of money or time, and the script itself was to some extent dictated by Montalban's availability (hence the fact that he and Shatner never have a scene together on the stage).

I didn't say it wasn't "well acted." I said that most of these guys are better actors than those guys, and several of them have more opportunity to demonstrate it in this one.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

The critics are not universally praising this thing.

Wired magazine just chimed in.

Who gives a shit? I've seen it, the reviews are meaningless now.

 

[gornsky]

I have this question to ask. In our contemporary world, when the nation's capital is put on alert, there is an increased emphasis on the air traffic routes being monitored and suspicious aircraft are immediately tagged and interceptors are sent. In the film, I would presuppose that San Francisco and Paris and other major cities with Federation buildings are placed on alert and there is an increase in vigilance. So, is it explained in the movie how Khan was able to pilot a gunship that close to the conference room in an effort at assassinating several members of Starfleet?

That is a good question and really the one big plot hole in the movie for me. Who knows, maybe they were busy issuing 3oz and under tubes of toothpaste for everyone?

Based on the dialogue in the movie, Khan's ship wasn't a gunship, it was a little jump ship with no warp capability. Spock was surprised that a terrorist would commandeer such a ship. So it doesn't sound like the kind of craft that would raise an alert.

Remember, there are little jump ships flying all over the place in the 24th century, issuing an alert in San Franciso for this ship after the archive bombing in London would be the same as issuing an alert for cars in Canberra after the Boston Marathon bombing. I've seen people complain that Khan was just able to shoot up the meeting without there being any response, but Pike immediately calls for air defense and there are about 5 ships there within about a minute.

But it was all over so quickly.

 

[SalvorHardin]

I, for one, am going to love seeing Bernd's head exploding over the next month.

THE NEW SHIPS ARE NO BIGGER THAN THE OLD ONES. THAT SHOT WHERE THE VENGEANCE'S ENGINEERING HULL WAS THE SIZE OF ALCATRAZ ISLAND WAS A MISTAKE. ALL THE SETS ARE MISTAKES. ALL THE CG ARE VFX ERRORS. THAT CARGO HOLD SCOTTY RAN ACROSS WAS REALLY THE SIZE OF A BROOM CLOSET.

I imagined him saying all that while going like this

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=zvRB5OzdyyM[/yt]

 

[SSOASS]

THAT CARGO HOLD SCOTTY RAN ACROSS WAS REALLY THE SIZE OF A BROOM CLOSET.

Yeah

http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Simo...uch-Star-Trek-Darkness-He-Threw-Up-37571.html

Well, you mentioned the bay of the Vengeance, where you’ve got the challenge of running across this place that really does feel like it’s the inside of an airplane hangar. When you go in there, what’s your reaction when you see the space you’re gonna have to jog across so many times?

Pegg
Yeah, it was immense. It’s always very important to J.J. that we are surrounded by physicality, that we’re never really relying on too much green screen. Certainly from my experience in the film, there was very little green screen work done. We always had some kind of physical prop around us and we were always in touch with some solid object, you know, and that set that was down at hangar in West LA, which is essentially a gigantic warehouse that people use if a sound studio is not big enough. That was all there and when it was lit up, when the kind of emergency lights were flashing. It was insane. It was 100 meters long, it was like half a mile. It was ridiculous. I ran it three times, sprinted it as fast as I possibly could, and it was extraordinarily fun.
Q
Fun and not completely exhausting?

Pegg
Oh, I threw up after the third one because I’d only just had my dinner. We were doing a night shoot and I kind of...

J.J. has this thing where he makes you want to do your very best all of the time. He never demands it of you. He never kind of like plays any game in asking for it. He never even physically asks you to do it, but you always want to do your best for J.J., because it’s J,J,. So, I ran faster than I’ve run since I was a kid and broke the land speed record. All of the crew applauded and I felt really good about myself, because, you know, I’m the oldest of the crew members and then J.J. said, “That was great, Simon. Would you do it again,” and I was like, “Yeah, yeah, just give me one minute.” Then I kind of got my breath back and I did it again and then I did it again and then I had excuse myself and go throw up.

 

[gornsky]

In the new universe Spock appears barely to tolerate Captain Douche, and on the event of his life being saved in a volcano by his ‘friend’ cannot wait to get back to Starfleet and let them know that the poor Niburuians are too busy worshipping the great nacelled Kirk in the sky to bother with this evolving crap.

No apologies, no mitigation, just under the bus you go you Kibyashi-maru cheating, apple-eating, drink driver from Iowa.

So to go from this to Why Is Water Streaming Down My Face, does, in the words of Original McCoy, not compute.

You really did quite spectacularly miss most of the movie.

 

[SSOASS]

I have this question to ask. In our contemporary world, when the nation's capital is put on alert, there is an increased emphasis on the air traffic routes being monitored and suspicious aircraft are immediately tagged and interceptors are sent. In the film, I would presuppose that San Francisco and Paris and other major cities with Federation buildings are placed on alert and there is an increase in vigilance. So, is it explained in the movie how Khan was able to pilot a gunship that close to the conference room in an effort at assassinating several members of Starfleet?

That is a good question and really the one big plot hole in the movie for me. Who knows, maybe they were busy issuing 3oz and under tubes of toothpaste for everyone?

Based on the dialogue in the movie, Khan's ship wasn't a gunship, it was a little jump ship with no warp capability. Spock was surprised that a terrorist would commandeer such a ship. So it doesn't sound like the kind of craft that would raise an alert.

Remember, there are little jump ships flying all over the place in the 24th century, issuing an alert in San Franciso for this ship after the archive bombing in London would be the same as issuing an alert for cars in Canberra after the Boston Marathon bombing. I've seen people complain that Khan was just able to shoot up the meeting without there being any response, but Pike immediately calls for air defense and there are about 5 ships there within about a minute.

But it was all over so quickly.

I might be overly nit picky on this, I guess my comparison is 9/11 and how all normal traffic (in our case foot, car, helicopters, commercial planes) was diverted away from sensitive targets. I would have thought they would have done the same thing.

But it is not a real big deal, the key point was Pike was killed (I admit to hoping he was badly wounded and would end up beeping once or twice), Kirk got the ship back, gave him an emotional reason to go after Kahn, plus the scene itself was cool.

 

[Opus]

Caught it last night.

Effing Amazing! Great action movie with a lot of heart.

When I wasa a teen, Trek movies were mostly about a middle-aged man going through a mid-life crisis. This is not that story. It's a great story of how Kirk TRULY becomes the captain of the Enterprise, and what he learns about himself along the way.

I was grinning from beginning to end. The actors nail the parts. It felt like old Trek, but the action made it feel like it was on steroids.

IMO - If ST09 is 'Batman Begins', then STID is 'The Dark Knight'.

Well done!

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

When I wasa a teen, Trek movies were mostly about a middle-aged man going through a mid-life crisis.

And just what's your problem with that, young man?

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

You know, there's this great moment - when Khan explains in detail to Spock-in-command where the Enterprise's life support systems are located, how he'll disable them and then walk over the "cold, dead corpses" of the crew to rescue his people - that's a wonderful homage to Khan's disabling of the ship in "Space Seed."

Academic, Captain. Refuse, and every person on the Bridge will suffocate.

Guess Khanberbatch had quite a bit of time to study the Enterprise tech manuals while he was at Section 31, hmmm?

 

[Kemaiku]

The Vengeance was likely under construction at the same time as the Enterprise, they're both the forerunners of the newer, shinier advanced fleet Starfleet is producing. So Khan was probably monitoring the entire construction process of the Enterprise. Worryingly he probably knew more about it than Kirk, maybe even Pike.

 

[Agent Richard07]

- Gotta re-watch "Space Seed" before I see the movie again.

- The Vengeance construction site looked like a Borg cube.

- Hope you enjoyed Alice Eve in 3D, J. Allen.