7X12 Nightmare in Silver(Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS)

[RoJoHen]

I agree with Cold War and Bells of St. John, why on earth does everyone like Crimson horror so much? Was appalling.

Probably because most of us actually like Vastra, Jenny, and Strax.

Why? They're awful. Turning villains into allies never works. I think we've seen the lesbian Silurian in more stories than the others now which to me is a real middle finger, and that's almost the same with Strax. Silurian's do not belong in Victorian London being lesbians, they belong with other Silurians in some sort of situation. Also, enough with the silurians with human faces, I thought he original conception of the silurians was that they don't have human faces.

And Sontarans. They are probably in the top five most iconic doctor who villains list, and one's an ally to the doctor? NO NO NO! Awful. And the lesbian chick's kinda plain.

I don't know what to tell you. I don't care if villains turn into allies if it's done in an entertaining way. I think the Sontarans are ridiculous enemies anyway; they look like potatoes.

As individual characters, I find Vastra, Jenny, and Strax fun to watch. That's all I require.

 

[Thestral]

^ Yup.

 

[The Wormhole]

I agree with Cold War and Bells of St. John, why on earth does everyone like Crimson horror so much? Was appalling.

Probably because most of us actually like Vastra, Jenny, and Strax.

Why? They're awful. Turning villains into allies never works. I think we've seen the lesbian Silurian in more stories than the others now which to me is a real middle finger, and that's almost the same with Strax. Silurian's do not belong in Victorian London being lesbians, they belong with other Silurians in some sort of situation. Also, enough with the silurians with human faces, I thought he original conception of the silurians was that they don't have human faces.

And Sontarans. They are probably in the top five most iconic doctor who villains list, and one's an ally to the doctor? NO NO NO! Awful. And the lesbian chick's kinda plain.

Silurians never really were villains, so there's nothing wrong with the Doctor befriending one. As for Strax, so what? One Sontaran is friend with the Doctor. People are allowed to be individuals, even in a race of cloned alien soldiers. I'm sure the rest of the Sontarans will gladly try to defeat the Doctor and chant "Sontar-Ha!" when next they meet.

Actually, a storyline I want to see is Strax having a reunion with the Sontarans, but ends up betraying them in defense of Vastra and Jenny. Cliched as fuck, but it would certainly be awesome.

 

[Kitty Worrier]

I actually don't think it's that at all. CyberDoctor wondered why the Doctor thought about Clara so much. The obvious conclusion is that he was attracted to her, but that's incorrect. Or, at least not the main reason. It's because she's the impossible girl.

I thought it was great that Clara knew that wasn't the Doctor because she knows he doesn't see her that way. Although, it was lame how the CyberDoctor was still able to destroy the detonator which she conveniently brought to him.

Mr Awe

I'm not talking about that moment, or the time with the Doctor and CyberDoctor arguing in his head. I know that was fake. I'm talking about the last moment of the episode before the teaser. I'm not usually a shipper. And I don't know if I want these two to get together yet, but how do you interpret the last line?

"Impossible girl! A mystery wrapped in an enigma squeezed into a skirt just a little too....tight...." (and then his face, as he slips off into a reverie for a few seconds, smiles, then snaps out of it, looking appalled with himself) "What are you?!"

He finds her attractive and he doesn't want to. It's funny. I don't see how else one can interpret that last scene.

Could be that he now realizes his attraction, or a bit of the CyberPlanner is coming through.

 

[Slugboy]

He did, I was just suggesting cybergnats as a play on cybermats. Cybermite is a visual play, I was making an aural pun. I did think MS might say that before he said mite.

If it weren't for the necessity of the "Cyber" prefix, I would have called them "silverfish". They look and move almost exactly like real-life silverfish (I imagine that was their inspiration) and it has the "silver" adjective that is associated with the Cybermen in episode titles.

 

[Slugboy]

Could be that he now realizes his attraction, or a bit of the CyberPlanner is coming through.

Perhaps. After all, the CyberPlanner did threaten to "strip [her] down" for spare parts.

 

[Klaus]

I think it's quite probable that the secret of Clara's nature will have something to do with why he is so attracted to her, beyond just the mystery.

Nice to hear an ansible reference...

 

[JoeZhang]

Why? They're awful. Turning villains into allies never works. I think we've seen the lesbian Silurian in more stories than the others now which to me is a real middle finger, and that's almost the same with Strax. Silurian's do not belong in Victorian London being lesbians, they belong with other Silurians in some sort of situation. Also, enough with the silurians with human faces, I thought he original conception of the silurians was that they don't have human faces.

And Sontarans. They are probably in the top five most iconic doctor who villains list, and one's an ally to the doctor? NO NO NO! Awful. And the lesbian chick's kinda plain.

Are you hinting that that they might be lesbians? You seem to mention it in every post when it's not actually relevant to the discussion at hand.

As for for the idea that the Sontarans being only bad guys - bit of an odd claim considering that they are the good guys in their second appearance!

 

[Gov Kodos]

Why? They're awful. Turning villains into allies never works. I think we've seen the lesbian Silurian in more stories than the others now which to me is a real middle finger, and that's almost the same with Strax. Silurian's do not belong in Victorian London being lesbians, they belong with other Silurians in some sort of situation. Also, enough with the silurians with human faces, I thought he original conception of the silurians was that they don't have human faces.

And Sontarans. They are probably in the top five most iconic doctor who villains list, and one's an ally to the doctor? NO NO NO! Awful. And the lesbian chick's kinda plain.

Are you hinting that that they might be lesbians? You seem to mention it in every post when it's not actually relevant to the discussion at hand.

As for for the idea that the Sontarans being only bad guys - bit of an odd claim considering that they are the good guys in their second appearance!

This show needs more Rutan lesbians.

 

[JoeZhang]

Or gay daleks.

 

[Lt. Uhura-Brown]

Being a Neil Gaiman script, I expected it to be great, but it was merely good.

I can only conclude that it wasn't up to the standard I've come to expect from Mr. Gaiman due to executive meddling, or some such.

 

[JoeZhang]

I saw a comment on another forum - that as originally written this script had Amy and Rory in it? Anyone know anything about that?

 

[Starkers]

Well that might be true, I know Gaiman says it's taken him ages to write (see it's not just Moffatt) and went through 4 or 5 drafts. I'd imagine it was unlikely given they seemed to know Karen and Arthur were leaving for some time, but you never know...

 

[Stevil2001]

I saw a comment on another forum - that as originally written this script had Amy and Rory in it? Anyone know anything about that?

On GB, there's a guy who says he helped Gaiman with his Doctor Who lore for both scripts, and the first draft had the Victorian Clara and her Victorian children in it, so it would seem to have come along later than that.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

This really looks like a TOS set! Lighting, angled walls, spacey future doorway, eccentric collection of relics..

 

[Mr. Adventure]

I saw a comment on another forum - that as originally written this script had Amy and Rory in it? Anyone know anything about that?

On GB, there's a guy who says he helped Gaiman with his Doctor Who lore for both scripts, and the first draft had the Victorian Clara and her Victorian children in it, so it would seem to have come along later than that.

I saw that and assuming the guy is reliable it seems they would've been Victorian and more integrated through the season. The change to the current modern version was known far enough ahead not to force his hand though. There was supposed to be more explanation for the kids' presence seeded in the episode but was cut for time, some tacked on to Crimson Horror as seen.

Also, the Cyberman weren't to be stompy but that was added post-production as it was felt that it played as unfinished (like they forgot to add sound) rather than conveying the intent they were quiet.

 

[Anachronus]

This really looks like a TOS set! Lighting, angled walls, spacey future doorway, eccentric collection of relics..

You've nailed it. I couldn't put my finger on what it was about that set that was veeery familiar but that is it.

 

[Ood Sigma]

My rankings:

1. Asylum of the Daleks
2. Bells of St. John
3. The Crimson Horror
4. Journey to the Centre of the TARDIS
5. Hide
6. Dinosaurs on a Spaceship
7. Nightmare in Silver
8. Angels Take Manhattan
9. Rings of Akhaten
10. The Power of Three
11. The Snowmen
12. A Town Called Mercy
13. Cold War

 

[McDuff]

Granted I have only been watching the show since 2005, but it has never been high art. It's always been zany, silly, filled with plot holes, aimed at children more than adults (this includes the Classic episodes I've seen), a popcorny sense of adventure only occasionally punctuated by heroic moments.

I understand where you're coming from. There's also some people who've been watching Doctor Who since their childhood, so they feel a sense of ownership.

Personally I didn't grew up on it and only watched a few classic episodes before 2005. I really started to get into Doctor who in 2005 with the new series.

While Moffat wrote good episodes under RTD, I much prefer the RTD era. I felt the RTD episodes were less directed at a children audience than Moffat is. Moffat was a good writer under RTD but he seems to make a point to make his episodes directed to a young audience instead of a general audience (the child in us) like RTD was. He even said so himself.

On the other hand, this episode was more enjoyable than the last few episodes. The 2 Doctor fighting each other in his head was pretty interesting. The Cybermen made me think of the Borg with their assimilation and the way they adapt. Resistance is futile! It's strange that they don't use their fast moving ability more often.

While I strongly miss the RTD era, I still enjoy watching Doctor Who. It's not great but very much watchable.

 

[Green Lantern]

I'm really starting to feel like the decision to not do any two parters is starting to bite them a little... This could have been a BIG story... Return of the proper Cybermen? Could have been told in epic fashion.. Instead it was clipped and quick and while the writing was great and the action was too, it just felt too rushed..

I completely agree. More often than not, my favorite episodes of the New Series have been the two-parters so I was very disappointed to read that Moffat decided to do away with them this season. The lack of two-parters has definitely hurt this season and I think stories like this one, "Cold War" (which, for me, is the best episode this season), and even "Journey to the Centre" of the TARDIS" would have been much better if they had more breathing room.

Since everyone else is doing it...

1. Asylum of the Daleks
2. Cold War
3. Angels Take Manhattan
4. The Power of Three
5. Dinosaurs on a Spaceship
6. Bells of St. John
7. A Town Called Mercy
8. The Snowmen
9. Journey to the Centre of the TARDIS
10. Crimson Horror (except the last two minutes)
11. Nightmare in Silver
12. Hide (again, except the last two minutes)
13. Rings of Akhaten

Two notes:

1. Unfortunately, there hasn't been a knockout episode all season, nothing on the level of "The Doctor's Wife," "The Girl Who Waited," or "The God Complex."

2. Despite its low ranking, I actually like "Rings of Ahkaten" and I'm still surprised by the level of hate its gotten.

Ultimately, there hasn't been a bad episode this season, but nothing outstanding either. It's been a rather disjointed season, both in pacing and quality.

Ah, all of series 7. For the whole of S7, my ordering is as follows:

1)The Angels Take Manhattan
2)Cold War
3)Asylum of the Daleks
4)The Bells of Saint John
5)Nightmare in Silver
6)The Power of Three
7)The Snowmen
8)Dinosaurs on a Spaceship
9)Journey to the Centre of the TARDIS
10)The Crimson Horror
11)Hide
12)A Town Called Mercy
13)The Rings of Akhaten

So yeah, I'd say we have a similar idea about S7.