7X12 Nightmare in Silver(Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS)

[Starkers]

I do wonder if Gaiman's ideas were more expansive than the budget.

I don't necessarily think Gaiman is necessarily some uber-writer who can do no wrong but I wonder if some of his ideas were let down by the production itself. Was the comical castle meant to be more of a park attraction? Were the kids forced upon him and so on.

I don't know. I know he felt a bit stiffed on The Doctor's Wife by them using the Ood rather than a new creature he'd dreamt up, but on the whole I'd imagine Gaiman would have much more latitude than many of the other writers. In the same way RTD never meddled much with Moffat and Cornell's scripts I can't imagine Moffat would tinker much with Gaiman, or give him a really strict brief.

As for the kids, well maybe that was Moffat's idea, or maybe Gaiman wanted children then Moffat suggested Clara's kids?

 

[marillion]

I'm really starting to feel like the decision to not do any two parters is starting to bite them a little... This could have been a BIG story... Return of the proper Cybermen? Could have been told in epic fashion.. Instead it was clipped and quick and while the writing was great and the action was too, it just felt too rushed.. I didn't mind the kids, although the big sister was SERIOUSLY annoying. The kids simply worked as a plot device to get them to an amusement park. The TARDIS took them there WHEN they needed to be there, however...

 

[Photoman15]

I don't know. I know he felt a bit stiffed on The Doctor's Wife by them using the Ood rather than a new creature he'd dreamt up,

I don't know. I think using the Ood gave us a great throwaway line when the Doctor and Idris land in the TARDIS and the Doctor finds out where Nephew was standing and says, "another Ood I failed to save".

 

[Hartzilla2007]

This could have been a BIG story... Return of the proper Cybermen?

They've been back since The Pandorica Opens.

 

[Mr Awe]

Good. Grading this one was tough. Good is probably a bit generous. One the one hand, there was stuff that I really loved. On the other, stuff I really didn't like. And, it was all mixed together.

The stuff I liked. Mainly the upgraded Cybermen and the future history of the Cybermen. The upgrades were great, and it made you realize, this is how the Cybermen should've always been. Highly advanced cybernetic lifeforms aren't going to be the slow, bulky clunking things we've seen. The new "Cybermats" were great. Again, they should've always been like that.

I also loved the future history. They're so dangerous that if you can't destroy one, you blow up the entire planet to be sure. And, that that strategy worked but ruined an entire galaxy.

On the other hand, most of the other stuff didn't work. The kids in an amusepark, silly. The game of chess, didn't really make sense. Although, Matt Smith did a great job acting both sides of that. The siege in the silly castle, no thanks. And, for a siege, not much really happened. So much of it just didn't gel.

A big weird ball of great stuff and not so great stuff mixed together.

Mr Awe

 

[RoJoHen]

I thought it was fun. Nothing awesome, but this is one of the few episodes where I actually enjoyed Clara as a character.

For a moment I was afraid that the Doctor was once again going to defeat the bad guy with humany wumany nonsense (as the Cyberplanner kept saying "emotion" and then twitching). I'm glad he actually just slapped himself in the face with the EMP.

 

[Mr Awe]

Clara's stuff was fun and entertaining - her scenes with Smith particularly, I do love the ship teasing - but she did seem to slip into commading way easily. The kids were... well, I'm glad they were in a coma for most of it. The girl especially.

The Doctor's last line of the episode pretty much shows that they are going to continue with the shippy stuff. He's obviously attracted to her. It'll be funny going forward.

I actually don't think it's that at all. CyberDoctor wondered why the Doctor thought about Clara so much. The obvious conclusion is that he was attracted to her, but that's incorrect. Or, at least not the main reason. It's because she's the impossible girl.

I thought it was great that Clara knew that wasn't the Doctor because she knows he doesn't see her that way. Although, it was lame how the CyberDoctor was still able to destroy the detonator which she conveniently brought to him.

Mr Awe

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

This could have been a BIG story... Return of the proper Cybermen?

They've been back since The Pandorica Opens.

Cybermen are Cybermen are Cybermen. They're all "proper".

 

[Alidar Jarok]

I'd agree, Warwick Davis was great, I'd like to see The Emperor return some day. As someone up thread (Think it might have been Lonemagpie) said, it did feel a bit Warhammerish.

I do wonder if Gaiman's ideas were more expansive than the budget.

The fast Cyberman was interesting (bet a Raston Warrior is still faster) but giving a race a special power then effectively ignoring it thereafter is something of a cheat.

Do we know if all of them had it or just the one?

 

[Green Lantern]

I'd rank this series so far:

1) Cold War
2) The Crimson Horror
3) The Bells of St. John
4) Journey to the Centre of the TARDIS
5) Rings of Underrated
6) Hide
7) Nightmare in Silver

Enjoyed 'em all though to some extent. Just odd that Mark Gatiss has kicked arse while Neil fucking Gaiman delivers the weakest offering.

I agree with Cold War and Bells of St. John, why on earth does everyone like Crimson horror so much? Was appalling.

 

[RoJoHen]

I'd rank this series so far:

1) Cold War
2) The Crimson Horror
3) The Bells of St. John
4) Journey to the Centre of the TARDIS
5) Rings of Underrated
6) Hide
7) Nightmare in Silver

Enjoyed 'em all though to some extent. Just odd that Mark Gatiss has kicked arse while Neil fucking Gaiman delivers the weakest offering.

I agree with Cold War and Bells of St. John, why on earth does everyone like Crimson horror so much? Was appalling.

Probably because most of us actually like Vastra, Jenny, and Strax.

 

[marillion]

This could have been a BIG story... Return of the proper Cybermen?

They've been back since The Pandorica Opens.

Well, I just mean a "proper" Cybermen focused story where they are truely menacing (as menacing as Cybermen can be, really)... The episode with the cybermen in the department store sort of counts, but still... In this one, they had some chutzpah!

 

[Green Lantern]

I'd rank this series so far:

1) Cold War
2) The Crimson Horror
3) The Bells of St. John
4) Journey to the Centre of the TARDIS
5) Rings of Underrated
6) Hide
7) Nightmare in Silver

Enjoyed 'em all though to some extent. Just odd that Mark Gatiss has kicked arse while Neil fucking Gaiman delivers the weakest offering.

I agree with Cold War and Bells of St. John, why on earth does everyone like Crimson horror so much? Was appalling.

Probably because most of us actually like Vastra, Jenny, and Strax.

Why? They're awful. Turning villains into allies never works. I think we've seen the lesbian Silurian in more stories than the others now which to me is a real middle finger, and that's almost the same with Strax. Silurian's do not belong in Victorian London being lesbians, they belong with other Silurians in some sort of situation. Also, enough with the silurians with human faces, I thought he original conception of the silurians was that they don't have human faces.

And Sontarans. They are probably in the top five most iconic doctor who villains list, and one's an ally to the doctor? NO NO NO! Awful. And the lesbian chick's kinda plain.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

I'm really starting to feel like the decision to not do any two parters is starting to bite them a little... This could have been a BIG story... Return of the proper Cybermen? Could have been told in epic fashion.. Instead it was clipped and quick and while the writing was great and the action was too, it just felt too rushed..

I completely agree. More often than not, my favorite episodes of the New Series have been the two-parters so I was very disappointed to read that Moffat decided to do away with them this season. The lack of two-parters has definitely hurt this season and I think stories like this one, "Cold War" (which, for me, is the best episode this season), and even "Journey to the Centre" of the TARDIS" would have been much better if they had more breathing room.

Since everyone else is doing it...

1. Asylum of the Daleks
2. Cold War
3. Angels Take Manhattan
4. The Power of Three
5. Dinosaurs on a Spaceship
6. Bells of St. John
7. A Town Called Mercy
8. The Snowmen
9. Journey to the Centre of the TARDIS
10. Crimson Horror (except the last two minutes)
11. Nightmare in Silver
12. Hide (again, except the last two minutes)
13. Rings of Akhaten

Two notes:

1. Unfortunately, there hasn't been a knockout episode all season, nothing on the level of "The Doctor's Wife," "The Girl Who Waited," or "The God Complex."

2. Despite its low ranking, I actually like "Rings of Ahkaten" and I'm still surprised by the level of hate its gotten.

Ultimately, there hasn't been a bad episode this season, but nothing outstanding either. It's been a rather disjointed season, both in pacing and quality.

 

[Starkers]

I'd rank this series so far:

1) Cold War
2) The Crimson Horror
3) The Bells of St. John
4) Journey to the Centre of the TARDIS
5) Rings of Underrated
6) Hide
7) Nightmare in Silver

Enjoyed 'em all though to some extent. Just odd that Mark Gatiss has kicked arse while Neil fucking Gaiman delivers the weakest offering.

I agree with Cold War and Bells of St. John, why on earth does everyone like Crimson horror so much? Was appalling.

Probably because most of us actually like Vastra, Jenny, and Strax.

Plus it was just so gosh darn fun!

 

[tomalak301]

We're ranking the season now? Sounds like fun. Is it the whole season or the 2013 part:

Entire Season

Asylum of the Daleks
Cold War
The Angels Take Manhatten
A Town Called Mercy
Nightmare in Silver
The Crimson Horror
The Bells of St. John
Hide
The Snowmen
Dinosaurs on a Spaceship
The Power of 3
The Rings of Akhaten
Journey to the Centre of the TARDIS

2013 Only

Cold War
Nightmare in Silver
The Crimson Horror
The Bells of St. John
Hide
The Rings of Akhaten
Journey to the Centre of the TARDIS

I'm a little surprised I ranked Nightmare in Silver so highly but this might have been the episode where Matt Smith showed his most range as an actor. It was really great to watch him work. JTTCOTT might have been the most disappointing episode of Doctor Who I've ever watched. Unless it wasn't a total reset (And my rankings might improve with this episode this weekend), this was the one episode where they could have tackled the "Impossible Girl" storyline head on and they chickened out.

 

[Venardhi]

Asylum of the Daleks
Cold War
Hide
Nightmare in Silver
The Angels Take Manhatten
The Crimson Horror
The Bells of St. John
A Town Called Mercy
Dinosaurs on a Spaceship
Journey to the Centre of the TARDIS
The Power of 3
The Rings of Akhaten

I'd probably put it all somewhere around this order. I'm really surprised how low Hide is getting ranked around here.

 

[SeerSGB]

Whole Season:

* Asylum of the Daleks
* Cold War
* Journey to the Center of the TARDIS
* Dinosaurs on a Spaceship
* The Angels Take Manhatten (before someone asks why down the list and not #1: It was a great episode, but felt a bit over the top)
* Hide & The Snowmen
* The Bells of St. JohnA Town Called Mercy
* The Crimson Horror
* The Rings of Akhaten
* The Power of 3
* Nightmare in Silver

 

[Newspaper Taxi]

1. Coldwar
2.Nightmare in Silver
3. The Bells of St. John/ Hide
4. Journey to the Center of the TARDIS
5.The Crimson Horror
6. Rings of Akhaten

I was surprised I couldn't really get into the Crimson Horror episode...I do like Madam Vasatra, Strax, and Jenny, but something about the episode turned me off.

 

[sttngfan1701d]

I actually don't think it's that at all. CyberDoctor wondered why the Doctor thought about Clara so much. The obvious conclusion is that he was attracted to her, but that's incorrect. Or, at least not the main reason. It's because she's the impossible girl.

I thought it was great that Clara knew that wasn't the Doctor because she knows he doesn't see her that way. Although, it was lame how the CyberDoctor was still able to destroy the detonator which she conveniently brought to him.

Mr Awe

I'm not talking about that moment, or the time with the Doctor and CyberDoctor arguing in his head. I know that was fake. I'm talking about the last moment of the episode before the teaser. I'm not usually a shipper. And I don't know if I want these two to get together yet, but how do you interpret the last line?

"Impossible girl! A mystery wrapped in an enigma squeezed into a skirt just a little too....tight...." (and then his face, as he slips off into a reverie for a few seconds, smiles, then snaps out of it, looking appalled with himself) "What are you?!"

He finds her attractive and he doesn't want to. It's funny. I don't see how else one can interpret that last scene.