STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

[Commishsleer]

On the issue of the pips/bars on the formal uniforms, I wish they would publish details.
Pike as a full admiral had four gold while Marcus also a full admiral had five, I presume because he was head of Starfleet.
Kirk and the other captain had four silver.
Spock as a commander had three silver.
Uhura, Zulu & Carol Marcus as lieutenants had two silver.
Chekhov as an ensign had one silver.
So these unlike the arm stripes follow USN rank insignia.
I am not sure about lieutenant commanders McCoy and Scott, McCoy seemed to be wearing three while Scott had only two?
As for lieutenant junior grade does it even exist?
Noel Clarke's character seemed to be enlisted.

Could Kirk at that stage be a full commander, Spock and McCoy Lt Commanders, Scotty, Uhura, Sulu, Carol Marcus - lieutenants.
Chekov either a sub-lieutenant or ensign.
Its assuming Kirk and Spock have been stepped down in rank.

<snap>

This is just an action film with a Starfleet communicator pin on it.

Very eloquently put post. I wholeheartedly agree with everything you just said. I'm still surprised this seems to be so popular with fans.

I am literally at the other end of the spectrum here! Even more than the last one, this movie really felt like Star Trek: TOS. As I watched the interaction between the characters - particularly Kirk, Spock, Bones and Scotty, it just felt so "Star Trek" - in a naturalistic, genuine and completely uncontrived fashion. I was so pleased, and was kind of beaming inside!

Add to that, the relentless pace, stunning action sequences, glossy visual sheen, excellent editing, top rate score etc. - and you've got a winner. Loved it, loved it, loved it.

Totally agree.
Miss it at your own peril.
I just can't wait to see it again.
I liked it much better than ST09 but perhaps its because ST09 had to pave the way.

 

[Orac Zen]

I was in a really, really bleak mood when I saw the movie yesterday but I'm quite sure that didn't have much to do with my opinion of it.

TWoK is, IMO, one of the most overpraised, overhyped and overrated things in Trek and this movie came across as TWoK-lite (albeit with much nicer effects, something I basically couldn't care less about). One of the things I liked most about '09 was the fact it jettisoned pretty much all the Trek baggage and gave TPTB a blank canvas to play with. The fact the first thing they did was go back to one of the most stupid villains in Trek...the mind just boggles. I'd "dreaded" (not the right word, but anyway) Khan turning up in this movie and craptacular mood or not, my eyes just about rolled out of my head and started bouncing on the floor when "Harrison" announced who he actually was. Then to essentially revisit TWoK...geez.

D. What a wasted opportunity.

 

[Pindar]

I am not convinced that the Vengeance was actually hidden or being built in secret.

If the head of Starfleet (I think that's what Marcus was meant to be) wants to commission a new class of ship who's going to argue with him.

Certainly the project was classified but he had it sitting on his desk in plain view.

 

[daedalus5]

Well, I went to great lengths to avoid spoilers, trailers, even hanging up my Mod coat here last week to avoid anybody on the BBS blurting out the news. It *nearly* got spoiled when I went to the toilet just before the screening as people were talking about it and I asked them to please don't (thankfully they laughed and agreed! ). PHEW!

I saw the film on IMAX 3D.

It was A+ ratign for me - absolutely awesome. I loved the reversal TWOK when it was Kirk dying and not Spock - although I guessed the Khan blood tribble revival thing at that moment. Very cynical of me, would have been better if they killed Kirk off and then brought him back in the next movie.

I had no idea about Khan at all - I thought they did a great job of hiding him as Harrison. Absolutely brilliant. Spocks "Khaaaan" was a joy.

I also loved the very small tips of the hat, such as the exploded moon of Praxis, D4 cruisers, the model ships etc.

One of the highlights was the Enterprise comming out from the water and later from the cloud line. Beautiful shots. The Dreadnought crashing into the planet was also great. I thought for a moment the Enterprise was going to saucer separate and be destroyed and for them to get a "-A" starship.

The ending, whereby they did the whole "Space the final frontier" followed by the Alexander Courage music was also pretty awesome.

Best bit - Nimoy cameo - I had no idea that was going to happen and I was smiling throughout.

The previous night I had watched the 2009 film so it married together perfectly.

I shall see it again, but won't bother too much with the 3D expense - big screen is enough for me.

I wholeheartedly recommend it to you.

 

[donners22]

<snap>

This is just an action film with a Starfleet communicator pin on it.

Very eloquently put post. I wholeheartedly agree with everything you just said. I'm still surprised this seems to be so popular with fans.

There seems to be an attitude that we should be grateful that there is a successful film with the Star Trek brand on it after years of insignificance or failure.

I enjoyed and own every series; last I checked, the DVDs don't disappear just because there isn't any Trek being released.

I'll assess the new films on their merits - I quite liked this one - but I feel no sense of obligation to do so out of the mere fact that they exist.

 

[ROBE]

Kirk had four silver bars before and after he lost command of the Enterprise and the captain of the USS Bradbury had four silver. So I presume this shows either rank or position of captain.
I would like to see an official rank table so we knew for sure.
I noticed that Noel Clarke's character had a different cap and his badge like the honour guards was plain, so I presume they were ratings/enlisted?

 

[F. King Daniel]

Last night, BBC2 in England aired "The Star Trek Story", a documentry from the mid-1990's which did it's very best to paint Trek fans as complete freaks. Nichelle Nicols sang a lot. They recycled parts of Trekkies (the woman who went to jury duty in her TNG uniform, the guys dressing as Klingons). A girl read her K/S slash fanfic. If the film flops here (and I saw it with a grand total of 14 other people on opening day), blame them.

 

[ROBE]

I knew a postman who passed out on a hot day and when he was examined they found he was wearing a TNG command uniform under is Royal Mail uniform.

 

[Flake]

Last night, BBC2 in England aired "The Star Trek Story", a documentry from the mid-1990's which did it's very best to paint Trek fans as complete freaks. Nichelle Nicols sang a lot. They recycled parts of Trekkies (the woman who went to jury duty in her TNG uniform, the guys dressing as Klingons). A girl read her K/S slash fanfic. If the film flops here (and I saw it with a grand total of 14 other people on opening day), blame them.

Ugh glad I missed it, though I have a suspicion I will have watched it already on one of the BBCs Star Trek Nights in either 1996 or 2001.

The Star Trek Story on channel 5 last Thursday at 8pm sounds much better, it went back to the beginning and had actors playing Roddenberry and herb solow as they pitched the show. Discovery channel showed Trek Nation last night which was ok.

 

[beamMe]

<snap>

This is just an action film with a Starfleet communicator pin on it.

Very eloquently put post. I wholeheartedly agree with everything you just said. I'm still surprised this seems to be so popular with fans.

Quite right.
If I wanted to see attractive people do exiting things, quite frankly, I'd rather watch sports.

Damn those onion - brings tears to my eyes every time.

 

[sadsquid]

<snap>

This is just an action film with a Starfleet communicator pin on it.

Very eloquently put post. I wholeheartedly agree with everything you just said. I'm still surprised this seems to be so popular with fans.

I am literally at the other end of the spectrum here! Even more than the last one, this movie really felt like Star Trek: TOS. As I watched the interaction between the characters - particularly Kirk, Spock, Bones and Scotty, it just felt so "Star Trek" - in a naturalistic, genuine and completely uncontrived fashion. I was so pleased, and was kind of beaming inside!

Add to that, the relentless pace, stunning action sequences, glossy visual sheen, excellent editing, top rate score etc. - and you've got a winner. Loved it, loved it, loved it.

Exactly how I feel. It feels more like Star Trek than ST'09 IMO.

I loved the movie, looking forward to seeing it again. Benedict Cumberbatch was awesome! When there were rumours floating around a while ago that the villain was going to be Khan, I was worried and hoped for a completely new villain, but it turned out much better than I expected. It took TWoK, paid tribute to it, and then put it's own spin on it.

Can't wait for the next movie! And hopefully a new TV Series if TPTB see that there's plenty of life in the franchise! (So hopefully STID does well at the box office...)

 

[Aike]

Maybe they were simply better distributed.

Nah, Paramount has done poorly all along selling Star Trek outside the US and the English-speaking world.

I think this example illustrates the problem. In the mid-90s, public TV in Sweden wanted to air a sci-fi or Star Trek show because TNG was doing quite well on a small Swedish satellite channel. And there were several Star Trek clubs starting around the country because of the success of TNG.

But the buyer for public TV had no clue about what he to do, so he asked one of the presenters who is a big Star Trek fan. The presenter told him about Voyager. And the buyer decided to buy the show on his recommendation.

One would think that Paramount actually tried to market and sell their own shows. But no.

I guess they still think the same way: "Star Trek just isn´t popular in many markets so just do as little as possible, and if we have to do something let´s sell Star Trek as something else. Like a cop movie Or a Benedict Cumberbatch movie"

But the fun fact is that when Voyager premiered on Swedish TV almost 800 000 people tuned in early June of 1998. That´s a high figure given the broadcast date and the fact that there were about nine million Swedes at the time. In fact, it actually matched the ratings in the US when you adjust for population.

 

[Oso Blanco]

Benedict Cumberbatch was awesome!

He was, but he didn't have enough time to flesh out the character and to show the audience how dangerous he really is. I think they did this a lot better in The Dark Night. The Joker came across as truly menacing, while nuKhan didn't even begin to show his potential. Wasted opportunity!

I think this movie just screams for an extended cut!

 

[trevanian]

Kirk had four silver bars before and after he lost command of the Enterprise and the captain of the USS Bradbury had four silver. So I presume this shows either rank or position of captain.
I would like to see an official rank table so we knew for sure.
I noticed that Noel Clarke's character had a different cap and his badge like the honour guards was plain, so I presume they were ratings/enlisted?

There was a conscious decision on the original series to downplay rank, so I think (someone will doubtless correct me if I'm wrong) that Captain's rank was cut down to 2-1/2 bars (on the sleeve) from four, and commanders were 2. Don't remember if that was abandoned or retained for TMP, though.

I imagine TheAbramsBunch weren't too concerned about this kind of thing though. Probably a little less important than determining ship size accurately.

 

[trevanian]

Which brings up another question: When a Captain in rank serves as a first officer, do you address him as Captain? I'm sure that would cause some confusion on the bridge!

Spock was referenced as Captain in TWOK and TUC even after Kirk was in command. (in TWOK it was a code reference of sorts, but even so ... )

 

[Phily B]

Benedict Cumberbatch was awesome!

He was, but he didn't have enough time to flesh out the character and to show the audience how dangerous he really is. I think they did this a lot better in The Dark Night. The Joker came across as truly menacing, while nuKhan didn't even begin to show his potential. Wasted opportunity!

I think this movie just screams for an extended cut!

I think they went the other direction where they tried to make him more understandable, I mean you forget about his identity when he is explaining his motives and the fact he is Khan because he seems rather reasonable.

 

[Therin of Andor]

One would think that Paramount actually tried to market and sell their own shows. But no.

They do.

Here in Australia, TNG was presold to Paramount Picture's Australasian home video sister company, CIC-TAFT, then offered to network TV. In UK, it was bought up by Sky One, a satellite TV station. A similar deal would have been offered in your country. Perhaps no one took up the offer?

 

[BillJ]

I imagine TheAbramsBunch weren't too concerned about this kind of thing though. Probably a little less important than determining ship size accurately.

Funny since the stripes correspond to the ranks they were in TOS.

 

[Phily B]

I think Trek is pretty popular in the UK, I remember it used to be on BBC2 after the kids programs had ended and thats how I got into DS9 and TNG.

 

[pentta]

Kirk to Sybok in STV: "I'm afraid of nothing."
Kirk to Spock in STID: "I'm afraid. (of dying)".

Which is it? What Kirk said to Sybok wasn't a bit of throwaway dialogue, it was an underline of his character. Kirk has never been afraid of anything. Even when Kirk died the first time, his last words to Picard was, "It was... fun.". But the reboot is also a reboot of the characters' characters. Fine, make everyone in nuTrek super sensitive and in touch with their feelings - make Vulcans cry, but stop pretending these characters are even similar to the original characters, beyond their names.

Ever since the last film, this has become Star Trek Troopers. The kids love it, and that's why you see so many positive reviews. It's a wonderfully executed action space fantasy film in a Trek wrapper, but it's not Star Trek. Star Trek was never cool. And Kirk is a risk taker, not a thrill seeker.

And the nuEnterprise is stupidly large. I won't even go into it.