I just remembered in the movie that when Kirk was made 1st officer he had 4 pips on his shoulder and Spock had 3. Does that mean Kirk was a Commander and Spock a Lt Commander or Kirk still a Captain.
STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]
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This was my most anticipated film of the year. However, the more footage I've seen, the more my anticipation has waned. From the first line spoken by Cumberbatch's character in the teaser, the more this just looks like Star Trek trying to channel The Dark Knight. It did not help that there was little in the way of actual space footage in the trailer and more of a focus on a ground-based setting. So it did not really feel like I was watching a trailer for a Trek film.
I feel there's been some dis-ingenuousness when it comes to the marketing. It's like they're trying to keep up this old fan rumor that this somehow actually involves Khan (Look! Carol Marcus with a torpedo-like device! Spock making a sacrifice! Maybe?). That somehow this character isn't what he appears. But in keeping him a mystery, I'm not getting much of a reason why I should get fired up for this. And while they seem to be going out of their way to keep his motives secret, I'm startled at how casually they've shown the apparent destruction of the Enterprise.
I know I keep using words like "seem" and "apparent" because I know the Abrams team is all about misdirection. That's why I'm hoping there's a lot more to this. I've been a life-long Trek fan, so naturally I hope this movie does well.
I feel there's been some dis-ingenuousness when it comes to the marketing. It's like they're trying to keep up this old fan rumor that this somehow actually involves Khan (Look! Carol Marcus with a torpedo-like device! Spock making a sacrifice! Maybe?). That somehow this character isn't what he appears. But in keeping him a mystery, I'm not getting much of a reason why I should get fired up for this. And while they seem to be going out of their way to keep his motives secret, I'm startled at how casually they've shown the apparent destruction of the Enterprise.
I know I keep using words like "seem" and "apparent" because I know the Abrams team is all about misdirection. That's why I'm hoping there's a lot more to this. I've been a life-long Trek fan, so naturally I hope this movie does well.
I chalk it up to the new timeline developing Transwarp drive some 20 years before the Excelsior, AND succeeding in getting it right. I mean if they can beam people half way across the galaxy now, perhaps some of that same technology is being used in warp drives.
This was my most anticipated film of the year. However, the more footage I've seen, the more my anticipation has waned. From the first line spoken by Cumberbatch's character in the teaser, the more this just looks like Star Trek trying to channel The Dark Knight. It did not help that there was little in the way of actual space footage in the trailer and more of a focus on a ground-based setting. So it did not really feel like I was watching a trailer for a Trek film.
I feel there's been some dis-ingenuousness when it comes to the marketing. It's like they're trying to keep up this old fan rumor that this somehow actually involves Khan (Look! Carol Marcus with a torpedo-like device! Spock making a sacrifice! Maybe?). That somehow this character isn't what he appears. But in keeping him a mystery, I'm not getting much of a reason why I should get fired up for this. And while they seem to be going out of their way to keep his motives secret, I'm startled at how casually they've shown the apparent destruction of the Enterprise.
I know I keep using words like "seem" and "apparent" because I know the Abrams team is all about misdirection. That's why I'm hoping there's a lot more to this. I've been a life-long Trek fan, so naturally I hope this movie does well.
Wonderful review of the commercials. I personally want to see and review the film myself.
I was so distracted by the Vengeance being on Admiral Marcus' desk that I missed the NX-01. Was that really the prime NX-01 or a JJ version of it?
I really must see this movie again ... but I can't find a theater that's showing it in the original language AND 2D. I really don't want to see it in 3D again.
I really must see this movie again ... but I can't find a theater that's showing it in the original language AND 2D. I really don't want to see it in 3D again.
On the issue of the pips/bars on the formal uniforms, I wish they would publish details.
Pike as a full admiral had four gold while Marcus also a full admiral had five, I presume because he was head of Starfleet.
Kirk and the other captain had four silver.
Spock as a commander had three silver.
Uhura, Zulu & Carol Marcus as lieutenants had two silver.
Chekhov as an ensign had one silver.
So these unlike the arm stripes follow USN rank insignia.
I am not sure about lieutenant commanders McCoy and Scott, McCoy seemed to be wearing three while Scott had only two?
As for lieutenant junior grade does it even exist?
Noel Clarke's character seemed to be enlisted.
Pike as a full admiral had four gold while Marcus also a full admiral had five, I presume because he was head of Starfleet.
Kirk and the other captain had four silver.
Spock as a commander had three silver.
Uhura, Zulu & Carol Marcus as lieutenants had two silver.
Chekhov as an ensign had one silver.
So these unlike the arm stripes follow USN rank insignia.
I am not sure about lieutenant commanders McCoy and Scott, McCoy seemed to be wearing three while Scott had only two?
As for lieutenant junior grade does it even exist?
Noel Clarke's character seemed to be enlisted.
Looked like the regular NX-01 to me. And it was standing between the Phoenix (Cochrane's warp ship) and the Kelvin, if I remember correctly.
If you're a Star Trek fan, there's no need for the publicity to fire you up. The assumption is that Star Trek fans will attend whether they see advertising for it or not, simply because they are interested in Star Trek.
It's the general public who need to be fired up. The general public got fired up for TMP, ST IV, "First Contact" and JJ's first ST film. And made them huge financial successes.
The media campaigns are not aimed at you.
Which brings up another error: Kirk still had four pips, even when he insists being called "Commander" instead of "Captain".
The question is, was he was being demoted in rank or in position? According to the pips his rank didn't change, so addressing him as "Captain" would still be correct.
Which brings up another question: When a Captain in rank serves as a first officer, do you address him as Captain? I'm sure that would cause some confusion on the bridge!
In some of the TOS movies, both Kirk and Spock were 'Captains' and serving together.
I'm just guessing that when Spock and Kirk were together on the bridge in TOS they just call Spock, Mr Spock and Kirk 'Captain'.
I see Spock being referred to as captain only in non-operational situations.
I don't know why Kirk still insisted on being called commander unless he was deranked or maybe he just wanted Spock to feel bad.
I'm just guessing that when Spock and Kirk were together on the bridge in TOS they just call Spock, Mr Spock and Kirk 'Captain'.
I see Spock being referred to as captain only in non-operational situations.
I don't know why Kirk still insisted on being called commander unless he was deranked or maybe he just wanted Spock to feel bad.
You have no idea what you're talking about so please desist telling me what I am and why I think the way I do. I liked the first one, but this? Not at all. You know why? Because I expected Trek and got dated space opera.
It was so empty. It really was. There were Montgomery plans (check out his Market Garden plan for reference), smashing action, quite literally, never ever a sense that this could go south for real - you actually have to have that gut feeling that wow, that was unexpected, even though these characters will pull through at the end - and the elements that are Trek were simply quickly hammered in with a nail gun to get them over with. They were gestures, and you can’t treat the core of Trek like that and think it’ll stay Trek.
It had no flow. It felt like scenes written because damn! we have all these characters and we need to squeeze all of them in to this film with lubricant and a shoe horn. Whedon has his faults, but at least knows how to do an ensemble cast film in a way were there’s flow and people get their moments in the spotlight without it feeling forced or it turning into a stack of scenes on top of each other.
I’m irritated because they have a good cast, they actually work. Pine is a really good Kirk, and Quinto and Pine work well together. Pegg is a great Scotty. I LOVE this reincarnation of Scotty. And Cumberbatch does what he can with what he has to work with. Problem is, it doesn’t matter how great they are if the script is poor. The plot holes were large enough to fit the NCC-1701 into them.
I keep coming back to Avengers as a comparison and just how ST XII failed where Avengers worked. There were plot holes in Avengers too, but the difference was that the plans were relatively simple so they might actually work. Kahn’s plan is ridiculous. Plain and simple. So is Kirk’s. And Admiral Marcus, OMG. I think it’s fun the way they re-use actors in Trek, but before, you never knew where the new character with the same actor would go. In this case? I was so disappointed that Weller was another villain (because it was painfully obvious from the start).
And how bloody convenient that the biggest and fastest starship that is also a warship, Starfleet’s only and built in secrecy on top of everything (I’m sorry but how was the even possible that close to earth? It wasn’t possible to hide things like that in 2154 so how is it suddenly possible here, in the 2260s), can be handled by one person. Riiight. The crash with it? It has a frelling WARP CORE. As Scotty enlightens us at the very beginning, it’s a nuclear disaster waiting to happen - but when Kahn crashes it in San Francisco Bay, that’s just completely overlooked. It has always been a problem in Trek, that warp core, but at the first convenient moment, it’s ignored. Why were we told they're so sensitive if we don't get to see the repercussions later on? Certainly a hook wasted.
What happens in this film should have had political repercussions. Starfleet had an Admiral trying to start a war and develop weapons in secrecy. How could that not be a huge thing, both within Starfleet and to the earth government? And the escalating conflict with Qu'onos, what happened to that? Did it just miraculously go away? Nothing of this is even hinted.
Trek has always had a commentary to what goes on in our world around us right now, but in this film that’s just gone. It should be about what we can be if we pull our heads out of our asses, so it’s actually quite political, but there is precious little of that in this film. It’s just a spectacular man hunt. Iron Man is more political in the last film than ST XII.
Marvel's films also manages to have a female cast that mainly isn't only there for the men to enjoy. And don't tell me they weren't in this film, because they are. Marcus is joked about in a sexualised way and shown in underwear and Uhura got to be mostly about her as a girlfriend to Spock. All of this is just just plain wrong.
This is just an action film with a Starfleet communicator pin on it.
This was my number one for the year as well. After my own experience, I can only recommend you not raise your anticipation from where it is.
In terms of key space-based shots, the trailers have pretty well shown the lot. What you've seen aren't mere snippets pulled from a larger scene, they pretty well *are* the scene.
I gave it a C. As a big fan of the last movie I wanted to like it, but with this movie basically being a rehash of TWOK it just seems like they're repeating history. Wasn't the whole point of the alternate universe to move away from what happened before? The 'cute' throwbacks to TWOK meant for fans at the end basically took me right out of the movie, ironically a non-fan probably would have enjoyed that more! On the other hand, the music, acting and special effects were all top notch at least.
I'll still buy the DVD, because I'm a completist, and hopefully it grows on me as time goes by!
I'll still buy the DVD, because I'm a completist, and hopefully it grows on me as time goes by!
Very eloquently put post. I wholeheartedly agree with everything you just said. I'm still surprised this seems to be so popular with fans.
And the NX-Alpha from the Enterprise episode "First Flight". The Ringship Enterprise XCV-330 was there too and I think I saw the "warp delta" from the ENT intro sequence although I'm not 100% sure.
And they were all in chronological order. Someone knew what they were doing
Seriously, I never liked TWOK because it's stupid. I know most people don't agree, but the old Khan was a total and utter dumbass with highly contrived motivations that didn't hold up to scrutiny at all. This new one is awesome. I loved it to bits.
As for the Avengers comparison: I love that too, I absolutely adore Tom Hiddleston in it (he's a glorious woobie, destroyer of worlds), but his plan was just about as nonsensical and convoluted as the one the villain in Skyfall had. I mean, come on, that was the dumbest way of getting everyone together on that flying ship thingie, ever. It made no sense whatsoever, and the odds of it working out were close to zero. I still like the film.
As for Cumby's character in ST XII...what's so ridiculous about his plan? He terrorised Starfleet to get his people back. Seems pretty straightforward to me. Nothing about anything felt shoehorned. It made perfect sense. I didn't detect any plothole big enough to take anything away from my enjoyment of this film.
But of course, YMMV.
As for the Avengers comparison: I love that too, I absolutely adore Tom Hiddleston in it (he's a glorious woobie, destroyer of worlds), but his plan was just about as nonsensical and convoluted as the one the villain in Skyfall had. I mean, come on, that was the dumbest way of getting everyone together on that flying ship thingie, ever. It made no sense whatsoever, and the odds of it working out were close to zero. I still like the film.
As for Cumby's character in ST XII...what's so ridiculous about his plan? He terrorised Starfleet to get his people back. Seems pretty straightforward to me. Nothing about anything felt shoehorned. It made perfect sense. I didn't detect any plothole big enough to take anything away from my enjoyment of this film.
But of course, YMMV.
You really think that Avenger's was some sort of feminist film in comparison in STID? You think their token superhero woman was any sort of leader? She was one of the lesser superheroes IMO. Left on the outside. No input into decisions. Why didn't they have a superhero woman who wasn't as nearly lame as the arrow guy - wonder woman, are there any other superhero women?. She wasn't in her underwear but that outfit she was wearing was pretty skintight.
Yes there aren't that many women leaders/operational staff in Star Trek because basically TOS and even TNG didn't have any women in power. At least in this incarnation Uhura goes on landing parties and isn't saying "I'm frightened" all over the place.
And the plan in Avengers was simple because all those superhero guys were simple. The only one with a brain or any charisma was Robert Downey Jnr. OK maybe I'm being a bit harsh - all the guys were pretty to look at and weren't really that bad. I just can't understand why this movie made so much money. It was all action, all simple predictable plot that was projected to the audience a mile off.
And you know in the end Kirk's plan worked because in any incarnation Kirk is awesome, has an awesome crew and is very lucky.
And yes everyone is entitled to like Avengers. I don't hate it. I just don't think its all that good.
I am literally at the other end of the spectrum here! Even more than the last one, this movie really felt like Star Trek: TOS. As I watched the interaction between the characters - particularly Kirk, Spock, Bones and Scotty, it just felt so "Star Trek" - in a naturalistic, genuine and completely uncontrived fashion. I was so pleased, and was kind of beaming inside!
Add to that, the relentless pace, stunning action sequences, glossy visual sheen, excellent editing, top rate score etc. - and you've got a winner. Loved it, loved it, loved it.
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