STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

[BillJ]

Never had the impression they just got there all that fast, thought it showed that the battle took hours, since the fleet was only mostly decimated by the time they arrived.

It didn't seem to take the Borg very long to kick the Fleet's ass in The Best of Both Worlds. And we have absolutely no proof that it took them any longer in First Contact.

It seems to me that those that like a Trek movie will go out of their way to defend a 'goof'. Those that dislike a film will condemn it based on the same exact thing.

Hats off to Flake for at least admitting there is no rhyme or reason why it didn't bother him in one film but does in another.

 

[Flake]

Having Kronos 2mins away from Earth at warp is, well, idiotic. Why bother with a neutral zone when both worlds are now next door to each other? Klingon surprise attack by its entire fleet based at Kronos would be straightforward. It should be days away at least. Preferably weeks! It contradicts everything in Star Trek so far.

I expect the next movie will get to the centre of the galaxy in say.... 10 minutes? Why not? Why not nip to the delta quadrant in 20 mins? If it serves the plot and the pacing then so be it.

While I agree that TOS cocked up speed and distance on more than one occasion, particularly since shuttles seemed to have no warp capability, the movie has opened the can of worms even wider. Often the distance was arbitrary and it was a case of the writers just being careless about their numbers. Enterprise was the exception and look at the fuss there. The implications are huge.

In the last movie, Scotty was able to home in on the Enterprise's Federation beacon to beam on board. Exactly what was Harrison locking onto on Q'onos? It may be that S31 had set up a beach-head receiving pad in a deserted area to avoid the signal being detected but if not the distance (20+ light years?) makes no story sense.

But why does transwarp beaming even matter if you can travel there physically with 500 times the man power in 5 minutes? Why travel there at all if you can just beam weapons to your location like US Drones? Why have a war at all, when you can just beam your 72 warheads straight to the Klingons' key military targets.

And Scotty was proud that he beamed 3 targets from 2 locations, but Harrison beamed 72 targets in one go using an automated transporter!

Plot convenience is a nice excuse but if you have to use it over and over and over and over and over, it's a sign of a very poorly considered plot.

Yes. These writers have all these gizmos at their disposal and don't have a clue of how they should use them or the implications of altering them beyond all recognition to serve the plot.

 

[BillJ]

While I agree that TOS cocked up speed and distance on more than one occasion, particularly since shuttles seemed to have no warp capability, the movie has opened the can of worms even wider

I like how whenever someone highlights a flaw in 'nu' Trek the go to defense is that old Star Trek did it worse. That's like saying it's okay for someone to mug an old lady because their dad did it as well.

Because most who condemn these new movies based on a flaw will go out of their way to say the same exact thing never happened in the particular Trek they like.

 

[Shazam!]

Because most who condemn these new movies based on a flaw will go out of their way to say the same exact thing never happened in the particular Trek they like.

Those people are crazy.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

I just think that if we do get to nuTNG movies in a few years that the Borg should show up in one of their movies and therefore I would like to see them left alone until then.

I wouldn't hold my breath for nuTNG. If it ever does happen, I can't see it happening before 2025 at the earliest.

Trek 13: 2016
Trek 14: 2019
Trek 15, TNG: 2022?

No.

And these screenwriters are doing everything that the owners of Trek can ask for: they write hits.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

I like how whenever someone highlights a flaw in 'nu' Trek the go to defense is that old Star Trek did it worse.

It's not a "defense" - it's an attempt to make the complainers be honest, if that's possible.

 

[F. King Daniel]

While I agree that TOS cocked up speed and distance on more than one occasion, particularly since shuttles seemed to have no warp capability, the movie has opened the can of worms even wider

I like how whenever someone highlights a flaw in 'nu' Trek the go to defense is that old Star Trek did it worse. That's like saying it's okay for someone to mug an old lady because their dad did it as well.

You're confusing what we're saying for some kind of attack on the old. What I think is being said is that we accept Trek for what it really was, not some idealized head canon. It didn't bother us before, why should it matter now?

 

[Kemaiku]

We don't know how long the Enterprise was at Warp before the core malfunction dropped them out again. The civilian ship could have taken hours to travel to Kronos and hours back again, with the Enterprise right at the edge of Klingon space.

The Mudd ship actually could have taken the longest part of the journey, since we don't get to see the vast majority of the outbound or return journeys for it, which are implied to take quite a while.

 

[Pauln6]

I like how whenever someone highlights a flaw in 'nu' Trek the go to defense is that old Star Trek did it worse. That's like saying it's okay for someone to mug an old lady because their dad did it as well.

It's not a "defense" - it's an attempt to make the complainers be honest, if that's possible.

Enterprise has been lampooned mercilessly for its mistakes, which is on par with nuTrek.

I'm the first to acknowledge old Trek's many flaws but they didn't have the Internet to cross reference things and nobody knew Trek would become such a phenomenon back then let alone one with such a rich wealth of lore. The end result was silly but the mistake was excusable.

Less so today.

And that goes triple for the negligent sexism.

And quadruple for abusing known laws of physics (and I'm talking supernovas, black holes, and freefalling objects hitting a planet's atmosphere.

 

[BillJ]

And quadruple for abusing known laws of physics (and I'm talking supernovas, black holes, and freefalling objects hitting a planet's atmosphere.

Star Trek has been abusing the laws of physics for a really long time now.

 

[Kemaiku]

"Cold antimatter implosion = time travelz" for a start.

 

[Flake]

We don't know how long the Enterprise was at Warp before the core malfunction dropped them out again. The civilian ship could have taken hours to travel to Kronos and hours back again, with the Enterprise right at the edge of Klingon space.

The Mudd ship actually could have taken the longest part of the journey, since we don't get to see the vast majority of the outbound or return journeys for it, which are implied to take quite a while.

I *might* be wrong, but the Enterprise fell out of warp a few hundred thousand km from Kronos. We can see it from where the Enterprise is. Again the warp core malfunction conveniently occurred nanoseconds before they would've dropped out of warp anyway yet it appears to occur in the middle of the trip because no one is prepared for arrival. Surely the Enterprise warping into orbit of Kronos is suicidal but it seems that was the plan? I thought they were going to the neutral zone? Need to see it again (and I will be but not today!! )

 

[Nero's Shadow]

Just seen the film plenty of nods to TOS that made me smile a lot got sucked into this the 1st hour then it flips it on its head brilliant plenty action all the way makes the film fly by and hopefully a bad guy ready for his revenge can't wait for the next instalment !!!

But please next film more McCoy Chekov and Klingons !!!!

 

[Kemaiku]

Kirk's orders where to park at the edge of Klingon space and aim the torpedoes at the planet, that they could travel at warp themselves and go the rest of the way.

In the film they imply they're in dangerous territory, that Klingons do patrol that far out, but it would take hours, even a couple of days before they were found.

They were never meant to go anyway deep into Klingon space, I know Kirk changed his mind about bringing Khan back alive, but he still wanted the Enterprise kept mostly out of harms way, making sure the Klingons never detected any Starfleet presence.

So the Mudd ship could have been at Warp for a couple of hours all the way to the planet, then the same back taking up most of the distance.

Then as I said above, the much faster return could have been the Vengeance pulling the Enterprise along in her much faster more powerful warp field, overriding the Enterprise's.

 

[Chu'lak]

I am so happy they used section thirty one and they mention ketha?! Martoks birthplace! Love that ds9 is getting respected more here than in all 4 tng movies

 

[Flake]

Kirk's orders where to park at the edge of Klingon space and aim the torpedoes at the planet, that they could travel at warp themselves and go the rest of the way.

In the film they imply they're in dangerous territory, that Klingons do patrol that far out, but it would take hours, even a couple of days before they were found.

They were never meant to go anyway deep into Klingon space, I know Kirk changed his mind about bringing Khan back alive, but he still wanted the Enterprise kept mostly out of harms way, making sure the Klingons never detected any Starfleet presence.

So the Mudd ship could have been at Warp for a couple of hours all the way to the planet, then the same back taking up most of the distance.

Then as I said above, the much faster return could have been the Vengeance pulling the Enterprise along in her much faster more powerful warp field, overriding the Enterprise's.

Park on the edge of Klingon space yes but I'm sure they end up a few hundred thousand kilometres from Kronos and thats after they are forced out of warp. It doesn't make sense. Like I said I've only seen it once and I am not 100% certain of anything but this is what I remember.

 

[Ryan8bit]

While I agree that TOS cocked up speed and distance on more than one occasion, particularly since shuttles seemed to have no warp capability, the movie has opened the can of worms even wider

I like how whenever someone highlights a flaw in 'nu' Trek the go to defense is that old Star Trek did it worse. That's like saying it's okay for someone to mug an old lady because their dad did it as well.

You're confusing what we're saying for some kind of attack on the old. What I think is being said is that we accept Trek for what it really was, not some idealized head canon. It didn't bother us before, why should it matter now?

The ideal time that it mattered was when the reboot initially started. That was when they could have decided to make a change, but they just didn't want to (nor would many creative teams want to). Bitching about it two movies in is just not accepting that fact from the first movie. I'm not sure what people were really expecting in that regard.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Interesting tidbits and backstory on Joseph Gatt's character GATT2000/5000/Science Officer 0718

I’m not in a position to tell you much more then you already know, as I’m not sure what J.J. would like released or not (and it’s safer to err on the side of caution.) But what I can tell you is that I’m an augmented human and one of my cybernetic augmentations is on the back of my head. The concept is that it’s a miniature version of the ship’s main computer which puts me in direct telepathic connection with the ship’s systems at all times. I’m the Six Million Dollar Man in space!

 

[Kemaiku]

Nice.

 

[F. King Daniel]

After seeimg the movie I was wondering if he was a jacked-up Bynar