Bashir

[Captain Kathryn]

Considered the Prime Directive declares it moral to watch an entire race die in a natural disaster because you don't know the consequences of getting involved... I'd say a bit of overeaction against something like that is small change.

And of course DS9 turned a blind eye to Starfleet regs a lot of the time. That was the whole premise of the show. It's a Bajoran space station on the frontier where the Federation's presence isn't as big. One of the active elements is a renegade group of Federation citizens(always found it funny DS9 made far better use of the Maquis than Voyager where they were around every day), and once the war started, it progressively became a "win at any cost" struggle.

Frankly I wish we saw more of that attitude on Voyager, it made for some good drama. The conflict between Janeway and Chakotay in Scorpion for example was just bittersweet in so many ways as it gave a glimmer of what the show could've been.

DS9 used the Maquis as a focal point in more episodes than VOY, yes. But the Maquis thing totally got overshadowed by the Dominion. It was hot news for a few episodes then they brought it back once in a while for convenience I think. Also...WTF...why DIDN'T Starfleet protect them or try to cooperate with them? Weren't they still considered "Federation citizens"? It seemed as though they were somewhere in between being in the Federation and not. I know Sisko went to the Maquis and tried to help and they refused...but in their minds they had to protect their homes. I think Starfleet could have done...SOMETHING to help them.

And yeah Voyager just didn't deal with the Maquis in the right way. Then again being lost in the middle of nowhere with little hope of returning home was understandably at the forefront of their minds. When something THAT bad happens...it's conceivable to think that past pettiness might lessen a lot. However, it would have been entirely conceivable for the Maquis to put up MORE of a fight against Janeway for destroying the Caretaker's array. We only got one cry from B'Elanna and that's it. And Chakotay just bent over and took it. Like you said, episodes where there was ACTUAL tension between former Maquis and Starfleet seemed more realistic. I honestly did not like when Chakotay and Janeway fought because I ship them as a couple in my fanfiction/fantasy world.
However, I did enjoy the tension in "Scorpion" and a few other episodes where they had a conflict of interest.

I still love when Chakotay punched Dalby in the face. I liked "Learning Curve". They finally showed the Maquis not cooperating!

[YT]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQwQdVyecz4[/YT]

 

[JirinPanthosa]

It was a nonsensical retcon, plain and simple. Probably the worst plot decision in the entire run of DS9. It made absolutely no sense for his character at that point, and the writers obviously had no plan for where to take him after that.

 

[Captain Kathryn]

It was a nonsensical retcon, plain and simple. Probably the worst plot decision in the entire run of DS9. It made absolutely no sense for his character at that point, and the writers obviously had no plan for where to take him after that.

It had some shock value, but that's about it, yeah.

 

[Melakon]

. . .I honestly did not like when Chakotay and Janeway fought because I ship them as a couple in my fanfiction/fantasy world. . . .

But think how edgy it could have been if Janeway and Chakotay fought for command in stereotypical "Indian style". Tied together by a rope at the wrists, ala Kirk vs. Tracey, bashing the hell out of each other until one of the crew yells "Enough!"

 

[Captain Kathryn]

. . .I honestly did not like when Chakotay and Janeway fought because I ship them as a couple in my fanfiction/fantasy world. . . .

But think how edgy it could have been if Janeway and Chakotay fought for command in stereotypical "Indian style". Tied together by a rope at the wrists, ala Kirk vs. Tracey, bashing the hell out of each other until one of the crew yells "Enough!"

LOL
You would need to trigger some "authentic" Native American pipe music to play RIGHT before the fight though.

And how sad it is that I am totally not surprised to see the words "Chakotay", "stereotypical", and "Indian" all together in the same sentence.

His fake tribalness was the worst. But that's another thread.

 

[R. Star]

DS9 used the Maquis as a focal point in more episodes than VOY, yes. But the Maquis thing totally got overshadowed by the Dominion. It was hot news for a few episodes then they brought it back once in a while for convenience I think. Also...WTF...why DIDN'T Starfleet protect them or try to cooperate with them? Weren't they still considered "Federation citizens"? It seemed as though they were somewhere in between being in the Federation and not. I know Sisko went to the Maquis and tried to help and they refused...but in their minds they had to protect their homes. I think Starfleet could have done...SOMETHING to help them.

And yeah Voyager just didn't deal with the Maquis in the right way. Then again being lost in the middle of nowhere with little hope of returning home was understandably at the forefront of their minds. When something THAT bad happens...it's conceivable to think that past pettiness might lessen a lot. However, it would have been entirely conceivable for the Maquis to put up MORE of a fight against Janeway for destroying the Caretaker's array. We only got one cry from B'Elanna and that's it. And Chakotay just bent over and took it. Like you said, episodes where there was ACTUAL tension between former Maquis and Starfleet seemed more realistic. I honestly did not like when Chakotay and Janeway fought because I ship them as a couple in my fanfiction/fantasy world.
However, I did enjoy the tension in "Scorpion" and a few other episodes where they had a conflict of interest.

I still love when Chakotay punched Dalby in the face. I liked "Learning Curve". They finally showed the Maquis not cooperating!

Well the whole Maquis thing could've been done better to say the least. It started in Journey's End, when Picard was ordered to relocate some Native Americans off a world to satisfy the peace treaty. Picard and Gul Evek(I also love that Gul Evek showed up in basically every Maquis episode as the Cardassian in charge of that.. nice small bit of continuity) struck a deal saying they could stay, but they're no longer Federation citzens.

In the Maquis(the episode), suddenly Hudson's there as a liaison and they're still Federation citizens. In TNG's Preemptive Strike when Picard rescues Evek's ship from the Maquis he specifically states they're Federation citizens too. And in both of those episodes they made a point to include a very obvious Native American or two with the Maquis. So, even the show's a bit inconsistent there.

The reason they made such a big deal of the Maquis in DS9's season 2 and TNG's season 7 was to set up Voyager's premise, which in effect took over for TNG once it went off the air. Which is disappointing because they barely used the concept at all. Oh you had Jonas and Hogan mouth off now and again, but that's about it. And yes, as silly as Learning Curve was(Neelix's cheese as the main antagonist?!) at least it acknowledged hey... some of these people may actually resent being all but conscripted into a military at best they don't believe in, at worst actively despised, and told time and again by your captain that she's more than willing to sacrifice your life for values they you don't believe in.

As for why the Federation was so actively hunting down the Maquis? You got me on that one. Certainly Hudson and Eddington were high profile defections but beyond that... Eddington said it pretty well. The Federation told them to take care of themselves, so they did. The Cardassians were breaking the treaty from day 1, heck when they were negotiating it, they tried seizing Minos Korva. Certainly in early DS9 and late TNG the Cardassians weren't shy about attacking whenever it seemed expedient. Though Tom Riker stealing the Defiant didn't help things with them.

All I can say is, the Federation seemed to place value on the peace treaty at all costs above anything that happened to those colonists. Heck they even seemed to put way more effort into taking them down than the Cardassians ever did. I always thought the Maquis were right in the end in a small way... the Cardassians only joined the Dominion and initiated the largest war in Federation history. Just wait until Damar starts naming casualty numbers in the -millions- later on in season 7.

To Chakotay and Janeway? Heck I thought they'd make a decent couple the few episodes Chakotay seemed life like. Janeway seems way better a match for him than Seven to be certain. I just always got the "older man shacking up with the young hot blonde" vibe from that one. Seriously, how dramatic would that have been if only the fragile romance between Janeway and Chakotay was keeping the two factions at peace? I'm not saying the Maquis should've mutinied every episode, but we should've seen more things like we did in Prime Factors, were a few Maquis and homesick Starfleet members went behind Janeway's back to steal the magic teleporting tech. Certainly the Maquis would be more willing to break the rules to get things done.

Boy did we get off topic from good old Bashir?

 

[M.A.C.O.]

You know I actually liked the Bashir character from day one. What i didn't like was the way Starfleet tried to blacklist and drum roll Bashir out of starfleet. Seriously it's the 24th century, Im sorry the enlightened society of the Federation can't see the obvious advantage of genetically correcting faults with people who have them. Then they name drop Khan like he was some Deus Ex Diablos to everything in the Star Trek Universe.

It's like the writers had seen the film Gattica and decided to make Star Fleet the complete anti thesis to a society like that. While Gattica society is an extreme example of what can go wrong for people who are not genetically advanced. Julian being born mentally handicapped and Geordi being born blind what do you expect loving parents to do? Julian's parents decided to give their child the best opportunity to survive. Geordi's parents decided to turn lemons into lemonade and made sure their son was never treated differently by society despite his handicap.

Imagine in our modern world their was suddenly a procedure to cure down syndrome, blindness, or multiple sclerosis . Would people or families of people suffering from diseases really take the "moral high ground" by rejecting such a treatment?

The Doctor EMH can cure Tom Paris and Janeway from evolving lizard syndrome with anti-protons bs but Star Fleet frowns upon genetic manipulation.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

I always thought it was more a case of he was maturing. Then once his dark secret is in the open he can use it freely.

I love the banter between him and Garak on this issue when they are on the Defiant in the middle of the war, discussing Bashir's "boyish smile".

 

[Melakon]

Andy Robinson played it very coy as to whether Garak was attracted to Bashir.

 

[Ryva Brall]

Speaking of the EMH... they made Picardo look the same age as the EMH as Dr. Zimmerman in "Dr. Bashir, I Presume?" on DS9... but then in the Voyager episode "Life Line", Zimmerman is completely gray haired, haggard looking, and appears to be much older. I think they were only a year or two apart, no? Seems weird.

I found that weird, too. But I attribute that to his disease. I believe in "Life Line", the Doctor called it "acute subcellular degradation". That may account for his rapid aging.

Also the fact that the episodes were written by two different people, for two different shows.

 

[R. Star]

Speaking of the EMH... they made Picardo look the same age as the EMH as Dr. Zimmerman in "Dr. Bashir, I Presume?" on DS9... but then in the Voyager episode "Life Line", Zimmerman is completely gray haired, haggard looking, and appears to be much older. I think they were only a year or two apart, no? Seems weird.

I found that weird, too. But I attribute that to his disease. I believe in "Life Line", the Doctor called it "acute subcellular degradation". That may account for his rapid aging.

Also the fact that the episodes were written by two different people, for two different shows.

I always attributed it to the disease as well. Zimmerman appeared in earlier VOY episodes looking like normal, one as a vision and one as a hologram. What I wondered is in Author, Author why Barclay testified on behalf of the EMH about him helping Zimmerman instead of Zimmerman himself. Was the actor who played him, not available?

 

[Captain Kathryn]

Speaking of the EMH... they made Picardo look the same age as the EMH as Dr. Zimmerman in "Dr. Bashir, I Presume?" on DS9... but then in the Voyager episode "Life Line", Zimmerman is completely gray haired, haggard looking, and appears to be much older. I think they were only a year or two apart, no? Seems weird.

I found that weird, too. But I attribute that to his disease. I believe in "Life Line", the Doctor called it "acute subcellular degradation". That may account for his rapid aging.

Also the fact that the episodes were written by two different people, for two different shows.

I always attributed it to the disease as well. Zimmerman appeared in earlier VOY episodes looking like normal, one as a vision and one as a hologram. What I wondered is in Author, Author why Barclay testified on behalf of the EMH about him helping Zimmerman instead of Zimmerman himself. Was the actor who played him, not available?

Yeah, I'm sure they did it for the disease. In other VOY episodes, Zimmerman looks younger too. I forgot about that. I've been watching so much DS9 that I forgot his other appearances in VOY. I was really happy that Picardo got a special guest spot on DS9. He's the best.

And about Zimmerman...I don't think he would be so kind as to testify for his EMH, sadly. Barclay, on the other hand, got his rocks off in holo-programs so I'm not surprised that he supported the Doctor's holonovel...and Barclay also had a fascination with Voyager...so it makes sense that he would testify for the EMH.

As for the actor being available...

 

[Ryva Brall]

Yeah, I'm sure they did it for the disease. In other VOY episodes, Zimmerman looks younger too. I forgot about that. I've been watching so much DS9 that I forgot his other appearances in VOY. I was really happy that Picardo got a special guest spot on DS9. He's the best.

And about Zimmerman...I don't think he would be so kind as to testify for his EMH, sadly. Barclay, on the other hand, got his rocks off in holo-programs so I'm not surprised that he supported the Doctor's holonovel...and Barclay also had a fascination with Voyager...so it makes sense that he would testify for the EMH.

As for the actor being available...

I adore Robert Picardo, but I can't stand Zimmerman. He's like the worst version of the Doctor. He has none of the Doc's charm, warmth, or compassion. He's basically the kind of person the Doctor would be, if he had never developed his own personality. If that makes any sense.

So I'm not really surprised that Zimmerman didn't testify on the Doc's behalf. He probably couldn't be bothered. Either that, or Reg decided that his testimonial would do more harm than good.

 

[Kira Nerys]

Bashir is arrogent in the beginng and changes over the course of the series .That's one of the reasons why I like DS9 the characters change and evolve.

 

[Kabraxal]

O'Brien really said it best... you either love him or hate him. And at first, I think many hated him then... well, they don't hate him

I think he actually portrayed the young brash fresh graduate that matures into something more really really well. I loved the character progression.