Animated Series

[hux]

Any more (none West wing related) comments about the animated series ... i'll probably get it but i'm in no rush and i think i'll always be a little dubious about it as a piece of worthwhile Trek

 

[Christopher]

I don't think TAS is any more "dubious" as worthwhile Trek than, say, TOS's third season or TNG's first or VGR's sixth. It has some duds, and it has some gems. And it's the only Trek sequel series that was largely written and mostly performed by TOS veterans, which has got to count for something.

 

[Lenny Nurdbol]

The Animated Series is mostly awful, but I love it nonetheless.

If you enjoy "bad" episodes of Trek, buy and enjoy. If not, give it a miss.

I know the studios don't consider it canon, but I've wondered how much was actually contradicted.

No more than how the other Trek series' contradict each other (see the videos in my sig for some examples)

Of the top of my head, "The Magicks of Megas Tu" directly contradicts Star Trek V: The Final Frontier (in the former, the Enterprise explores the centre of the galaxy, in the latter "no one has ever made it to the centre of the galaxy") and "The Slaver Weapon", being a Trekified rewrite of the Known Space short story "The Soft Weapon", doesn't fit with the modern Trek chronology. Sulu talks about four Man/Kzin wars, the last of which was 200 years prior to the episode - which would be about the time of Star Trek: First Contact.

There have been some huge nods to TOS in live-action Trek:
The young Spock scenes from 2009's Star Trek were based on those in "Yesteryear" - some parts copied word-for-word.

The Sehlat seen in "Yesteryear" would be mentioned in, and then crop up, in Star Trek: Enterprise.

Kor's old ship which he talks about in Deep Space Nine is the Klothos, from the animated episode "The Time Trap"

I read one of IDW's TOS series and they had Arex in it, and I loved that TAS put two very alien looking characters on the bridge, even if one of those was a cat lady.

Also, Arex and M'Ress, transplanted to the 24th century, have been a part of Peter David's Star Trek: New Frontier novel series since the late 90's.

Yesteryear was also brilliant.

Indeed. By far the best TAS episode.

Did you actually watch "The Magicks of Megas Tu" all the way through? The Megans were paranoid and xenophobic... Doesn't it stand to reason that after they let the Enterprise go they doctored her logs and mind-wiped this particular voyage from the minds of the Enterprise crew? No contradiction...

Regarding "The Slaver Weapon" you should read Treknical history a bit closer... According to the U.S.S. Enterprise Officers Manual (original, black spiral bound edition) the 4 "wars" were more like raids on Sol system... In fact, they Might have even triggered WW III for all we know... Afterwards, after warp drive was discovered, ships such ad the DY-500 were upgraded and refitted and the Kzinti were driven away... Earth had warp drive, the Kzinti had the gravity planer (or gravity polarizer, depending on your source)... The Kzinti are also mentioned in the TAS episode "The Infinite Vulcan" as an early threat to Humanity... And one appears on the Elysian council in "The Time Trap"... Much has been written about Kzinti in Trek if you delve into Star Fleet Battles and various miscellaneous Treknical sources... Such as the Federation Reference Series which states that the Kzinti were being "hemmed in" by the Federation and in the early 2270's some radical elements let loose and started the Kzinti Incursion incident which resulted in Star Fleet ordering the production of more frigate-class starships which inevitably resulted in the Avenger class heavy frigate represented by the U.S.S. Reliant in ST II...
According to Alan Dean Foster's novelizations, the Kzinti are offshoots of the Caitians, much like the Romulans are offshoots of the Vulcans... And we apparently see a Caitian in ST V and also on the Federation council in ST IV... If Humans can exist both in Trek and in Known Space, why can't the Kzinti? Their former Patriarchy is blueprinted on the original Star Trek Maps, also...

 

[Lenny Nurdbol]

Should i buy the animated series or is it an unnecessary addition to my collection (i notice there isn't a section on here for discussing the animnated series) but some of it clearly is canon such as Kirks middle name and i think there's a few facts about Vulcan that came from the series

I'm tempted because many see it as the 4th season to the original series and the fact that most of the cast came back to do the voices for it, makes me think it's probably worth having

I know the animation isn't that brilliant but are the stories any good

thoughts

TAS is a logical continuation of TOS with Very intelligently written stories, but don't expect modern state-of-the-art animation from an old weekly 70s cartoon...

I personally find it integral, as these half hour adventures were generally better written than anything E ever gave us, and amazingly managed to cram them into so little time...

Alan Dean Foster novelized all 22 of them in his 10-book "Log" series which you should checkout, actually expanding 4 of them into full-length books on their own... Lots of great stuff in there, and particularly in Foster's later episodes, a great deal of emphasis is placed on such things as FJ's Enterprise blueprints and even the Star Fleet Technical Manual is mentioned in-passing in a story or two... You might want to read them first, as they tend to be better than the rushed episodes themselves...

Treknically speaking, many of the designs introduced in TAS have been blueprinted, and rather thoroughly at times such as the Cargo Drone from "More Tribbles, More Troubles" (no less than 2 blueprint packs at that, not to mention historical and class listings in manuals), and the U.S.S. Huron from "Pirates of Orion" (though with some liberties taken on her design in the Independence Class Armed Freighter booklet of general plans)... We also get a variety of unique shuttlecraft like the Aquashuttle, long-range shuttle, and heavily armored shuttle...
Foster is also instrumental in naming the Klingon battlecruiser the Klolode class in one book, mentioning such things as the use of transporters for security purposes (somewhat expanded upon in TNG), and giving us The first Klingon words ever published in book form (though dismissed and forgotten by later fandom!)...

 

[Lenny Nurdbol]

TAS is pretty damn cool, and no Trek DVD collection is complete without it.

But there's something seemingly wrong with the TAS DVDs I watched... I don't know what term to use... Colorization? No, Color Correction? Maybe... Either that or my chromatic memory is going...

You see, as I recall the old TAS episodes, numerous ones had goofs like Kirk wearing a Red uniform at times... In this DVD release he's wearing the standard gold uniform... Maybe it's me or maybe my old TV set needed adjustment...

Paramount throws these things at us from time to time... Take for instance a release of "City on the Edge of Forever" a couple decades ago... The famous theme music in that was edited out and replace with, well, a kind of generic rambling piano piece... I thought I was losing my mind, of course...then I investigated and found out that there were certain Legal issues in regards to it (and for once, Harlan Ellison didn't even have his slimy hands in it!)... It was eventually put back in...

Then there's the infamous "rare color copy recently unearthed" of "The Cage" which, I'd bet my manuals on, was a colorized version of the B&W footage from the hybrid reconstruction, right down to the drop in audio quality!

 

[Christopher]

Then there's the infamous "rare color copy recently unearthed" of "The Cage" which, I'd bet my manuals on, was a colorized version of the B&W footage from the hybrid reconstruction, right down to the drop in audio quality!

Wrong.

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/The_Cage_(episode)#Reception_and_aftermath

The master color 35 mm negative of "The Cage" was cut into the master negative of "The Menagerie" in 1966, and the trims not used were subsequently lost. No color or 35mm print of "The Cage" was known to exist, only the black-and-white print owned by Gene Roddenberry, who continued to exhibit the footage at various Star Trek conventions throughout the '70s and early '80s.
...
In 1987, film archivist Bob Furmanek discovered the missing trims from the color 35 mm negative of "The Cage" at a Hollywood film laboratory, and saw that they were returned to Paramount. However, the soundtrack trims were not found. When restoring "The Cage", Paramount used the soundtrack from "The Menagerie" for most scenes, and the soundtrack of Roddenberry's 16 mm print (which was of lower audio quality) for the restored trims. The mixing of sound and picture quality for the episode caused controversy in some fan circles, in that some viewers believed that the existing black-and-white footage had simply been colorized, even though this was not the case.

There's also the fact that colorized black-and-white film blatantly looks colorized, because it's basically just a tinted black-and-white image, and the shading of things looks different, because the shadows are just gray underneath a color tint rather than an actual changed color/hue. It doesn't look the same as actual color footage. The full-color version of "The Cage" is definitely genuine color film, not colorized.

 

[Lenny Nurdbol]

Well, I still don't buy it, as it's one heck of a coincidence with no original audio track and I'd swear that I can see a slight transition in color during the exact same points where the B&W portion cuts in... Colorized B&W might look colorized to you, but in the case of "The Cage" they had the actual footage to work around to get 100% perfect color sampling from... So why you ask don't they fess up about it? Well, at the time the colorizing of films (even one which had originally been in color) was rather controversial and they decided to simply play it safe and go with the supplied "discovery" story...

But I don't want to argue with you... You have your belief and I have mine... Or substitute "reality" if you want to pay your respects to "The Cage"...

I Do Know that Paramount plays some dirty tricks... Maybe this isn't exactly one of them, but it sounds like another fast one they're pulling...

 

[BillJ]

The Cage is not colorized.

 

[Lenny Nurdbol]

I was only referring to the formerly B&W segments... But I don't want to argue the point with you or anyone else about it (besides, it's rather off-topic in regards to this thread)... I've been over and over my tapes of it, and they speak to me... I also don't automatically eat up and believe everything Paramount, the government, or my neighbor tells me... But of course today everyone believes everything they read, even if it's on the Internet...

 

[Sector 7]

^Paranoid much, sir? It is, unfortunately, impossible to debate facts with someone who has an irrational belief.

On topic: No Star Trek collection is complete without The Animated Series. It is considered by most to be the 4th season of The Original Series. The most recent theatrical incarnations of Star Trek use TAS as source material, which in itself re-canonizes The Animated Series. Viewing it will give one insight into the current movies.

 

[Lenny Nurdbol]

1. Paranoid? No... But the ignorant might misinterpret it as such...

2. Most recent theatrical...use TAS as "source material"? Abrams Et Al didn't even watch TOS, much less TAS! Unless you're reading A Lot into Spock getting bullied on Vulcan in that one scene....

 

[F. King Daniel]

But there's something seemingly wrong with the TAS DVDs I watched... I don't know what term to use... Colorization? No, Color Correction? Maybe... Either that or my chromatic memory is going...

You see, as I recall the old TAS episodes, numerous ones had goofs like Kirk wearing a Red uniform at times... In this DVD release he's wearing the standard gold uniform... Maybe it's me or maybe my old TV set needed adjustment...

Most annoying for me was the Delta Triangle being changed from red mists to black space - but not when shown on the Klingon viewscreen. IMO the errors were part of the charm.

2. Most recent theatrical...use TAS as "source material"? Abrams Et Al didn't even watch TOS, much less TAS! Unless you're reading A Lot into Spock getting bullied on Vulcan in that one scene....

The dialogue between "Selek" and Spock in "Yesteryear" is repeated by Sarek and Spock in the movie. It's clever, working out that Spock is telling his younger self what his father told him in the pre-Thelin, pre-"Yesteryear" TOS/TAS timeline - which is how it plays out in the STXI timeline also.
The 2009 movie has more references and callbacks to the entire Trek saga than any film before. Episodes, movies, novels (Vulcan lore from Spock's World and others, Kirk's father based on the version on Enterprise: The First Adventure and Final Frontier), games (the double-hulled design of the USS Newton) and even tech fandom (the Kelvin and spacedock were inspired by FJ's designs, that the arrowhead symbol is used on more than the Enterprise is supported by FJ's manual, the USS Kobayashi Maru was based on Roger Serensen's 1982 blueprint pack)

They didn't treat Star Trek like a historical document, but as a mythology. It goes without saying you disagree with the visual changes (which IMO don't really exist - we're seeing the same future through a different set of eyes. More on that HERE) and story choices, but they definitely did their homework.

 

[Sector 7]

1. Paranoid? No... But the ignorant might misinterpret it as such...

2. Most recent theatrical...use TAS as "source material"? Abrams Et Al didn't even watch TOS, much less TAS! Unless you're reading A Lot into Spock getting bullied on Vulcan in that one scene....

1. The ignorant would be those who do not know the facts.

2. JJ Abrams directed Star Trek (ST09). Roberto Orci and Alex Kurtzman wrote both Star Trek movies. Orci and Kurtzman are huge fans of all the Star Trek series, as well as, books and more related to Star Trek.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Most recent theatrical...use TAS as "source material"? Abrams Et Al didn't even watch TOS, much less TAS! Unless you're reading A Lot into Spock getting bullied on Vulcan in that one scene....

I seem to recall Alan Dean Foster got the gig novelizing "ST (2009)" because Orci & Kurtzman knew his work on the "Star Trek Logs" (TAS adaptations). And yeah, the Sarek/Spock scene in 2009 was a fond word-by-word homage to "Yesteryear".

IIRC, Orci & Kurtzman read/reread several TOS novels at the time, including "Enterprise: The First Adventure", "Final Frontier", "Best Destiny" and "Ex Machina".

 

[Christopher]

I seem to recall Alan Dean Foster got the gig novelizing "ST (2009)" because Orci & Kurtzman knew his work on the "Star Trek Logs" (TAS adaptations).

Quite right. They insisted that he be the one to do the novelization (and now the second one) because they'd grown up with the Logs and wanted to meet him.

 

[publiusr]

(Looks back over page) Wow, we've changed topic a few times by now and wandered remarkably far afield from the original topic. Anyone have anything else to say about TAS?

I like the TAS pastiches fine, but I wonder if the audio might be given to new animation attempts? There is so much audio from TOS and TAS one might even cobble together whole episodes (especially featuring new characters) while keeping the voices of the original cast.

 

[Christopher]

I like the TAS pastiches fine, but I wonder if the audio might be given to new animation attempts? There is so much audio from TOS and TAS one might even cobble together whole episodes (especially featuring new characters) while keeping the voices of the original cast.

People keep suggesting that, and the unspoken assumption there is that the quality of the audio is fundamentally better than the quality of the imagery. I disagree. The music is great, but it's very repetitive. The voice acting by Shatner and Kelley, and to some extent Nimoy, is lackadaisical and lifeless, and sometimes the audio quality for different voices is inconsistent because the actors recorded their lines at different facilities. And the sound effects all come from the limited library that Horta-Mahana Sound had to work with in the 1970s. Sure, the animation has its flaws and limitations, but so does the audio. Replacing the animation with something "better" (however you might choose to define that) would just throw the shortcomings of the soundtrack into sharp relief.

Besides, what are you proposing? Taking dialogue from existing episodes and cutting it together into some kind of Frankensteinian patchwork of a story? There's no way such a thing would produce a coherent, well-structured narrative, and it would sound awful because of the mismatching deliveries and audio qualities.

 

[Mysterion]

I think the best course is new animation, AND new voice/audio work to create new TOS stories.

Surely the right voice talent could be found to evoke the TOS characters we all know and love? For example, imagine Gary Sinise doing the voice of Dr. McCoy.

 

[Christopher]

^In other words, let TAS remain as it is and create a whole new animated series. Which is the only good suggestion I've heard.

 

[Mysterion]

^In other words, let TAS remain as it is and create a whole new animated series. Which is the only good suggestion I've heard.

Thanks. With the state of animation today, you could literally do anything with a new animated Trek series. This format would be perfect for the "anthology" type series folks are often suggesting over in the Future of Trek forums. You could do a TOS story one week, a DSN story the next, and a totally new setting within the Trek universe the week after that. Why be limited to what Filmation did 40 years ago?