The Walking Dead Season 3

[Takeru]

Yeah, you read posts on a board at imdb about TWD and see if you don't get a little dismissive.

Blergh, I had no idea you were talking about the imdb boards, they're almost as bad as youtube comments. You should have mentioned that earlier, a superior attitude towards many people posting there is healthy and completely justified.

I still didn't like the finale and that is primarily the show's fault, they teased the conflict between the prison and Woodbury almost the entire season and then it fizzled out like that. They did the whole "27 people die, guess who!" thing on twitter, knowing that people would assume a big fight between the groups and many named victims, not the governor going super crazy and killing a bunch of extras.

I read the Kirkman interview on tvline.com and I really don't agree with him about Andrea when he defends her by saying she didn't have all the information the audience had regarding the governor. You didn't need all the information to know he's a wacko, Michonne realized it very quickly and Andrea just ignored it all. That we never saw much of Michonne and Andrea's friendship still annoys me, they were supposed to be very close but shared almost no screentime, everything happened during the off season. In universe Andrea spend more time with Michonne than with the entire Atlanta group during the first two seasons and we didn't get to see it. I think it would have been better if Andrea and Michonne had only come to Woodbury during the second half of the season, spending the first half surviving alone and being awesome.

The timeskip worked for Rick's group, we knew the characters and how they interacted before, so seeing them again after a few months acting slightly differently was really interesting.

I think one of the reasons they killed off Andrea was because they really didn't need her anymore, by separating her from the main group for the entire season she became expendable, the show had already moved on from her being a part of the main group.

 

[Blue_Trek]

I am wondering if Carl attitude is permanently hardened now, think about it, put down Shane, put down his own mom, killed a young teen (non-walker), and is defying his dad more than ever.
Hershal is worried about him. It will be interesting to see if the writers turn him into a mini-Merle or mini-Shane. It seems the groups always has to have 1, and maybe Carl is it. But now that they are moving to a more democratic style leadership it won't matter, the adults can always outvote a kid.

If they do move Carl to be a bratty rebel, I like the younger Carl better, nobody likes a young, disrespectful punk. I really hope the writers don't turn into that punk, because until now I really liked Carl as a character, but now I am on the line next season will see what way it breaks.

 

[Dorian Thompson]

Blergh, I had no idea you were talking about the imdb boards, they're almost as bad as youtube comments. You should have mentioned that earlier, a superior attitude towards many people posting there is healthy and completely justified.

I still didn't like the finale and that is primarily the show's fault, they teased the conflict between the prison and Woodbury almost the entire season and then it fizzled out like that. They did the whole "27 people die, guess who!" thing on twitter, knowing that people would assume a big fight between the groups and many named victims, not the governor going super crazy and killing a bunch of extras.

It's copacetic. I understand where you're coming from. Perhaps I was so impressed that they killed off another main character instead of only extras that I'm easy to please. I did like the teasing of how bad Carl might become.

Anything is possible, but I see them becoming close war /best friends--like his growing relationship with Daryl.

That would work, too. Well developed friendships always strengthen a show. It might be nice to see a woman get in on that action, so to speak. The best friendships are always between the male characters. The Rick/Herschel mentor dynamic adds something positive. Rick and Daryl being close could add a great deal as well. Rick/Michonne as comrades in arms who'll fight to the death for one another--why not?

 

[Mojochi]

I am wondering if Carl attitude is permanently hardened now, think about it, put down Shane, put down his own mom, killed a young teen (non-walker), and is defying his dad more than ever.
Hershal is worried about him. It will be interesting to see if the writers turn him into a mini-Merle or mini-Shane. It seems the groups always has to have 1, and maybe Carl is it. But now that they are moving to a more democratic style leadership it won't matter, the adults can always outvote a kid.

If they do move Carl to be a bratty rebel, I like the younger Carl better, nobody likes a young, disrespectful punk. I really hope the writers don't turn into that punk, because until now I really liked Carl as a character, but now I am on the line next season will see what way it breaks.

I don't mind a little conflictual behavior like that going on. It's clear the crux of the show is on people trying to hang onto their humanity in an inhumane world where desensitization to violence is rampant.

Maybe Carl stays hard & cold. Maybe he worsens, or maybe he has a turn around. It'll be interesting to see how they work it, especially since he's no longer the only person his age in the group. None of those sheltered Woodbury kids will be anything like Carl. That'll make for interesting events as well

Will Carl be treated as an adult voice in the democracy even though there's plenty of kids now who probably won't be?

I'll be cool with most anything, just as long as no one picks up the "Too stupid" mantle left empty by Andrea. If characters constantly make moronic choices or take stupid actions, it should cost them, like it eventually did with Andrea

 

[Mister Fandango]

I just don't understand it.

Of all the characters on the show, Carl is the only one who's adapted to the new world and continued to be a good person overall. The kid he killed deserved his fate; not only did he fail to follow the instructions of three gunmen in a time of war, but he was acting in a threatening manner. It was clear he was going to try to pull something, seeing Carl as an easy target, and Carl -- rightfully -- pulled the trigger in order to protect Beth, Herschell, and his sister, all of whom were placed under his protection. If a fight between the two broke out, there was no way Carl could triumph physically, so pulling the trigger was his only option. There's not even any room for a valid argument against him doing so aside from the writer's trying to force the issue via Herschell's inane "killed him in cold blood" bull.

Just take at look at what he did when he discovered Tyrese's group. He didn't go all psychopath and murder them, and he certainly didn't leave them for dead with the zombies. He brought them back to the safe area and put them in "protective custody" until his father returned in order to deal with them. He even talked with them like a reasonable human being, explaining why he did it, and offering them amenities for the duration.

When he killed Shane, he did it to protect his father. When he killed his mother, he did it to take her out of her misery. And the few other times he offered a solution to a problem, is what a completely rational and sensible plan. A bit cold compared to our non-apocalyptic views, but completely understandable considering the world he's in now.

He's fully accepted what the world has turned into and is dealing with it far better than anyone else on the show. And he sure as hell isn't a psychopath like Merle or the Governor, or even the Governor's cronies (one of which, at least, also seems to be more rational about the situation).

Daryl's about the only one close to Carl's level of acceptance, and even he is still holding on to hope of the way things were a little. Carl's just put the past in the past and is doing his best -- as a friggin' kid no less -- to keep his "tribe" alive.

 

[SonOfMogh]

I just don't understand it.

Of all the characters on the show, Carl is the only one who's adapted to the new world and continued to be a good person overall. The kid he killed deserved his fate; not only did he fail to follow the instructions of three gunmen in a time of war, but he was acting in a threatening manner. It was clear he was going to try to pull something, seeing Carl as an easy target, and Carl -- rightfully -- pulled the trigger in order to protect Beth, Herschell, and his sister, all of whom were placed under his protection. If a fight between the two broke out, there was no way Carl could triumph physically, so pulling the trigger was his only option. There's not even any room for a valid argument against him doing so aside from the writer's trying to force the issue via Herschell's inane "killed him in cold blood" bull.

Just take at look at what he did when he discovered Tyrese's group. He didn't go all psychopath and murder them, and he certainly didn't leave them for dead with the zombies. He brought them back to the safe area and put them in "protective custody" until his father returned in order to deal with them. He even talked with them like a reasonable human being, explaining why he did it, and offering them amenities for the duration.

When he killed Shane, he did it to protect his father. When he killed his mother, he did it to take her out of her misery. And the few other times he offered a solution to a problem, is what a completely rational and sensible plan. A bit cold compared to our non-apocalyptic views, but completely understandable considering the world he's in now.

He's fully accepted what the world has turned into and is dealing with it far better than anyone else on the show. And he sure as hell isn't a psychopath like Merle or the Governor, or even the Governor's cronies (one of which, at least, also seems to be more rational about the situation).

Daryl's about the only one close to Carl's level of acceptance, and even he is still holding on to hope of the way things were a little. Carl's just put the past in the past and is doing his best -- as a friggin' kid no less -- to keep his "tribe" alive.

Truly brilliant post

 

[Sindatur]

Nicely laid out Mister Fandango

People keep saying Carl killed Shane, but, Carl didn't kill Shane, Rick did. All Carl did was put down the Zombie that dead Shane became.

 

[wissaboo]

totally agree, I'd even go so far as to say that Herschel totally misread what was going on with the kid Carl shot. He was seeing a teenage kid in the old world. Not a potential enemy in the real world.

 

[Blue_Trek]

I went back and re-watched the scene, Hershal had his gun on him too, I don't think that kid was going to take down two people with their guns aimed at him, his rifle was in one hand not even in a position too shoot. I have to say after carefully re-watching the scene, Carl "jumped the gun" on this one. Perhaps he has seen too many people given a chance, quickly turn to foe's. He has become jaded, even his reaction to the refugee's, his empathy levels are the lowest of the group now. He is just a kid, but has become a product of his environment, and it's a nasty one.

One thing this season has shown it is pure survival mode now, against both walkers and humans, especially those you don't know, and life morality has fallen fast.

 

[davejames]

I don't need zombie action all the time, I like good characterization and talky scenes but the Walking Dead doesn't offer that most of the time.
My favorite scenes of sundays third season premiere of Game of Thrones are people sitting at tables and talking to each other, almost the entire episode consisted of people sitting, standing or walking and talking to each other and it was awesome from start to finish.

Yeah, but to be fair the characters in Walking Dead aren't a bunch of politicians, lords, and noblemen jockeying for power and hatching elaborate plots against each other.

They're just a bunch of normal, everyday people who are trying to survive day by day, and who have the kind of simple and mundane conversations that real people probably WOULD have in that situation.

Personally, I think the show captures that feeling really well.

 

[Dream]

 

[ThunderAeroI]

So from a technical perspective, how does Hershel foot work? Do they need to shoot each scene he is in twice?

 

[sojourner]

Twice? No. they just digitally edit out the green sock. I am guessing (haven't really paid attention) that any scene involving Herschel from the waist down that they avoid camera movement to make it easier on the effects crew.

 

[Thestral]

That's a fun picture.

I went back and re-watched the scene, Hershal had his gun on him too, I don't think that kid was going to take down two people with their guns aimed at him, his rifle was in one hand not even in a position too shoot. I have to say after carefully re-watching the scene, Carl "jumped the gun" on this one. Perhaps he has seen too many people given a chance, quickly turn to foe's. He has become jaded, even his reaction to the refugee's, his empathy levels are the lowest of the group now. He is just a kid, but has become a product of his environment, and it's a nasty one.

Yep, Hershel was right.

 

[Mister Fandango]

Yep, Hershel was right.

Not even remotely.

It wasn't hard to tell what the kid's plan was. Overpower Carl and use him as a shield and bargaining chip. Classic TV tactic, especially when your opposition is a preteen kid and an old cripple. Doubly so when the old cripple is a delusional hippie who thinks the world is full of flowers and kitty cats. In fact, after watching it against just to make sure, there was absolutely no sign he had any intention of surrendering aside from his words. His body language said it all. He was trying to get Carl to grab his gun and then take advantage of the situation.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

totally agree, I'd even go so far as to say that Herschel totally misread what was going on with the kid Carl shot. He was seeing a teenage kid in the old world. Not a potential enemy in the real world.

But that's the point: Herschel saw the truth: the teenager was not some warrior, and he sure as hell was not Martinez or the Bowman. He was a kid on the run from an overwhelming situation he would never be prepared for--forced to be a soldier. He was running for his life, and Carl murdered him thanks to the attitude he reinforced to Rick later in the episode.

He believes killing to avoid being killed is the one and only mindset for the zombie world, despite examples of that behavior--played out in front of his face over the course of a year--failed. The Governor is a great example: he sent Merle to kill Michonne, but ended up kidnapping Maggie and Glen--setting the Woodbury raid (and multiple deaths) in motion.

If the Governor left Michonne alone, then no Merle to kidnap the couple, no raid, no deaths.

Shane murdered Randall in order to lure Rick into a death trap--for some moronic idea that only he was good for Lori and Carl, and how did that morally bankrupt, ends justifies the means ideology serve him?

The world changed, but if humanity is lost, then what is the point of continuing?

Embracing a nihilistic worldview is unnatural for a functioning, peaceful society, and Rick's group do seek to survive in peace, even while protecting themselves from threats.

 

[Mister Fandango]

But that's the point: Herschel saw the truth: the teenager was not some warrior, and he sure as hell was not Martinez or the Bowman.

No, he saw what he wanted to see; a defenseless, innocent young kid surrendering. But that's not what that combatant was doing, despite running away. It was painfully clear -- painfully clear -- that he was going to pull something. And even if he wasn't and was just being stupid, well, that's what happens to Stupid(tm) when in a warzone.

All he had to do was drop his weapon like he was ordered and he likely would have lived. Sure, Carl might have still shot him since he didn't have any means of securing a prisoner, but at least then Hershel would have something to back up his sob story.

 

[sojourner]

As the audience we know that he wasn't a seasoned combatant. He was an asthmatic kid that had only recently been handed a gun. This gives us the incite to realize that Herschel's reading of the situation was the correct one. He was a scared kid with a gun in his face who had no plans to "take advantage of the situation". If anything he was scared into inaction by the gun pointed at him.

 

[Mister Fandango]

<shrugs> Think what you will. Carl certainly wasn't the only person who read the situation that way.

 

[Zod]

I loved this episode. I loved the beginning the most. You kill or you die or you die and you kill. That whole intro was riveting. I had to rewind a couple of times to properly process my thoughts on it. David Morrisey is a great actor with great presence.

I can't wait till season four and what it will bring. I hope we see Morgan again too!