Deanna driving the ship...

[Lance]

Hope y'all had a happy Easter!

Just done a little TNG movie marathon over the weekend, one each night from Friday to Monday. For some reason all the little faults with GENS struck me this time around, whereas I surprised myself by actually quite liking INS (despite still thinking the story stinks).

Anyhoo...

What was it with Deanna driving the ship in GENS anyway? Of all the people on the bridge, Riker decides she needs to take the helm? I mean, there are other officers on bridge duty in the scene that survive the Klingon attack but we saw at the helm earlier in the movie (ensign chick wearing red). But he orders the counsellor to pilot the ship out of orbie? Wtf? Talk about preferential treatment.

In fact, Will doesn't really acquit himself very well in this battle. He seems on edge all the way through, and makes several key decisions that ultimately result in the Enterprise's destruction. I hate the way the ship lets off just one volley of phaser fire then starts turning about as if she's going to run away. The Klingons are pegging them with disruptor fire the whole time the 1707-D is sloooooowly turning around the opposite direction. I understand the dramatic licence needed to destroy the ship (if Riker... or Worf... or Data... just did the sensible thing about rotated the shield frequency they'd have not been able to introduce a new ship in the next movie), but at the very least I'd say Riker's command here is a complete disaster. It's a surprise he's still the first officer in the next movie, and not down on Deck 22 mopping the floors. While Deanna drives the ship up on the bridge.

But what say YOU?

 

[Robert Maxwell]

Wasn't she a Lieutenant Commander at that point? In other words, she may have been the most qualified and trained person on the bridge for that job, apart from Riker himself, who was too busy being in command.

Otherwise, I dunno, maybe they just wanted her actually doing something useful instead of sitting next to him, saying, "I feel great fear!"

 

[C.E. Evans]

She probably learned helm control as part of her bridge officer exam (in an emergency, a bridge officer might have to assume a vacated station rather than wait for someone from below decks to arrive there). Even Uhura took over the navigator's position in an episode of TOS.

 

[R. Star]

That's like expecting a doctor with rank of commander in the Navy to be able to pilot a submarine. They're different areas of training and it wouldn't make sense for that person to be called on to drive. It was just some nut at Paramount decided it was a good idea to put Sirtis at the helm for dramatic effect.

We've seen Riker and Picard both jump over the bannister to fire weapons while simultaneously staying in command and giving orders, so it's not as if it's unprecedented. Heck Picard captained the Enterprise from the helm specifically one episode.

Well big surprise, Troi crashes the ship. And before you say it's not her fault consider this. After the saucer separation, Riker told Troi to get them away. Also remember space is three dimensional. So for the shock of the explosion to force the saucer into the planet's atmosphere, Troi would have had to deliberately position them between the drive section and the planet. She simply could have flown... gosh... away from the planet.

 

[Marc]

That's like expecting a doctor with rank of commander in the Navy to be able to pilot a submarine. They're different areas of training and it wouldn't make sense for that person to be called on to drive. It was just some nut at Paramount decided it was a good idea to put Sirtis at the helm for dramatic effect.

A Navy doctor doesn't serve as a bridge officer nor do they take command officer training. They looked at the Troi doing the command training in a season 7 ep (it was pretty forgetable - I just remember the simulation scene where she has send La Forge to his death to seal a warp core problem)

Your point is more valid if Crusher was taking over but she pointed in Descent that command would pass to the lowest ensign in engineering before it passed to her

 

[Finn]

Wasn't she a Lieutenant Commander at that point? In other words, she may have been the most qualified and trained person on the bridge for that job, apart from Riker himself, who was too busy being in command.

Otherwise, I dunno, maybe they just wanted her actually doing something useful instead of sitting next to him, saying, "I feel great fear!"

Full Commander. Remma, Troi told Data to call her sir

 

[R. Star]

That's like expecting a doctor with rank of commander in the Navy to be able to pilot a submarine. They're different areas of training and it wouldn't make sense for that person to be called on to drive. It was just some nut at Paramount decided it was a good idea to put Sirtis at the helm for dramatic effect.

A Navy doctor doesn't serve as a bridge officer nor do they take command officer training. They looked at the Troi doing the command training in a season 7 ep (it was pretty forgetable - I just remember the simulation scene where she has send La Forge to his death to seal a warp core problem)

Your point is more valid if Crusher was taking over but she pointed in Descent that command would pass to the lowest ensign in engineering before it passed to her

That's my point. A doctor is never going to command a submarine no matter their rank. Nor is a therapist. The same applies to even driving one. You get specially trained for that. You don't just hand the controls over to anyone with a little rank.

 

[Marc]

That's like expecting a doctor with rank of commander in the Navy to be able to pilot a submarine. They're different areas of training and it wouldn't make sense for that person to be called on to drive. It was just some nut at Paramount decided it was a good idea to put Sirtis at the helm for dramatic effect.

A Navy doctor doesn't serve as a bridge officer nor do they take command officer training. They looked at the Troi doing the command training in a season 7 ep (it was pretty forgetable - I just remember the simulation scene where she has send La Forge to his death to seal a warp core problem)

Your point is more valid if Crusher was taking over but she pointed in Descent that command would pass to the lowest ensign in engineering before it passed to her

That's my point. A doctor is never going to command a submarine no matter their rank. Nor is a therapist. The same applies to even driving one. You get specially trained for that. You don't just hand the controls over to anyone with a little rank.

she's done command training which allows her to serve on the bridge with full rank of commander.

From Memory-Alpha

Troi attempted the Bridge Officer's test in 2370. Riker supervised the tests, and did not show any favoritism towards Deanna. After she attempted the engineering qualification several times without much luck, he told her the tests were canceled. However, he also gave her a hint which told her that the test was really about her ability to send a crewmember to his death. After successfully passing the test, Troi was promoted to the rank of Commander and began to include bridge command as part of her duty shifts.(TNG: "Thine Own Self") Troi would continue this role, on occasion, when posted to the USS Enterprise-E later in her career. (Star Trek: Insurrection)

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Deanna_Troi

The Starfleet bridge officer examination was a series of tests for Starfleet officers who wished to be able to take command, besides the command officers such as captain, first officer, second officer, and third officer. The test had many stages, but the final exam required the officer to make a choice that sent one person under their direct command to certain death. No one who failed the test could serve as a command officer on the bridge of a starship except in emergency situations.

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Bridge_Officer's_test

 

[R. Star]

I'm not questioning what happened. I'm questioning the sanity of the material that let it happened. Even in their own everyone is perfect universe that sort of had bad results.

 

[Dream]

That's my point. A doctor is never going to command a submarine no matter their rank. Nor is a therapist. The same applies to even driving one. You get specially trained for that. You don't just hand the controls over to anyone with a little rank.

They wanted to give Dr Crusher and Troi more to do as female characters.

Hey, the writers' hearts were in the right place...

At least they never took command while Riker and Data were on duty on the bridge.

 

[Lance]

That's like expecting a doctor with rank of commander in the Navy to be able to pilot a submarine. They're different areas of training and it wouldn't make sense for that person to be called on to drive. It was just some nut at Paramount decided it was a good idea to put Sirtis at the helm for dramatic effect.

It really just struck me as strange this time round. The helm officer croaks, and Riker's just like "Deanna, fly the ship!". I mean, there was nobody else on the bridge who could do it? Those twenty or so extras who were hanging around at the background stations?

I don't doubt that she might have some competency with it, especially after getting through the command training (I mean, these people can all fly shuttles, right?). But it's just really odd that she's the first person Riker thinks of. A rash, heat-of-the-moment decision on his part?

 

[C.E. Evans]

If the other personnel on the bridge were busy doing the jobs they were supposed to be doing there, but Troi was free and had helm training, then it makes sense for Riker to have Troi to take the helm.

 

[Timo]

So for the shock of the explosion to force the saucer into the planet's atmosphere, Troi would have had to deliberately position them between the drive section and the planet. She simply could have flown... gosh... away from the planet.

I don't see this as a biggie. We witness the saucer getting only a very short distance away before the core blows - it wouldn't make any difference if some other course were selected because the saucer would in any case still be sitting right next to the stardrive section, not having been able to make the course choice "count" yet.

OTOH, plunging into the atmosphere might be a valid tactic for protecting oneself from a nearby warp core explosion. That's the only "shadow" available anywhere near the kaboom, after all.

As for turning away when you are being pummeled... What could possibly be wrong with that? Turning doesn't detract from Riker's ability to fire back (except with bow torps, but we know that those can't be used at close quarters anyway - only Klingon Birds of Prey ever fire torpedoes point blank, and those green things never make a big bang like the Starfleet photorps), and it gets the wounded and still vulnerable throat of the ship away from the Klingons' line of fire.

Having Troi pilot the ship through the battle doesn't lend itself to excuses, though. Sorry.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[R. Star]

So for the shock of the explosion to force the saucer into the planet's atmosphere, Troi would have had to deliberately position them between the drive section and the planet. She simply could have flown... gosh... away from the planet.

I don't see this as a biggie. We witness the saucer getting only a very short distance away before the core blows - it wouldn't make any difference if some other course were selected because the saucer would in any case still be sitting right next to the stardrive section, not having been able to make the course choice "count" yet.

OTOH, plunging into the atmosphere might be a valid tactic for protecting oneself from a nearby warp core explosion. That's the only "shadow" available anywhere near the kaboom, after all.

As for turning away when you are being pummeled... What could possibly be wrong with that? Turning doesn't detract from Riker's ability to fire back (except with bow torps, but we know that those can't be used at close quarters anyway - only Klingon Birds of Prey ever fire torpedoes point blank, and those green things never make a big bang like the Starfleet photorps), and it gets the wounded and still vulnerable throat of the ship away from the Klingons' line of fire.

Having Troi pilot the ship through the battle doesn't lend itself to excuses, though. Sorry.

Timo Saloniemi

I didn't criticize Troi for turning around. Riker told her to get out of orbit, which pretty much does involve turning and one assumes the Bird of Prey is both faster and more maneuverable than the Enterprise anyways. If they wanted to get behind them, I suspect they could.

But the saucer separation scene, you clearly see the the saucer turning when it's flying away from the drive section.

Boy, if she had gone left instead they'd have been just fine. The shockwave of the drive blowing up didn't do anything more than just push them. And they did put some distance between them... as so.

And as we don't see the planet anywhere in this shot. She had to have been pretty much flying right towards it. So had she turned left when the separated, it would've pushed them away.

 

[Yoda]

And looking at the screen grabs she didn't even turn on her right blinker. Women drivers

 

[Timo]

And as we don't see the planet anywhere in this shot. She had to have been pretty much flying right towards it.

The lighting angles tell an odd and exciting story here. Apparently, the Soran/Picard action takes place smack in the middle of the daylight side of the planet, while the Klingons first fire on the E-D in a darker setting where the local star is somewhere behind the shoulders of the Klingons. This is where the final shot is fired, too, despite all the maneuvering; Troi perhaps keeps the fight near the dusk or dawn shadow of the planet to prevent Veridian IV inhabitants from seeing what is going on, amd then parks on the sunny side.

At the explosion scene, the sun is shining from the direction of the upper bow of the vessel - so one would think both left and right would be away from the planet, which would be falling somewhere behind the stardrive section, slightly to starboard. It's not necessarily the shockwave that sends the saucer into the atmosphere, but the subsequent fact that helm control goes offline - perhaps the rudder jammed to "over to starboard"?

Indeed, the shockwave might have been relatively insignificant in the end, as we don't see it physically harming the saucer, or alerting the two men down on the planet, or creating weather patterns, or anything like that.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[C.E. Evans]

The shockwave from the stardrive explosion was pretty significant, though. It was strong enough at that range to knock the saucer nose-down as well as take out its ability to steer at impulse speed. In mere seconds, Veridian III was in its flight path with no means of being able to veer away (bummer!). At that point, the only thing that could be done was Data diverting power to the maneuvering thrusters so that it landed level rather than bow-first.

 

[Saul]

The writers thought it would be more realistic if a woman crashed the ship.

 

[Melakon]

She just wasn't comfortable with right hand drive.

 

[Stoo]

Wait a sec guys, this is space. There's no air to carry a shockwave so all that's hitting the saucer is the gas and debris from the explosion itself. Is that going to carry enough momentum to push the saucer so hard its own engines can't compensate?

I'm not questioning what happened. I'm questioning the sanity of the material that let it happened. Even in their own everyone is perfect universe that sort of had bad results.

Honestly I'm okay with Troi at that stage being qualified to take the helm. I was more bothered by her being in charge in Disaster, before doing her Bridge Officer course.