if the enterprise had gotten there 3 seconds latter, would data have been charged with murder most likely, or think it woul dbe seen as justifiable given the circumstances.
In the most toys, if The enterpise got the 3 seconds latter
- Thread starter WesleysDisciple
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Charged by whom? Also Data can't touch him, so he can't restrain him. There's no stun setting and there's nothing stopping Kivas from going over and picking up the other disruptor. Data 'arrested' him, he refused. ZAP.
His actions would have been deemed justified. Fajo had enslaved him and was threatening the lives of innocent people to maintain that enslavement, and killing him was, to the best of his knowledge at the time, the only viable escape option.
Who's going to charge him? It's perfectly justifiable to kill your kidnapper. If anything Data took his own sweet time in getting to it. Even the guy with a few gigs of ethical programming said "this cannot continue." He was talking about his incarceration as much as he was Fajo's murderous control over his people. Fajo flat out said he was going to keep killing people.
Even if Data had agreed to be Fajo's toy, it still wouldn't have stopped Fajo from killing other crew if he felt like it. Data had to weigh up the consequences of not killing Fajo (risking the lives of his crew) or kill Fajo and save the rest of the crew.
His ethical subroutines told him that to have the least amount of bloodshed, killing Fajo was the best decision. Fortunately though, the Enterprise beamed them both out in time...
His ethical subroutines told him that to have the least amount of bloodshed, killing Fajo was the best decision. Fortunately though, the Enterprise beamed them both out in time...
Always wondered what happened to his ship after? Was it towed to a starbase and dealt with there? Did they leave his first officer in charge? Did Fajo even have a first officer?
Assuming it was actually his, I'm pretty sure after all his stolen goods were confiscated, his other material possessions were likely sold to cover legal penalties, & it sounded like the ENT-D crew began the whole process right then
I imagine he was ruined, as well as imprisoned. He really picked the wrong commodity to steal
Fajo's crew were probably all conscripted anyway, so I'm sure they were allowed to return to their homes.
I actually believe Data when he says that it was just a transporter malfunction after he beams back to the Enterprise. I think it would be a contradiction for him to kill someone when he said earlier on in the episode that he couldn't commit murder. Now, I know he also said that he has the capability of killing someone in self defence (not murder) but Kivas Fajo said that he wasn't going to harm Data, correctly identifying that Data couldn't actually kill him in that situation.
Also, Data cannot lie without the emotions chip (which afair hasn't been encountered at this point).
Also, Data cannot lie without the emotions chip (which afair hasn't been encountered at this point).
The best part of this episode was the ending. You know the episode made an impact when fans are still talking about it 20 years later!
By that standard Threshold is one of the best Trek episodes.
Can he not? He does in Clues. Admittedly he was ordered to by Picard, but I'm not sure if that's significant.
Fajo may not have had any ill intent against Data specifically, but that's not the point. Fajo clearly had intent to harm OTHERS, and specifically threatened to do so ("I'll just kill someone else," I believe he said).
So Data was naturally justified in firing at Fajo. Killing someone because they are a danger to other people (other than yourself) is still not murder.
The best part of this episode was the ending. You know the episode made an impact when fans are still talking about it 20 years later!
By that standard Threshold is one of the best Trek episodes.
heres a part of the legal problem the weapon data had been PRepared to use was NOT humane.
Not that the guy has much right to complain but it is a problem.
Not that the guy has much right to complain but it is a problem.
It's highly unlikely that Data can make a decision without weighing all of the options as well as the likely impact it'll have on himself. That microsecond it would have taken him to weigh his options and to pull the trigger Data KNEW that if killed Fajo he'd be free and could contact Starfleet/the Enterprise and get back home and that'd he have to suffer the consequences upon himself for his actions.
What Data did was pure self-defense/defense of others. If Riker can beam down and vaporize a woman trying to kill the leader of breakaway colony after only giving her a couple of warnings, I'm sure Data can vaporize a man who has just vaporized someone else and is holding sentient beings against their will.
The only problem here is the lie Data tells Riker back on the ship. And it IS a lie in the legal sense, Data with held information either through misdirection or omission. Yes "something" happened during transport that deactivated the weapon but that doesn't change the fact Data pulled the trigger to fire the weapon in the first place.
Just the same, I'm sure Data is full-on in the clear for his actions on the ship and what would have happened if the Enterprise arrived moments later.
What Data did was pure self-defense/defense of others. If Riker can beam down and vaporize a woman trying to kill the leader of breakaway colony after only giving her a couple of warnings, I'm sure Data can vaporize a man who has just vaporized someone else and is holding sentient beings against their will.
The only problem here is the lie Data tells Riker back on the ship. And it IS a lie in the legal sense, Data with held information either through misdirection or omission. Yes "something" happened during transport that deactivated the weapon but that doesn't change the fact Data pulled the trigger to fire the weapon in the first place.
Just the same, I'm sure Data is full-on in the clear for his actions on the ship and what would have happened if the Enterprise arrived moments later.
I'm not really disputing that he withheld the fact that he purposely fired, but the conversation was hardly legal in nature or even official. Riker didn't even put a question to him directly. It was an offhand remark, as in "Oh... by the by... O'Brien said the weapon was in a state of discharge"
"Perhaps something happened during transport" Yeah, something did happen. He pulled the trigger on that jerk's monkey ass,
Now, it's clear Riker was suspicious of that remark, & if he had followed up with "You know of no specific reason why it would have been discharging? Under that line of questioning, I'm betting Data would have admitted it
But Riker didn't pursue it... purposely. They both knew what that meant, & chose to let it be
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